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Android 17 vs Hit
- Thread starter PaChi2
- Start date
-
- Tags
- android 17 dragon ball hit
- Status
- 207
- 15
fight start za warudo (time skip), phasing atack to the heart, match over.
17 shield might be able to stop his atack (though it goes trough objects so...), still the second he would be caught outside of a shield easy victory, 17 cant defeat hit before he does his 2 hit combo kill, so voting for hit here.
17 shield might be able to stop his atack (though it goes trough objects so...), still the second he would be caught outside of a shield easy victory, 17 cant defeat hit before he does his 2 hit combo kill, so voting for hit here.
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Hit takes this. His hax means that 17 doesn't really have a way to touch him (intangibility), he'll be able to get a lot more attacks in without much reprisal (Time Skip) and he has a way of killing 17 straight out (Intangible/Invisible, Dura-ignored Assassination blasts).
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Hit FRA
@LordWhis
uhh, no one voted for 17?
@LordWhis
uhh, no one voted for 17?
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Hit takes this since SBA means Hit is in-character, so will be aiming to kill from the instant the battle starts. Even if it turns out 17's shield can somehow block Hit's intangible punch-blasts, he will eventually get hit by one to a vital point. Meanwhile, Hit can use his intangibility and 17 doesn't have any feats against intangible opponents. 17 also has no time-stop resistance feats.
Hit too Hax and hax-stomps 17 to death.
Hit too Hax and hax-stomps 17 to death.
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I was there the first thread in which these two fought and my stance on this reminds the same.
While 17 has become a boss and spams his forcefield in a different way, protection, boosting his power, and trapping his opponents. He has Infinite Stamina/Energy and is no longer cocky
Hit still is a bit to much for 17. He has more experience, can freeze time, ignore durability with his shockwaves, has Intangibility, and we've seen his new Cage of Time technique. To top it all off, Hit has his growth ability which his pretty quick and won't just increase his power and speed but also the effectiveness of his techniques as well.
Hit Wins but does have some difficulty.
While 17 has become a boss and spams his forcefield in a different way, protection, boosting his power, and trapping his opponents. He has Infinite Stamina/Energy and is no longer cocky
Hit still is a bit to much for 17. He has more experience, can freeze time, ignore durability with his shockwaves, has Intangibility, and we've seen his new Cage of Time technique. To top it all off, Hit has his growth ability which his pretty quick and won't just increase his power and speed but also the effectiveness of his techniques as well.
Hit Wins but does have some difficulty.
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@GyroNutz
Hit's Votes: 6 (Mania568, TheC2, Lucis=the=Lumenian, Goodyfresh, LordGriffin1000, GyroNutz)
17's Votes: 0
Inconclusive Votes: 0
Hit's Votes: 6 (Mania568, TheC2, Lucis=the=Lumenian, Goodyfresh, LordGriffin1000, GyroNutz)
17's Votes: 0
Inconclusive Votes: 0
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Hit FRA
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Well that's 7 votes for the Flawless Hit.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,103
- 3,932
People keep bringing up Hit's time abilities, but Blue Goku was able to fight against that, who was weaker than 17, and though Goku may be better at raw fighting genius, 17 is quite a tactical and skilled fighter himself. I'm pretty sure he could also break through the basic time abilities of Hit, and if SBA is supposed to mean in character, there's no reason for Hit to try killing 17, unless he was hired. Even then, I think 17 would be cautious enough to be on guard, especially since he's seen Hit in action in the ToP. In raw AP, through raw feats and statements (without taking into account the Time Cage), 17 should have a massive advantage. Hit is Kaioken x2 Level highballed, and 17 has numerous showings that put him at Blue Kaioken Level, if not higher. I admit, 17 would have a lot of trouble with Hit's time cage, but it's hard to set up, and we don't know how powerful Hit's spherical attack is, so we don't know if it would knock out 17. 17 has survived self destruction and a huge blast from Jiren afterall. I give it to 17 with high difficulty.
