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Anne Mayer vs Sub-Zero
- Thread starter Kisaragi_Megumi
- Start date
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Bump for 2 votes
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- Thread starter
- #44
I want people arguing Sub-Zero tbh
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I mean, neither Bambu of Schnee seemingly disagreed with what was said. Bambu was the one to mostly give the reasons rather.
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I want to see these absurd skill feats for myself, I haven't heard alot about this character besides her abilities. I've seen a few skill feats but not all
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To summarize, Anne is part of an organization of fighters drawn from every world possible that humanity inhabits across the universe. Yo even enter, you already must be a prodigy. But these prodigies are likely to be killed by even the lowest ranks of the beasts they must fight. Above the Trainees are the actual Knights that have been recognized and have shown their worth. Then there's the Master Knights to who normal Knights are as fodder. And above those rank the Cold Heroes, cryogenically sleeping Knights of old considered far too valuable to just let die and so preserved until the right time. Even these very Cold Heroes have seen Anne and consider her an incomparable monster, despite the fact this was while she's weakened from her prime and pushing herself closer to death just by fighting. Not to mention almost effortlessly dealing with very high ranking Knights and Master Knights despite making sure not to kill any of them.
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Damn, i think i reached a point where im seriously not needed anymore lol.
To give more context for what @Lancelot said, Cold Heroes are the actual strongest asset Knight Order possess. They are the actual haxxed bunch, monsters in strength, skill, experience and abilitys. One for example could laugh off getting hist torso ripped apart, another could freeze entire battlefields with no effort, while another one could pull entire AG fleets through his electricity manip with a single gesture. All of them saw their fair share of planetary wars throughout their time.
Anne is above them. In fact, Anne is so above them, that Dry Leonhard, someone who trained himself in Discount Almighty, just to face Pray, believed that himself and his entire Cold Hero army had a lower sucess chance against Pray than Anne. And not by being stronger. Anne is considered physically average at best, while her speed isnt anything special at all either, she got blitzed multiple times in the series. It is done via raw skill. She became the second greatest Knight in humanitys history through nothing but raw skill.
To give more context for what @Lancelot said, Cold Heroes are the actual strongest asset Knight Order possess. They are the actual haxxed bunch, monsters in strength, skill, experience and abilitys. One for example could laugh off getting hist torso ripped apart, another could freeze entire battlefields with no effort, while another one could pull entire AG fleets through his electricity manip with a single gesture. All of them saw their fair share of planetary wars throughout their time.
Anne is above them. In fact, Anne is so above them, that Dry Leonhard, someone who trained himself in Discount Almighty, just to face Pray, believed that himself and his entire Cold Hero army had a lower sucess chance against Pray than Anne. And not by being stronger. Anne is considered physically average at best, while her speed isnt anything special at all either, she got blitzed multiple times in the series. It is done via raw skill. She became the second greatest Knight in humanitys history through nothing but raw skill.
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Hmm guess it's my turn
Sub-Zero trained in the Lin Kuei to hone his ice powers and also learned his martial art techniques and ninjutsu (which is a staple for all Lin Kuei assassins) all the way to adulthood and has never stopped training ever since. Thanks to that, he has defeated many skilled kombatants as soon as he entered the MK tournament in search of his brother's killer. These people include:
I think that's all I can think of for Sub-Zero's skill. Hope that's enough.
Sub-Zero trained in the Lin Kuei to hone his ice powers and also learned his martial art techniques and ninjutsu (which is a staple for all Lin Kuei assassins) all the way to adulthood and has never stopped training ever since. Thanks to that, he has defeated many skilled kombatants as soon as he entered the MK tournament in search of his brother's killer. These people include:
- Ermac, a fusion of thousands of Edenian warriors who have battle experience of over thousands of years fighting back against Shao Kahn in a MK tournament that happened many years ago. He's portrayed as a jobber in the current timeline (which is honestly PIS) but his feats are really overlooked and this dude was able to hold back many skilled fighters by himself. Check the justification of his AP for reference. Sub-Zero beating this guy also means that he has experience with people who use telekinesis and sorcery in character.
