Anos VS Dante

[Dereck03]

Anyway, the Anos supporters seem to be suggesting that Dante doesn't have any wincon at all due to all his hax being no-selled, right?

You guys are arguing Madness hax at first move and we are arguing Venuzdonoa conceptual nuke, Dante just gets ´permanently killed by Venuz, after that just Anos remains.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Bro it has been 8 pages of arguments, fights and memes, just let this end.

That's what I'm suggesting. If Dante wins via passive madness hax it ends, and if Anos stomps via resisting everything, it ends.

You guys are arguing Madness hax at first move and we are arguing Venuzdonoa conceptual nuke, Dante just gets ´permanently killed by Venuz, after that just Anos remains.

I realize you have every reason to be on edge with me right now, but I'd like to humbly request you relax a little, and yes, I'm aware I currently have no room to talk. I honestly think this versus thread is bad for both verses.

Back to the arguments, the madness hax is passive, so in my opinion we're down to two outcomes. If the madness hax works, Dante wins. If it doesn't, then Anos has left Dante no wincons and the fight is a stomp in Anos' favour. Either way, it ends.

So, does the madness hax offer any wincon, in your opinion?

 

[Dereck03]

I realize you have every reason to be on edge with me right now, but I'd like to humbly request you relax a little, and yes, I'm aware I currently have no room to talk. I honestly think this versus thread is bad for both verses.

Wtf? why do you ask me to relax or what reasons do you have to say that I have you on edge? When have I ever interacted with you? now just talking or debating means I'm not calm?

Back to the arguments, the madness hax is passive, so in my opinion we're down to two outcomes. If the madness hax works, Dante wins. If it doesn't, then Anos has left Dante no wincons and the fight is a stomp in Anos' favour. Either way, it ends.

Both moves are passives, Madness hax and Venuz Conceptual destruction, Anos gets madness hax and Dante gets destroyed at same time, if Anos is killed he can just regenerate back and you guys havent prove that the Madness can still affecting after Mid-Gody or High-Godly regeneration, anyway, not debating with you, and will just wait for the Grace.

 

[Dog3352]

So, does the madness hax offer any wincon, in your opinion?

What is a wincon? Victory by incapacitation?

If the Fear/Madness Manipulation is able to hit Anos, then Venuzdonoa acts passively at the same time to kill Dante, even if the Fear/Madness Manipulation works on Anos and he kills himself, he would come back with high-godly regeneration and stay alive .

 

[Random-Helper323]

Wtf? why do you ask me to relax or what reasons do you have to say that I have you on edge? When have I ever interacted with you? now just talking or debating means I'm not calm?

I guess the memes gave me the impression things had turned hostile.

Both moves are passives, Madness hax and Venuz Conceptual destruction, Anos gets madness hax and Dante gets destroyed at same time, if Anos is killed he can just regenerate back and you guys havent prove that the Madness can still affecting after Mid-Gody or High-Godly regeneration, anyway, not debating with you, and will just wait for the Grace.

Does regeneration really answer type 3 madness?

What is a wincon? Victory by incapacitation?

If the Fear/Madness Manipulation is able to hit Anos, then Venuzdonoa acts passively at the same time to kill Dante, even if the Fear/Madness Manipulation works on Anos and he kills himself, he would come back with high-godly regeneration and stay alive .

Thanks for answering, again. A wincon is often used as shorthand for a "winning condition". And yes, it sounds like if Dante supporters are right it's either a Dante win or inconclusive, and if Anos supporters are right it's a stomp. Both verses are due for revisions which would upgrade them though, so it seems kind of ill-timed.

Edit: Anyway, let's just leave this and ignore it. Hopefully we can all help add good things to both verses in the future. And at least we can take comfort knowing that if Dante and Anos actually met, they'd get on pretty well.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Does regeneration really answer type 3 madness?

He will just regenerate after the source of the madness hax is gone, that's the point he's trying to make.

Thanks for answering, again. A wincon is often used as shorthand for a "winning condition". And yes, it sounds like if Dante supporters are right it's either a Dante win or inconclusive, and if Anos supporters are right it's a stomp. Both verses are due for revisions which would upgrade them though, so it seems kind of ill-timed.