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17 fought against a much stronger Jiren, just saiyan
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Anyone remember when Hit was getting blitzed by Dyspo who scales to base Frieza? That's more or less what I see happening from the get go given 17's combat genius and the fact that he's seen Hit fight before.
17 should have a significant advantage in AP, speed, and durability. He has barriers that he's been shown using in diff forms depending on the circumstance. Also note that Android 17 has ways of attacking within his barrier while Hit's time skip will not bypass his barrier. Hit is far more hax but 17 has readily available effective counters. He has been shown fighting faster and more powerful characters than Hit and contended better with them in direct combat. All of this should be enough to get him there mid diff.
17 should have a significant advantage in AP, speed, and durability. He has barriers that he's been shown using in diff forms depending on the circumstance. Also note that Android 17 has ways of attacking within his barrier while Hit's time skip will not bypass his barrier. Hit is far more hax but 17 has readily available effective counters. He has been shown fighting faster and more powerful characters than Hit and contended better with them in direct combat. All of this should be enough to get him there mid diff.
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Yeah, 17 should outclass Hit in every way here. The same way Jiren destroys Hit's time skip is the same thing that happens here. The only thing he has to worry about is his intangible strikes.
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I don't believe it but I vote for 17 for reasons above.
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When has 17 seen hit fight before? I don't remember him watching Hit vs Dyspo or Jiren, and even if he was, Hit is far different outside of a tournament setting than in it as his abilities are designed to kill. If Hit can beat Blue Goku in one shot, who's roughly on par with 17 and who is a better fighter, Hit should take this.
Also Dyspo scaling to Base Frieza? I shouldn't have to remind you that:
Dyspo blitzed Super Saiyan God Goku, using instant transmission no less, who is defnitely faster than Frieza
Hit blitzed Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta with an unimproved time skip, and he would have done the same to Goku if Goku didn't have prior knowledge, which there's no proof 17 has.
Furthermore, Hit took many hits from Jiren and was still able to come up with a counter attack. Meanwhile, 17 almost got knocked out by Anilaza, and his shields got broken by ******* Ribrianne. Nice one.
Finally, for the record, 17 getting a surprise attack on Jiren and surviving him with the help of SSB x20 Goku and Beyond Blue Vegeta is not comparable to Hit knocking Jiren to the edge of the ring. You're seriously overestimating 17's stats here and underestimating Hit's intellect and his own stats.
Also Dyspo scaling to Base Frieza? I shouldn't have to remind you that:
Dyspo blitzed Super Saiyan God Goku, using instant transmission no less, who is defnitely faster than Frieza
Hit blitzed Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta with an unimproved time skip, and he would have done the same to Goku if Goku didn't have prior knowledge, which there's no proof 17 has.
Furthermore, Hit took many hits from Jiren and was still able to come up with a counter attack. Meanwhile, 17 almost got knocked out by Anilaza, and his shields got broken by ******* Ribrianne. Nice one.
Finally, for the record, 17 getting a surprise attack on Jiren and surviving him with the help of SSB x20 Goku and Beyond Blue Vegeta is not comparable to Hit knocking Jiren to the edge of the ring. You're seriously overestimating 17's stats here and underestimating Hit's intellect and his own stats.
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Hit's only killing moves are his intangible punches, everything else is pure martial arts/ time hax.
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i'd vote inconclusive because we don't know
1) how 17's barrier would interact with hit's hax
2) whether 17 has enough advantage in speed to basically just "outspeed" hit's hax (before he gets used to the patterns) like Dyspo did
3) whether 17 can break out of it like Jiren did. (since the Jiren 17 fought later was WAY stronger than the one that beat hit)
1) how 17's barrier would interact with hit's hax
2) whether 17 has enough advantage in speed to basically just "outspeed" hit's hax (before he gets used to the patterns) like Dyspo did
3) whether 17 can break out of it like Jiren did. (since the Jiren 17 fought later was WAY stronger than the one that beat hit)
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1) Take my word with a grain of salt, but I'd argue that Hit would be able to break through it considering Ribrianne did.