- Goro, a Shokan warrior prince who has won nine tournaments for Outworld. Probably one of the best opponents he has fought. His brutish look is very misleading once you get to know his feats. He is described as possessing massive strength and great agility coupled with the fact that no one who has fought him (until the Shaolin twins) has reported any weakness in his fighting style. These may all seem hype at first, but he has feats to prove this. He defeated the Great Kung Lao, who was able to beat a younger Shang Tsung. This Shang Tsung uses the fictional martial art known as Snake which is a culmination of different fighting styles such as jojutsu, kenjutsu and several other Chinese fighting styles. He also assisted Shao Kahn in conquering vast realms such as the realm of the Osh-Tekk whose children can even master their sun powers at a young age, often making devastating results out of it. Even without all of his arms, he's still a formidable opponent as he can beat Kenshi (a master swordsman whose skill caught the attention of Shang Tsung. For reference, he is an itinerant swordsman who has travelled the world and defeated pretty much anyone who challenges him even after he went blind) and does this without a single scratch on his skin. Besides combat skill, he's literate too but I doubt that matters much here. Sub-Zero beat this guy after being turned into a cyborg and after regaining a higher brain function, implying that he now has access to more complex thoughts.
- Reptile. Not very impressive in terms of skill due to being a jobber, but he is still worth mentioning because of his stealth capablities. He is extremely agile thanks to his reptilian traits and frequently uses stealth attacks by means of becoming completely invisible to the point where he can conceal the sound of his footsteps on creaky wood. I included him to say that stealth attacks isn't going to work on Sub-Zero just in case this gets brought up.
- I'd also like to point out that Sub-Zero has fought teleport users before such as Scorpio and Sektor. These two love abusing their teleport attacks from different angles and yet Sub-Zero is able to keep up with these two.
I think that's all I can think of for Sub-Zero's skill. Hope that's enough.
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That;s incredibly extensive, yes. But I'd still have to say I give Anne the skill advantage here.
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Hold up I also haven't seen much of Anne's notable abilities yet
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Well, what do you need to know?
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a l l o f t h e m
To be specific, the abilities she uses IC
To be specific, the abilities she uses IC
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Alright.
She will firstly engage her enemy in close quarter, either trying to instantly one shot him or if she cant, bombard him with Wave attacks. The lazer kind, because her Sword is constantly embued with Waves. Waves are her powernull and her biggest range game, they can cover multiple city blocks with a single swing.
Depending on how dangerous she believes Sub Zero is, she would activate Key Sword and turn the entire battlefield into Human Age. Now she can conjure AB swords freely in this field. SZ would now have to deal Omnidirectional Danmaku, big shields that comes out of nowhere and lances that distort space upon strikes.
Anne runs around with a 2 layer of dura, her own and her passive DC Coat that generates a barrier around her. AB Swords have the property of straight up canceling other Forcefields. They have done so with biological Forcefields and mechanicals forcefields.
Her "mindreading" is reading the melody of your body (Dont ask me what the melody is, its not expanded on), allowing her predict and read enemy intent. She dosnt need eye contact or anything, you only need to be near her. It allowed her to counter attacks from people who blitz her and from someone who could vector manip his spear in unpredictable angles with ease.
She will firstly engage her enemy in close quarter, either trying to instantly one shot him or if she cant, bombard him with Wave attacks. The lazer kind, because her Sword is constantly embued with Waves. Waves are her powernull and her biggest range game, they can cover multiple city blocks with a single swing.
Depending on how dangerous she believes Sub Zero is, she would activate Key Sword and turn the entire battlefield into Human Age. Now she can conjure AB swords freely in this field. SZ would now have to deal Omnidirectional Danmaku, big shields that comes out of nowhere and lances that distort space upon strikes.
Anne runs around with a 2 layer of dura, her own and her passive DC Coat that generates a barrier around her. AB Swords have the property of straight up canceling other Forcefields. They have done so with biological Forcefields and mechanicals forcefields.
Her "mindreading" is reading the melody of your body (Dont ask me what the melody is, its not expanded on), allowing her predict and read enemy intent. She dosnt need eye contact or anything, you only need to be near her. It allowed her to counter attacks from people who blitz her and from someone who could vector manip his spear in unpredictable angles with ease.
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I have a few questions:
Mind explaining what does biological and mechanical forcefields mean in her verse?
