Another OPM revision

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Genos is 7-B already tho

Not 10-Second Mode. Base Monster Association Genos can one-shot G5's true form and fight Psykojet but 10-second should be stronger too, we just don't know how.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

ONE was involved in writing the Season 1 and Season 2 OVAs actually. And he and Murata did the character designs for all the original monsters and characters from the Season 2 OVAs.

Source for the info above is The Season 2 Guide.

Using the OVAs is fine.

As pointed out the last time scaling Suiryu to Garou through the OVA was brought up:

1. Garou and Suiryu were fighting in a video game simulation, so there's no basis for them scaling, at least not in terms of strength.
2. At the climax, Garou threw a punch so quickly that the game froze up, whereas Suiryu's game was stable through the fight. You could argue that Suiryu simply was not trying to go as fast as Garou, but this still also puts a dent in the idea that they scale to each other in speed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

As pointed out the last time scaling Suiryu to Garou through the OVA was brought up:

I have no problem with them not scaling as it was a simulation where obviously only skill can be simulated, and even then the game couldn't simulate Garou when he went all out.

But I was just answering to the idea that "We can't use the OVAs."

We can't use the anime adaptation of the manga events because it's just that, an adaptation, and the original takes precedence, but I personally take no issue in using anime-original OVAs because, as original stories, ONE was actually much more involved in them than in the regular episodes. Same thing is true for Season 1.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Isn't Genos implied to be a Glass Cannon? He's power output is described as being very imbalanced.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah his durability in 10-second mode doesn't increase at all it seems. Which is why firing his beams nearly destroys his body and melts is arms. Also why the 10-second limit exists at all, if he uses it for more than 10 seconds he will overheat and die.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I think I agree with Matt here actually.

 

[FinePoint]

I agree with Matt. While the anime can't be used for anything, the OVAs are directly approved by ONE and can probably be used.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Assuming snail speed every time a character says another is "barely moving" is such wank holy shit.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

What is that referring to?

 

[Axxtentacle]

There's a whole thread about "barely moving" calcs using snail speed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

A calc using the scene where Garou dodges showerhead. It pulls some random blog calc from the early 2000s that gets a supersonic speed for high-pressure jet streams and then because garou says it was "barely moving" from his perspective it gets sub-relativistic. I think its wank.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think the sub-rel calc is wack imo. But we should probably call in a calc member for good measure

 

[LordTracer]

I fail to see why Genos would be Low 6-B. Genos being Low 6-B would make him nearly 64,000x weaker than Psykorochi, when he very clearly isn’t considering his Piercing Lightning Cannon can briefly clash with her, and he can deflect her blasts with unnamed attacks.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

They're also a lot further intio High 6-A, I doubt downscaling is a good idea

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I fail to see why Genos would be Low 6-B. Genos being Low 6-B would make him nearly 64,000x weaker than Psykorochi, when he very clearly isn’t considering his Piercing Lightning Cannon can briefly clash with her, and he can deflect her blasts with unnamed attacks.

If you know how physics works, deflecting something by hitting it from a tangencial angle to divert its trajectory takes significantly less energy than stopping it upfront. You can see this blatantly in real life in how, say, it's FAR easier to turn a moving car to the side than it is to stop it dead on its tracks.

Those unammed attacks clashes with tiny beams that weren't High 6-A.

 

[LordTracer]

I just realized Ugarik’s calc hasn’t been accepted yet.

Even with the current calc, Genos being Low 6-B would make him almost 1,500x weaker than Psykos when he clearly isn’t.

If you know how physics works, deflecting something by hitting it from a tangencial angle to divert its trajectory takes significantly less energy than stopping it upfront. You can see this blatantly in real life in how, say, it's FAR easier to turn a moving car to the side than it is to stop it dead on its tracks.

Okay, but we’re not talking about turning a moving car. We’re talking about a cyborg smacking away an energy blast and also directly clashing with said energy blasts on more than one occasion. So again, Genos being Low 6-B does not fit with what was actually shown in the manga.

Also can you even quantify how much energy Genos deflecting her blast (which by the way, he only did once while he clashed with her head-on several times) would be?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Be honest.