2) Assuming 17's speed is scaled to characters like SSB Goku, I'd say no. An unimproved Hit in his first appearance blitzed SSB Vegeta who is comparable to SSB Goku.
3) Jiren has resistance to time stop which 17 hasn't been shown to be capable of. Therefore we assume 17 can't break out like Jiren did.
2) Assuming 17's speed is scaled to characters like SSB Goku, I'd say no. An unimproved Hit in his first appearance blitzed SSB Vegeta who is comparable to SSB Goku.
3) Jiren has resistance to time stop which 17 hasn't been shown to be capable of. Therefore we assume 17 can't break out like Jiren did.
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17's barrier never broke to Ribranne.
Every time 17's barrier broke it was always a big deal.
17 was able to casually block a attack from Ribranne at her stronger with no struggle at all. So a normal Ribranne would not be able to break his barrier.
17's barrier held up against 3-A Toppo and Anilaza who are both SSBKK level.
Every time 17's barrier broke it was always a big deal.
17 was able to casually block a attack from Ribranne at her stronger with no struggle at all. So a normal Ribranne would not be able to break his barrier.
17's barrier held up against 3-A Toppo and Anilaza who are both SSBKK level.
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'After becoming angry and powering up, she was able to match Android 17, and shattered his barrier with a single punch.' that's from Ribrianne's wiki.
I checked out that thread. If 17 is considered Low 2-C that changes a lot.
Depending on the result of that thread, this battle could be inconclusive.
I checked out that thread. If 17 is considered Low 2-C that changes a lot.
Depending on the result of that thread, this battle could be inconclusive.
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Possibly controversial but I think it's fair to assume 17 has seen virtually anyone fight in the ToP who heavily interacted with his U7 teammates. A couple of 17's defining features in the ToP were near rock solid judgment against opponents regardless of strength difference and attention to the status of his teammates. I find it highly unlikely that he'd be aware of Hit's fighting style and techniques.
I'm annoyed right now because I typed out a long comment and it failed to post. That's a non sequitur. Anyways...
Only GoD Toppo and Jiren have broken 17's barrier and only the latter did it in one shot. Yes, 17 struggled with Anilaza, a character whose tier was recently hotly contested on multiple occasions because of a potentially Low 2-C feat.
17's showings are mixed but his durability with his barrier has been consistently far beyond anything Hit has shown in terms of AP. Off guard/confused Goku is not a good character to scale from and in the same fight in which he was taken out by Hit, he revived himself and shattered Hit's pocket dimension to get a victory which brings me to my next point: hax in DB and how they're resisted. Hit's time skip was countered by Goku with kaio ken, a technique that stacks a linear multiplier on his stats; he was later able to do the same without kaio ken after several zenkais. Vegeta countered existence erasure with a power up and a punch. Jiren also shattered one of Hit's pocket dimensions with his fist, though he has a more typical form of resistance to time stop as well, shown in the time cage feat. Anyway, the point is that as a rule, I don't think it should be assumed that a DB character's hax will work on another DB character if the latter character is of similar, equal, or greater power.
17 nullified an attack from a pissed off, more powerful Jiren than Hit fought using self destruction (which didn't kill him, further suggesting that his durability exceeds his AP by a non-negligible amount. The risk that Hit's time cage poses to 17 is that it gives Hit an opportunity for a point blank attack; however, if 17's barrier is up, said attack will likely fall short and leave Hit drained of stamina against an opponent of comparable or greater power who has infinite stamina.
As for intangible attacks, I really don't know. That could go either way. Jiren backhanded one of them away, they don't automatically phase through absolutely anything they come into contact with.