I said this at some point already. Both are due for revisions, their first moves basically decide the match either ending in a stomp or inconclusive.
This thread should honestly be closed considering these factors in addition to the fact that it's now a battle of votes and I'm not comfortable with adding it to either of the profiles regardless of the result

 

[Eseseso]

Switching Anos due to his high-godly meaning that he can survive suicide from madness hax.

 

[RM97]

Voting for Anos

 

[Vzearr]

Anos.

 

[Robo432343]

this is a necro but does Dante stomp now? he has more than like 20 layers of 4-D hax accepted, a lot of which are passive

Anos’ doesn’t have high godly regen anymore and the regen being passive got downgraded
so now Anos gets incapped

 

[Dog3352]

this is a necro but does Dante stomp now? he has more than like 20 layers of 4-D hax accepted, a lot of which are passive

Anos’ doesn’t have high godly regen anymore and the regen being passive got downgraded
so now Anos gets incapped

If he has CM type 1 and regeneration negation, the reasons why Anos wins are probably the same.
Venuzdonoa has CM type 1 and AE in CM type 1, which Dante was unable to affect or resist, and Venuzdonoa is able to regenerate him with High Godly Regeneraion, and the regeneration still works the same way (but with cure), Anos continues to "regenerate", unless Dante has High Godly (cure) negation.

 

[Tanin_iver]

this is a necro but does Dante stomp now? he has more than like 20 layers of 4-D hax accepted, a lot of which are passive

Anos’ doesn’t have high godly regen anymore and the regen being passive got downgraded
so now Anos gets incapped

Pretty sure Dante didn't have to rely on layers the last time and still doesn't. Anos doesn't have an answer to Passive Madness Type 3(for now), so he gets incapped immediately.

 

[Dog3352]

Pretty sure Dante didn't have to rely on layers the last time and still doesn't. Anos doesn't have an answer to Passive Madness Type 3(for now), so he gets incapped immediately.

It was Anos who won here, Anos can still regenerate, as has already been discussed for entire pages.

 

[Tanin_iver]

It was Anos who won here, Anos can still regenerate, as has already been discussed for entire pages.

There is nothing to regenerate here, he has lost his sanity, that is a wincon.

 

[Dog3352]

There is nothing to regenerate here, he has lost his sanity, that is a wincon.

Passive regeneration, and Venuzdonoa is still unaffected if Dante doesn't have CM type 1.
If you haven't even read what was discussed, don't comment as if you knew, this has already been discussed for a few pages.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Passive regeneration, and Venuzdonoa is still unaffected if Dante doesn't have CM type 1.
If you haven't even read what was discussed, don't comment as if you knew, this has already been discussed for a few pages.

It was FRAd to oblivion while the discussion was going on. I am aware of his Mid Godly Regeneration. That has no bearing on Anos and Venuz getting Madness Haxxed instantly.

 

[Dog3352]

It was FRAd to oblivion while the discussion was going on. I am aware of his Mid Godly Regeneration. That has no bearing on Anos and Venuz getting Madness Haxxed instantly.

Venuz is not hit by Madness Hax if Venuz has AE 1 in CM1.
If you're on CTR just to repeat things we've already talked about on previous pages, then just keep quiet.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Venuz is not hit by Madness Hax if she has AE 1 in CM1.
If you're on CTR just to repeat things we've already talked about on previous pages, then just keep quiet.

Madness Type 3 doesn't care about AE or HDE etc. Because the target self inflicts the effects due to cognition, the character doesn't have to forcefully affect the mind.

Abilities where the target affects themselves: Fully durability circumventing abilities where the target does something to make them affect themself. The most typical example would be Madness Manipulation Type 3, where the act of perceiving the user is what "delivers" the effect to the target.

 

[Dog3352]

Madness Type 3 doesn't care about AE or HDE etc. Because the target self inflicts the effects due to cognition, the character doesn't have to forcefully affect the mind.

This isn't getting around AE1, I don't know where you got that from, it's just talking about how it makes the character affect themselves and not that it gets around something like CM1 in AE1.

Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Madness Type 3 doesn't care about AE or HDE etc. Because the target self inflicts the effects due to cognition, the character doesn't have to forcefully affect the mind.

It's important how it functions and its practical applications. Claiming it can affect beyond its known capabilities is considered NLF. Just like character A's ability to induce madness in normal humans doesn't imply it can also affect abstract entities without demonstrated feats, suggesting otherwise falls into the realm of NLF. It's necessity of concrete evidence or feats to support any claims about a character's abilities.

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah Anos loses now, especially now that HGR has been changed so now his regen is only mid-godly.

And yes, this stuff affects souls, which have AE1, so it's hitting Anos.

 

[Tanin_iver]

This isn't getting around AE1, I don't know where you got that from, it's just talking about how it makes the character affect themselves and not that it gets around something like CM1 in AE1.

It's important how it functions and its practical applications. Claiming it can affect beyond its known capabilities is considered NLF. Just like character A's ability to induce madness in normal humans doesn't imply it can also affect abstract entities without demonstrated feats, suggesting otherwise falls into the realm of NLF. It's necessity of concrete evidence or feats to support any claims about a character's abilities.

It has nothing to do with getting around something at all or even NLF. It is simply the target affects themselves due to the act of simply perceiving. Nothing more. If the character resists Madness Type 3, its resists it.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Yeah Anos loses now, especially now that HGR has been changed so now his regen is only mid-godly.

He still has High Godly it's just changed to healing and it is automatically activated.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It has nothing to do with getting around something at all or even NLF. It is simply the target affects themselves due to the act of simply perceiving. Nothing more. If the character resists Madness Type 3, its resists it.

There are rules in this site you don't get new abilities just because you feel like it. AE type 1 with soul ≠ AE type 1 with CM or information. All are different abilities. You need to prove your character can affect other types too. Otherwise it's clearly falls under NLF. You can make a Staff thread or ask some staffs who are knowledgeable on the topic they would say the same.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah Anos loses now, especially now that HGR has been changed so now his regen is only mid-godly.

And yes, this stuff affects souls, which have AE1, so it's hitting Anos.

Soul based AE type 1 ≠ Information based AE type 1 ≠ CM based AE type 1. All are different types. Without feats one can't affect another.

 

[Dog3352]

Yeah Anos loses now, especially now that HGR has been changed so now his regen is only mid-godly.

And yes, this stuff affects souls, which have AE1, so it's hitting Anos.

It's still High Godly, and Venuzdonoa can also regenerate (passive) Anos.

 

[Dog3352]

It has nothing to do with getting around something at all or even NLF. It is simply the target affects themselves due to the act of simply perceiving. Nothing more. If the character resists Madness Type 3, its resists it.

If it were that simple, all skills that aim to directly affect the target could bypass NEP2, AE1, ACC5, etc.

 

[Tanin_iver]

There are rules in this site you don't get new abilities just because you feel like it. AE type 1 with soul ≠ AE type 1 with CM or information. All are different abilities. You need to prove your character can affect other types too. Otherwise it's clearly falls under NLF. You can make a Staff thread or ask some staffs who are knowledgeable on the topic they would say the same.

I am not here trying to argue the act of perceiving something is different for everyone, you are. You need to prove the claim that the act of perceiving which is literally irrelevant to whether u are Soul or Information or Concept is different in this case. This ability is fully durability circumventing because the character is not forcibly trying to induce its effects, the target is self inducing it to themselves. Its not that complicated to understand this.

 

[Tanin_iver]

If it were that simple, all skills that aim to directly affect the target could bypass NEP2, AE1, ACC5, etc.

Aca 5 won't work, because it transcends Causality itself. NEP with mind or some other form of mindlessness also wont be affected, afaik.

 

[LazerDim8000]

What particular AE is being argued here? All souls in DMC are AE type 1. Demons are also abstract and it doesn’t even seem that anos himself is fully abstract so his mind is going to be affected and neither
regeneration, healing nor his venuzdonoa matters if its wielder is going insane from layered madness type 3 hax.