Do you actually think Genos' unnamed back and finger beams are High 6-A because they clashes with Psykos or Orochi's dragons similarly small and unfocused beams in a single panel that drove no attention to the clash. Do you think those small beams form Psykos were comparable to the wide, focused attack she gives to Tatsumaki where the beam is fired at an arc that covers hundreds of miles in width and planetary distancces

Do you think that Genos' charged, named Thunder Drill Cannon only deflecting Psykos' beam and Genos being stunned at how little he could do, while he actually comments on the actual intended scale of that attack, is also High 6-A, when it is blatantly shown to be much weaker than Psykos' own attack with how it left him almost exhausted for a moment.

Do you think Genos commenting that Psykos' continent-splitting beam had an "immeasurable energy" with him not even being able to comprehend it makes sense if he has comparable power.

Why do you think that the True Spiral Incineration Cannon, where Genos directly clashes with a charged big energy beam from Psykos and exhausts all his energy is such a big deal, because it's his ultimate move?

None of that makes sense if you seriously believe Genos is just HIgh 6-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay, but we’re not talking about turning a moving car. We’re talking about a cyborg smacking away an energy blast and also directly clashing with said energy blasts on more than one occasion. So again, Genos being Low 6-B does not fit with what was actually shown in the manga.

Also can you even quantify how much energy Genos deflecting her blast (which by the way, he only did once while he clashed with her head-on several times) would be?

The energy beams still have mass. Genos would be shooting heated plasma or some other sort of projectile. The fact that they can curve based on impact also indicates that they're not weightless and can be moved.

Low 6-B Genos is literally what's stated. You have to ignore the actual written text of the manga to lie it.

And no, you cannot quantify it which is why it is meaningless to bring it up as a parameter.

Even with the current calc, Genos being Low 6-B would make him almost 1,500x weaker than Psykos when he clearly isn’t.

Seems pretty reasonable to me. He could barely affect her at all with any of his blows and even his strongest attack only stopped a single blast.

How weaker he is than her is completely irrelevant. Genos was a nuisance that only served as a distraction if you actually read the fight. He could be 10 times, 100 times, 1000 times, 10,000 times weaker and it would serve the same purpose. Genos is severely outmatched and way over his depth and all he can do is buy Tatsumaki time while risking his life giving all he has to stop a casual blast from Psykos.

 

[Kin201]

I disagree with Garou scaling to Genos' physically. His kick did nothing to Genos.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I have to sleep, however, hope to continue to Genos debate tomorrow.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

He ripped Genos' arm off forcefully and was able to contend with him in a p0hysical match?

 

[Kin201]

He deflected his blows, and the only scene he actually harmed him is when he ripped his arm.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That's still enough to scale tho. He still was able tank blows from Genos

 

[LordTracer]

None of that makes sense if you seriously believe Genos is just HIgh 6-A.

When exactly did I say Genos was just High 6-A?

The energy beams still have mass. Genos would be shooting heated plasma or some other sort of projectile. The fact that they can curve based on impact also indicates that they're not weightless and can be moved.

Low 6-B Genos is literally what's stated. You have to ignore the actual written text of the manga to lie it.

And no, you cannot quantify it which is why it is meaningless to bring it up as a parameter.

Sure, it’s what’s stated even though you’re just assuming it’s the same meteor and it’s not actually stated to be, but actual feats put Genos higher.

You’re the one that brought it, mate, so you’re calling your own point meaningless.

Do you think Genos commenting that Psykos' continent-splitting beam had an "immeasurable energy" with him not even being able to comprehend it makes sense if he has comparable power.

Scans of this being stated? And I literally never said Genos was comparable, I stated the fact that he can clash with her.

Seems pretty reasonable to me. He could barely affect her at all with any of his blows and even his strongest attack only stopped a single blast.

That’s blatantly incorrect. Matching beams, deflecting a blast and clashing with her is not “barely affecting.” And even if it was, literally none of that would be possible if Genos was damn near 1,500x weaker than her.

How weaker he is than her is completely irrelevant. Genos was a nuisance that only served as a distraction if you actually read the fight. He could be 10 times, 100 times, 1000 times, 10,000 times weaker and it would serve the same purpose.