To conclude, I think 17 wins because of an AP+Speed advantage, a potentially massive durability advantage, and effective counters to Hit's hax.
I'm annoyed right now because I typed out a long comment and it failed to post. That's a non sequitur. Anyways...
Only GoD Toppo and Jiren have broken 17's barrier and only the latter did it in one shot. Yes, 17 struggled with Anilaza, a character whose tier was recently hotly contested on multiple occasions because of a potentially Low 2-C feat.
17's showings are mixed but his durability with his barrier has been consistently far beyond anything Hit has shown in terms of AP. Off guard/confused Goku is not a good character to scale from and in the same fight in which he was taken out by Hit, he revived himself and shattered Hit's pocket dimension to get a victory which brings me to my next point: hax in DB and how they're resisted. Hit's time skip was countered by Goku with kaio ken, a technique that stacks a linear multiplier on his stats; he was later able to do the same without kaio ken after several zenkais. Vegeta countered existence erasure with a power up and a punch. Jiren also shattered one of Hit's pocket dimensions with his fist, though he has a more typical form of resistance to time stop as well, shown in the time cage feat. Anyway, the point is that as a rule, I don't think it should be assumed that a DB character's hax will work on another DB character if the latter character is of similar, equal, or greater power.
17 nullified an attack from a pissed off, more powerful Jiren than Hit fought using self destruction (which didn't kill him, further suggesting that his durability exceeds his AP by a non-negligible amount. The risk that Hit's time cage poses to 17 is that it gives Hit an opportunity for a point blank attack; however, if 17's barrier is up, said attack will likely fall short and leave Hit drained of stamina against an opponent of comparable or greater power who has infinite stamina.
As for intangible attacks, I really don't know. That could go either way. Jiren backhanded one of them away, they don't automatically phase through absolutely anything they come into contact with.
To conclude, I think 17 wins because of an AP+Speed advantage, a potentially massive durability advantage, and effective counters to Hit's hax.
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But he didn't fight the weaker Jiren, so you can't really compare performaces.Unite My Rice said:
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Hit can close said gap with his self improvement ability and given the Jiren 17 fought was Unknown in power the "At least" part doesn't hold a large amount of weight.
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Well, I strongly agree with "At least 3-A" Showing little difficulty against every 3-A he's faced besides Toppo and Anilaza (who I think is above 3-A anyway but besides the point) along with tanking an attack from a powered up Jiren which was intended to hit a Low 2-C (Beyond SSB Vegeta), nullifying an attack from a pissed off Low 2-C and ultimately throwing down with a Low 2-C.
Idk about y'all but that sounds pretty "At least 3-A" to me.
And the attack intended for Vegeta is super relevant IMO bc Hit was knocked out by a similar attack from a greater distance by a less heavily suppressed Jiren
Idk about y'all but that sounds pretty "At least 3-A" to me.
And the attack intended for Vegeta is super relevant IMO bc Hit was knocked out by a similar attack from a greater distance by a less heavily suppressed Jiren
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Didn't 17 get knocked out for a while due to that attack intended for Vegeta? I wouldn't say it's too good of a feat, especially given the number of punches hit took from an (admittedly) more supressed Jiren.
Jiren was extremely weakened when 17 was able to overcome him, and even then it took Goku and Frieza as backup to help. Otherwise, apart from that one sneak attack, 17 was hopelessly outclassed by Jiren.
Again, since post-limit breaking 17's AP and even speed advantage is unknown (given that at the start of the ToP, 17 was comparable to SSB goku, who Hit was also comparable to) I change my vote to inconclusive for this match, especially since I think it's wrong to assume 17 could escape the time cage due to raw power alone (especially without solid 4-D feats)
Jiren was extremely weakened when 17 was able to overcome him, and even then it took Goku and Frieza as backup to help. Otherwise, apart from that one sneak attack, 17 was hopelessly outclassed by Jiren.