 

[Dog3352]

I am not here trying to argue the act of perceiving something is different for everyone, you are. You need to prove the claim that the act of perceiving which is literally irrelevant to whether u are Soul or Information or Concept is different in this case. This ability is fully durability circumventing because the character is not forcibly trying to induce its effects, the target is self inducing it to themselves. Its not that complicated to understand this.

This is just becoming a joke at this point, you're basically saying that any ability that contorn Theo durability can ignore things like AE1, when the point of AE1 is exactly to not be affected by the ability without bypassing/affect the abstraction.

Think Tanin_iver, think.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I am not here trying to argue the act of perceiving something is different for everyone, you are. You need to prove the claim that the act of perceiving which is literally irrelevant to whether u are Soul or Information or Concept is different in this case. This ability is fully durability circumventing because the character is not forcibly trying to induce its effects, the target is self inducing it to themselves. Its not that complicated to understand this.

Well that's not how it works. Without feats you can't equate them together.

 

[Dog3352]

What particular AE is being argued here? All souls in DMC are AE type 1. Demons are also abstract and it doesn’t even seem that anos himself is fully abstract so his mind is going to be affected and neither
regeneration, healing nor his venuzdonoa matters if its wielder is going insane from layered madness type 3 hax.

The abstraction is for CM1, which DMC doesn't have, so no, it can't affect it (and it's for Venuz, not Anos).

 

[Tanin_iver]

Think Tanin_iver, think.

When the act of thinking cause the ability to be affected, does it matter if u are AE1 CM1? Does a character with AE doesn't think?

 

[Dog3352]

When the act of thinking cause the ability to be affected, does it matter if u are AE1 CM1? Does a character with AE doesn't think?

You have to overcome abstraction to affect the character's mind, didn't you read the damn AE1 page? Or the explanation I sent?
Venuzdonoa is a concept in itself.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

When the act of thinking cause the ability to be affected, does it matter if u are AE1 CM1? Does a character with AE doesn't think?

To the range which he can do it does matters. If cant effect CM1 AE1 in his verse then he won't be effecting them in others too.

 

[Eseseso]

The abstraction is for CM1, which DMC doesn't have, so no, it can't affect it (and it's for Venuz, not Anos).

How is an abstraction a type 1 concept and not type 3?

 

[Dog3352]

How is an abstraction a type 1 concept and not type 3?

With the concept being type 1, the order of destruction (which is the concept of Venuzdonoa, or Venuzdonoa itself in this case) is a CM type 1.

 

[Tanin_iver]

You have to overcome abstraction to affect the character's mind, didn't you read the damn AE1 page? Or the explanation I sent?

For the last time this isn't Madness Type 2, that needs to affect the target, this is Type 3, the target affects themself. Dante is not affecting Anos, Anos is affecting himself by perceiving Dante. Did u get the explanation now. This is why it is called a fully durability circumventing ability because the character is not trying to induce the affects in the first place. Like how many times do I have to explain this, Anos sees Dante, he gets haxxed thats it.

 

[Dog3352]

For the last time this isn't Madness Type 2, that needs to affect the target, this is Type 3, the target affects themself. Dante is not affecting Anos, Anos is affecting himself by perceiving Dante. Did u get the explanation now. This is why it is called a fully durability circumventing ability because the character is not trying to induce the affects in the first place. Like how many times do I have to explain this, Anos sees Dante, he gets haxxed thats it.

Firstly, no one said anything about Arnos, but about Venuzdonoa.
Secondly, AE1 is literally about the character itself being an abstraction, and if you want to affect the character, you need to affect the abstraction, how the hell is something that drives a person crazy affecting a LITERAL CONCEPT?

AE1 is basically an "unconventional residence", if a character has an unconventional resistance to Mind Manipulation via having something conceptual acting as a natural shield around their mind, how the hell will Mind Manipulation affect the mind with a conceptual shield protecting it ?

AE1 is basically an abstraction shield against haxs that don't affect the abstraction itself.

If you want to affect the character's mind or whatever, you have to go through the abstraction first, or affect the abstraction itself (which is the case with Venuz).