What's special about these space distorting lances? Is it something similar to LLT or something?
Mind explaining what does biological and mechanical forcefields mean in her verse?
What's special about these space distorting lances? Is it something similar to LLT or something?
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Sure.
The common enemy in Knight Run are aliens, who evolved in such a way that they passivly create their own barriers. Those are barriers that stem from biological beings. Then there are human warships that creates their own barriers, barriers stemming from mechanical things.
Nothing at all. They would just thrust trhough solid material like butter, because the space they hit gets ripped apart.
The common enemy in Knight Run are aliens, who evolved in such a way that they passivly create their own barriers. Those are barriers that stem from biological beings. Then there are human warships that creates their own barriers, barriers stemming from mechanical things.
Nothing at all. They would just thrust trhough solid material like butter, because the space they hit gets ripped apart.
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I believe Sub-Zero is pretty formidable in CQC and can slightly close the AP gap with his use of chi. His Neijin is one of the ways to close the AP gap, boosting his damage twofold by standing still for a short moment to focus and gaining the boost. He can also do this by incorporating chi into his attacks without the need to focus but he still gets a boost. It's something martial artists in the MK verse do to perform some of their special moves and basic attacks. Plus they are near each other so he'd go for CQC instead of zoning out with his ice powers.
I see. Would it work against elemental forcefields, such as ones made from his ice powers?
That's really dangerous. Good thing it isn't something she'd do in close combat.
I see. Would it work against elemental forcefields, such as ones made from his ice powers?
That's really dangerous. Good thing it isn't something she'd do in close combat.
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There are no known multiplier but waves function in the same way. She can amp her slices to create further travelinig energy cuts or amp the general force behind every of her attacks. SZ would have to deal with Anne's insane skill/experience AND her mind reading on top of that.
Anne could mow down a entire group of Knights who were all armed with swords and attacking her coordinated at the same time, barehanded. Casually.
It woudnt. It needs to be spatial, so ice barriers are fair game.
It is, actually. Its a actual, proper lance (seriously, LLT is as much a lance as throwing Dynamite is a martial arts smh). I actually dont know if she could throw it though...
Anne could mow down a entire group of Knights who were all armed with swords and attacking her coordinated at the same time, barehanded. Casually.
It woudnt. It needs to be spatial, so ice barriers are fair game.
It is, actually. Its a actual, proper lance (seriously, LLT is as much a lance as throwing Dynamite is a martial arts smh). I actually dont know if she could throw it though...
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Sub-Zero isn't just going for the offensive, he's a defense oriented fighter who frequently uses his ice powers. He can teleport away from attacks that are too much to dodge normally and perform a freeze parry by blocking attacks or ice armor. If she strikes him during these times, she gets frozen and open for a counter attack. Or worse, she gets AZ'd and that's the end.
His weapons can freeze on contact too, plus he has lots of defense options such as ice clones, ice forcefields (which is omnidirectional) and large ice shields that cover his entire front and top.
His weapons can freeze on contact too, plus he has lots of defense options such as ice clones, ice forcefields (which is omnidirectional) and large ice shields that cover his entire front and top.
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The moment she sees him abusing his Ice powers is the moment he gets bombarded with Wave attacks. Meaning that all his elemental attacks are powernulled. And their AoE is huge, plus the fact that Anne can predict where he teleports, makes teleporting not that big of a boon either.
Wave embued attacks null any freezing done to her weapons and bigger lazer moves, that are done with a twitch of her hand, will penetrate any ice created barrier. Freezing on contact in general woudnt work that well, considering that Annes barrier is passivly around her.
Wave embued attacks null any freezing done to her weapons and bigger lazer moves, that are done with a twitch of her hand, will penetrate any ice created barrier. Freezing on contact in general woudnt work that well, considering that Annes barrier is passivly around her.
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I see. But I said nothing about Sub-Zero spamming elemental attacks. What I said is that Sub-Zero usually relies on his powers for defense (shields, traps, clones, armor, etc.) while attacking at melee range so no projectiles and any of the like. And absolute zero exists too, assuming that helps him against Wave techniques and barriers. His teleport is based on his intangibility meaning he can go elementally intangible during an attack and come back to fight her in a gap existing in her attacks plus the process can be done with a thought.