Again, since post-limit breaking 17's AP and even speed advantage is unknown (given that at the start of the ToP, 17 was comparable to SSB goku, who Hit was also comparable to) I change my vote to inconclusive for this match, especially since I think it's wrong to assume 17 could escape the time cage due to raw power alone (especially without solid 4-D feats)
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AP/Physical: Looking over there respective matchups against Jiren I must attest that Hit is more powerful for 2 Main Reasons.
1. In their respective matches Hits fights Jiren for several Minutes while 17 only takes a few blows and strategically suicide bombed him overall gross action 30 seconds making it apparent that he wasn't in either Golden Frieza or Jiren (Battle Damaged). Backing me up on this is that 17 himself says Freiza and Jiren were strong in a manner indicating superiority. (Fig. 1)
Fig.1 17 enamours at Freiza and Jiren's strength
2. Doubling up on the previous is the general fact that Hit confronted a Non-Damaged Jiren alone for several minutes. 17 clearly didn't do anything like that against him. Frieza straight up narrates how Jiren has been weakened from the tourney (how else can the Toppo Tier Character fight him) see Fig.2
Fig.2 Golden Frieza mocks Jiren for his fleeting vigor.
It is because of this the edge should go to Hit.
Abilities:
-Hit has more hax'y abilities
-His better performance against should mean he gets the AP advantage
-Centuries more experience + Assassin training = Better H2H
Edge Hit.
Intelligence/Tactics:
-Hit is a trained Assassin with over a Millenia of Experience, Lapis I think was a truck driver.....then a park Ranger.
-Hit's technique allowed him to blitz the Skill Prowess of Goku and defeat him, 17 has never outperformed Goku with skill in his life.
Edge Hit.
So yeah Hit should take this via:
+Superior AP
+Hax
+Superior H2H
+Superior Intelligence and Training
1. In their respective matches Hits fights Jiren for several Minutes while 17 only takes a few blows and strategically suicide bombed him overall gross action 30 seconds making it apparent that he wasn't in either Golden Frieza or Jiren (Battle Damaged). Backing me up on this is that 17 himself says Freiza and Jiren were strong in a manner indicating superiority. (Fig. 1)
Fig.1 17 enamours at Freiza and Jiren's strength
2. Doubling up on the previous is the general fact that Hit confronted a Non-Damaged Jiren alone for several minutes. 17 clearly didn't do anything like that against him. Frieza straight up narrates how Jiren has been weakened from the tourney (how else can the Toppo Tier Character fight him) see Fig.2
Fig.2 Golden Frieza mocks Jiren for his fleeting vigor.
It is because of this the edge should go to Hit.
Abilities:
-Hit has more hax'y abilities
-His better performance against should mean he gets the AP advantage
-Centuries more experience + Assassin training = Better H2H
Edge Hit.
Intelligence/Tactics:
-Hit is a trained Assassin with over a Millenia of Experience, Lapis I think was a truck driver.....then a park Ranger.
-Hit's technique allowed him to blitz the Skill Prowess of Goku and defeat him, 17 has never outperformed Goku with skill in his life.
Edge Hit.
So yeah Hit should take this via:
+Superior AP
+Hax
+Superior H2H
+Superior Intelligence and Training
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Simply put.....
ZA WARDO (Activation of time skip)
MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MDUA MDUA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUAD MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA (Time sKIP- Molotov)
OWARI DA (Hit uses Time Store/Time prision)
OMAE WA WOU MO SHINDERU (Hit turns around "badassly" 17 drops "Its Over")
Hit wins...
ZA WARDO (Activation of time skip)
MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MDUA MDUA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUAD MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA (Time sKIP- Molotov)
OWARI DA (Hit uses Time Store/Time prision)
OMAE WA WOU MO SHINDERU (Hit turns around "badassly" 17 drops "Its Over")
Hit wins...