No, it really wouldn’t. You can’t be 10,000x weaker than someone and deflect their attacks, that’s not how Attack Potency works. You should know that. If Genos was 10,000x weaker, hell, even if he was ten times weaker, Psykorochi’s blasts would’ve gone straight through his.

The majority of the essay in your second comment is irrelevant because you’re assuming I’m claiming Genos is High 6-A with every attack, which I never said. His current tiering of 6-A+ is fine and consistent with his actual feats.

 

[Ourosboros]

I agree with most of the changes.

Except the Darkshine/Kabuto downgrade, his attack against Psykorochi did more damage than Bang and Bomb, he was able to damage Spiral Garou who was two zenkai boosts stronger than the Garou who survived Rover's attacks and he's stated to be one of the twin pillars of the hero world, somebody Atomic Samurai, Puri Puri, Amai Mask, etc all think is invincible in a one-on-one fight judging by their reactions to his loss to Garou. I would certain scale him around Bang and Bomb's CFDSF and his durability even higher.

In fact, I think Darkshine's durability should be "at least 7-B, possibly 7-A+" because Spiral Garou only gave him a nosebleed and a little internal damage despite targeting his pressure points with at least 7-B attacks.

Also, I prefer the "at least High 7-C+, Low 7-B with WSRSF" version of Garou. I don't think he's physically comparable to Genos even if he can rip off the arm (which was still retachable, so he probably tore it along a seam and Genos may have also allowed him to do so in order to lure him in again).

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm overall neutral on the darkshine and Kabuto stuff, but you made good points.

I don't really fully agree with the Garou stuff, mainly because:

3. The Garou that fought Genos is not the same as the Garou we see when he fights TTM. This due to the reason Garou states that Post Superfight Genos = TTM. And during the Garou vs TTM fight, Garou was clearly getting wrecked up until he used WSRSF, a technique that attacks pressure point and redirects attacks. And we see the supposed "weaker" forest Garou that fought against Post-Superfight Genos, who is on par with TTM, and was wrecking Garou up until Garou used WSRSF. Garou also is known to get stronger the more he fights.

The weakened Garou fared a lot better against Genos (Who is equal to TTM) then the Garou that battled against TTM before he used WSRSF.

 

[Phoenks]

That new Garou profile has a sexy p&a section lol

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Very juicy indeed

Garou is arguably the most haxxed OPM character

 

[Phoenks]

He has no hax though lol.

He's the Yujiro Hanma of the OPM verse.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I mean in terms of abilities, he does have the most arguably. Anyway, as of now Garou's rating should look something like this:

Tier: At least High 7-C, Low 7-B with Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist, up to Low 7-B | Low 7-B, up to at least 7-B, possibly 7-A

Garou only has Low 7-B, possibly 7-A dura for his Low 7-B half monster counterpart.

 

[Kin201]

I mean his AP should be comparable to his durability right? It is weird to me that his AP is Low 7-B whereas his durability is 7-A.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

No, he doesn't have Low 7-B, possibly 7-A dura, only Low 7-B AP

 

[Phoenks]

???? His dura should definitely be the same as his AP.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

No? His dura comes from downscaling from rover, who he managed to survive attacks from. His Low 7-B+ AP comes from being superior to HEO

 

[Phoenks]

Yes, but why wouldn't his durability be comparable to his AP and vice versa? To me, it seems that Garou has always been balanced in offense and defense...

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I dunno, but afaik:

Dura scales to your AP, but AP doesn't scale to your dura

 

[Kin201]

Yeah. Garou's durability and AP always balanced. It makes no sense for his AP to be that far below his own durability. He is not Darkshine.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Yeah. Garou's durability and AP always balanced. It makes no sense for his AP to be that far below his own durability. He is not Darkshine.

Where is that stated?

 

[Kin201]

It doesn't really need to be stated. Garou's AP always matches his durability. He once punched Bug God, and his hand broke and bled upon contacting its skin, it showed that he could hurt himself with his own attacks.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That was before he was Low 7-B+, we're not talking about Human Garou, we're talking about Half-Monster Garou