Also you said that this "melody of the body" was unexplored in the story. Can I see some scenes of it being mentioned or shown in a fight or some character's explanation of it? For understanding purposes btw
Also you said that this "melody of the body" was unexplored in the story. Can I see some scenes of it being mentioned or shown in a fight or some character's explanation of it? For understanding purposes btw
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Anne is extremly trigger happy once she sees paranormal powers. Manipulating ice definitly falls into it, so she will use her Wave attacks to its full extent.
AZ honestly wont help SZ more than his normal ice, outside of actually oneshotting Anne, it still gets negated. Finding gaps in Anne's attacks is near impossible. She can attack multiple targets in a single motion, the Pray Style in general is extremly fluid.
There you go. All relevant scans for her Melody Reading are there, just scroll down to the mind reading part.
AZ honestly wont help SZ more than his normal ice, outside of actually oneshotting Anne, it still gets negated. Finding gaps in Anne's attacks is near impossible. She can attack multiple targets in a single motion, the Pray Style in general is extremly fluid.
There you go. All relevant scans for her Melody Reading are there, just scroll down to the mind reading part.
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Does natural powers count and can they be nullified? Sub-Zero is a descendant of an ancient race known as Cryomancers who manipulate ice with their body. They absorb air and release it as ice by freezing the surrounding water vapor or simply release the absorbed air into a colder form of it.
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Yes it does. Most of Knight Runs abilities are natural, some even have their own special organ, like the Gravity devive from the Zail family, that allows them to mess with gravity.
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I see, but is this organ a part of them since birth? Because if it isn't then it's not natural. And how does AZ get negated? Does she have feats of doing so?
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They are born with it yes.
Because AZ in general isnt more complex than ice manip or carrys more potency. Waves can null physic manipulation for example
Because AZ in general isnt more complex than ice manip or carrys more potency. Waves can null physic manipulation for example
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What kind of physics manipulation can she nullify with Waves?
Also I'm not sure if this changes anything but Sub-Zero doesn't use a specific organ to manipulate ice. He simply produces it from his body and we even get to see what his insides look like. Not seeing any organ that produces his powers here.
Aaaand I'll be going to sleep now, it's already late here
Also I'm not sure if this changes anything but Sub-Zero doesn't use a specific organ to manipulate ice. He simply produces it from his body and we even get to see what his insides look like. Not seeing any organ that produces his powers here.
Aaaand I'll be going to sleep now, it's already late here
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On top of my head:
Inerta, gravity, velocity magnetism and space.
Im afraid that it dosnt. Phenomenon weapons, that breaks the laws of physics, are, well, weapons. They get negged. The Leonards, that can manipulate fires, werent stated to have a special organ for their paranormal ability either.
Inerta, gravity, velocity magnetism and space.
Im afraid that it dosnt. Phenomenon weapons, that breaks the laws of physics, are, well, weapons. They get negged. The Leonards, that can manipulate fires, werent stated to have a special organ for their paranormal ability either.
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Ummm I'm not seeing AZ or anything related to it. Being able to negate stuff that breaks the laws of physics doesn't automatically mean you can null everything else that does that.
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Well sure, i mostly disagree considering that AZ isnt mechanically different than ice manipulation or more complex than physic manipulation but it dosnt matter that much either way.
Is there still something you need to know?
Is there still something you need to know?
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That reminds me. It certainly wouldn't be AC level of resistance, but shouldn't the DC coats provide some amount of cold resistance? I say this while thinking of the Cold Heroes and others kicking ass on top of the Blue Flower, which was already pretty much in space.
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Outer space is pretty cold, almost close to AZ so yes.
But AZ still exists anyway
But AZ still exists anyway
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Sounds sound, i may change that once the new arc finishes.
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Right, so do you need more information, do you want to debate some points or did you reach to a conclusion? Anne is a vote away from grace but i naturally want to continue this until we are both satisfied with the outcome.Xtasyamphetamine said:
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Bump
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Bump
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Grace.
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They are impressive, i just refrain from judging skill feats for now because they gave me headaches recently. And im a biased piece of shit so its better to let others decide.
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