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,103
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Jiren was far more supressed, and fought Hit easily. And just because you call someone strong doesn't mean they're stronger than you. Frieza did nothing to Jiren in 127, while 17 was able to fight with a more powerful Jiren than the one against Hit. 17 did so well in 127, it's hard to see him losing to someone who got stomped by more suprressed Jiren. 17 could've fought for minutes against Jiren, and probably would've had he not provoked Jiren. HIt would've been instantly defeated too if he made Jiren mad. And 17 could still overpower Jiren's angry attack and survive. 17's barrier could survive many enhanced Justice Flashes, and other than Jiren/Toppo, 17's barrier never even got cracked. I've already explained why 17 has higher AP, and while that's true, Goku could still beat Hit, and 17 is a very strategic and smart fighter, so he could think of something. Hit is more experienced, but he's still lost, and 17 has trained a lot too, for nearly 2 decades actually. And that's true, but only once, and that's because 17 barely fought Goku. In fact, he seemed to have the advantage against Blue Goku, even if he was supressed (which I don't believe, I think he meant Kaioken), and we've seen 17 fight much stronger opponents than him, so it's possible the same would be the case with someone more skilled. You certainly make a good case for why Hit wins, but many things point to 17 being stronger, especially since Goku and Vegeta got much stronger in Base, and 17 still fought with them in Kaioken and Evolution. In fact, 17's strength and durability seemed to even possibly surpass them at times, though that's debatable.Mirai-Koichi said:AP/Physical:Looking over there respective matchups against Jiren I must attest that Hit is more powerful for 2 Main Reasons.
1. In their respective matches Hits fights Jiren for several Minutes while 17 only takes a few blows and strategically suicide bombed him overall gross action 30 seconds making it apparent that he wasn't in either Golden Frieza or Jiren (Battle Damaged). Backing me up on this is that 17 himself says Freiza and Jiren were strong in a manner indicating superiority. (Fig. 1)
Fig.1 17 enamours at Freiza and Jiren's strength
2. Doubling up on the previous is the general fact that Hit confronted a Non-Damaged Jiren alone for several minutes. 17 clearly didn't do anything like that against him. Frieza straight up narrates how Jiren has been weakened from the tourney (how else can the Toppo Tier Character fight him) see Fig.2
Fig.2 Golden Frieza mocks Jiren for his fleeting vigor.
It is because of this the edge should go to Hit.
Abilities:
-Hit has more hax'y abilities
-His better performance against should mean he gets the AP advantage
-Centuries more experience + Assassin training = Better H2H
Edge Hit.
Intelligence/Tactics:
-Hit is a trained Assassin with over a Millenia of Experience, Lapis I think was a truck driver.....then a park Ranger.
-Hit's technique allowed him to blitz the Skill Prowess of Goku and defeat him, 17 has never outperformed Goku with skill in his life.
Edge Hit.
So yeah Hit should take this via:
+Superior AP
+Hax
+Superior H2H
+Superior Intelligence and Training
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Years of experience means nothing.
>Superior AP
17 has fought much stronger versions of Hit's opponents, no contest. And he's faster.
>Superior AP
17 has fought much stronger versions of Hit's opponents, no contest. And he's faster.
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Uh, Hit already has 7 votes. So... he wins?
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17 fought a stronger version of Jiren and has way better feats (AP and dura wise) than hit if you take that into context. 17 actually managed to inflict considerable damage twice, and withstand attacks several times, from a more powerful Jiren than the one Hit got essentially stomped by.
this is inconclusive, because we don't know how far 17's advantage in AP/speed goes. if his speed advantage is big enough, 17 could simply overwhelm hit's hax, and then if his AP advantage is big enough, that'd end the fight before hit can adapt to it.
this is inconclusive, because we don't know how far 17's advantage in AP/speed goes. if his speed advantage is big enough, 17 could simply overwhelm hit's hax, and then if his AP advantage is big enough, that'd end the fight before hit can adapt to it.
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