Altair vs the Hunter

[Kaltias]

Speed equalized.

Altair is in base, the Hunter has all the items. Battle takes place on the planet where the Gungeon is located.

Altair (Re:Creators):

The Hunter (Enter the Gungeon):

Inconclusive:1 (Peter)

 

[Peter1129]

Isn't this match a stomp? I don't see how Hunter can get past Altair's Mid Godly Regen not to mention the massive AP advantage of Altair who is probably going to become 8-A soon.

 

[Kaltias]

Out of the top of my head, the Hunter stops time passively, regen doesn't help against transmutation, time travel works, and the Hunter is just as hard to kill because the Gungeon resurrects her anyway. Also Emphatic manip, devolution etc

 

[Peter1129]

Oh alright than. Let me recheck their profiles.

Edit: why do I feel like this is going to turn into another one of those whoever attacks first with their hax wins match?

Hunter can time stop and than shoot her transmutation bullets. But Altair can start with paralysis and than use Representation Exposition to change Hunter's character description so she wouldn't have those abilities or weapons like she did with Selesia's Vogelchevalier.

 

[Kaltias]

Explanation blog if you need it. I'm not so sure about the match, i mostly made it due to that discussion about the strongest 8-C ovo

 

[Peter1129]

Explanation blog if you need it. I'm not so sure about the match, i mostly made it due to that discussion about the strongest 8-C ovo

You should've just used her against Medaka. She's the only 8-C on this wiki that poses a threat to Hunter.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

How exactly does transmutation negate Mid-Godly regen?

 

[Kaltias]

Because there is nothing to regenerate, it's just a new form. No damage is dealt

 

[Peter1129]

I just read Hunter's abilities and the time stop isn't passive. It's in her active items category. Altair was also shown to be able to negate Blitz's gravity bullet so I think she should have no problem nullifying her transmutation bullets. Also are you sure Hunter's transmutation bullets even work on characters stronger than her?

 

[Kaltias]

Read the Super Hot Watch description. It's the one i'm talking about.

They negate invulnerability, so probably yes.

 

[Peter1129]

Read the Super Hot Watch description. It's the one i'm talking about.

They negate invulnerability, so probably yes.

You should've put a time Manipulation link right after the sentence. That's how I speed read the blog. Also what does it mean by while the Gungeoneer isn't moving? So she just has a slower perception of time when she isn't moving how would she attack than? Can you explain this one to me.

Edit: Nevermind she can still fire her weapons.

 

[Kaltias]

Basically, time is slowed to a standstill (the "bullets need a minute to move a metre" kind) while the Hunter isn't walking. She can use her items and weapons normally in the meantime, but the bullets are also super slow.

 

[Peter1129]

Next question can her bullets get past Altair's barrier of sword. Like she spins them so fast they blocked all of Blitz's bullets.

 

[Kaltias]

Since she has all the items, she has the ghost bullets granting her piercing attacks. So they should be able to.

She could also use the actual time stop or the empathic manipulation to make Altair friendly

 

[Peter1129]

Well than Altair via Representation Exposition changing all of Hunter's weapons with her range advantage. I almost forgot range is actually important in low tier matches. Or Factor Mimic and make Hunter fight multiple copies of herself.

 

[Kaltias]

Both reach hundred of meters tho. And the Hunter can get close abusing the Bloodied Scarf + Super Hot Watch combo, since it basically allows her to move with time stopped.

Also the other copies have no real way to put her down either, and the battle is resetted whenever one Hunter dies

 

[Peter1129]

Than it just comes down to whether or not Hunter would use the combos from the start. Since Altair would always use her Holopsicon from the start. She always uses Holopsicon from the start of the battle.

Just asking but does both characters remember everything from the previous battle if Hunter dies once? Cause if it does than Altair is definitely going to win due to the activation speed of her Holopsicon.

 

[Kaltias]

The Hunter has no real character so this can't really be established. I don't remember which weapons are hundred of metres, but the Hunter would likely start with those, given that the others would be useless from this distance.

I have no idea if Altair would remember things after the reset but the Hunter does

Also keep in mind that the Hunter does have an advantage thanks to the Super Hot Watch, as it gives her the upper hand if it becomes a "who strikes first" thing

 

[Peter1129]

Well at this point than it might just be inconclusive if Altair can't remember the previous battle. Since Altair will just keep doing the same thing in every single battle. She can activate her Holopsicon instantly and negate all of Hunter's weapons.

Altair also has her own version of teleportation which doesn't require her to make any movement it also seems like a type of instant pinpoint teleportation.

 

[Kaltias]

Time travel tho :>

Only one of them dies if she dies in the past.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right forgot she had that. How does she activate it. Also did Hunter always have these abilities even before entering the Gungeon.

 

[Kaltias]

She has to shoot herself with a gun.

Nah she didn't. But the people who enter in the gungeon become resistant to having their past changed (which is why they can change it but they end up there regardless)

 

[Peter1129]

These things are so confusing so does changing the plot count as changing the past? Since that seems to be the only way Altair can win at this point. Otherwise actually how would time travel help Hunter anyway? Altair is an independent Existence her creator is already dead when she was born.

 

[Kaltias]

Depends from how Altair's plot manipulation works.

Her creator had any part in Altair's birth? If so, she can kill her creator back when they were a baby.

 

[Peter1129]

Well Altair's Outline Origin essentially brings the plot back to the start as in before everything happened. Which means she's able to turn Hunter back to how she was before entering the Gungeon.

I bought SBA states that they don't have prior knowledge of each other. How would Hunter know Altair was created by somebody else instead of being born.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, it would, but it doesn't actually solve anything because the Hunter can go back before she entered the Gungeon, change the past, and she still ends up the same way.

Time travelling enough times should be enough to understand it. Even then, she has ways to win in the present

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah this plot manipulation vs time manipulation is really confusing.

Doesn't Altair's Holopsicon just straight up negate like all her weapons.

So if Outline Origin wouldn't work what about her Existence Change? Altair doesn't kill her target with that ability instead she merely becomes that character by overwriting their existence.

 

[Kaltias]

Elaborate on the "negate everything" thing.

Possession should work I think.

 

[Peter1129]

She was able to turn Selesia's Sword Rebellion into flower the instant before it clashes with Aliceteria's lance. So wouldn't that mean she can use Representation Exposition and turn all of Hunter's weapons into flowers the instant before any of her bullets touch her? She also have a couple of other Holopsicon abilities that doesn't seem to require any movement to activate such as Fate Restoration which erase things from existence.

If Existence Change works than I think I'm gonna switch my vote to Altair.

 

[Kaltias]

Erasing the Hunter wouldn't work since the Gungeon can restore souls. Also, you sure that she can do it while stopped in time/mindscrewed?

 

[Peter1129]

I know existence erasure doesn't work. I just gave an example of another instant activation Holopsicon ability of hers. Also didn't you say she can only make everything go move slow passively and that she has to actively use her time stop? Another question does Hunter's transmutation bullets also work on inanimate object like swords? Cause if they do than Altair will take caution of her bullets if she saw her swords turn into animals and just negate them.

Edit: nevermind I rewatched some of the scenes and it looks like some of her abilities need to be activated by swiping her sword on her gun.

 

[Kaltias]

Nothing prevents her from time stopping at the start. Transmutation doesn't transmute projectiles mid air, so maybe not.

 

[Schnee_One]

Does she do it in character at the start?

 

[Kaltias]

The Hunter has no real character so this can't really be established. I don't remember which weapons are hundred of metres, but the Hunter would likely start with those, given that the others would be useless from this distance.

I have no idea if Altair would remember things after the reset but the Hunter does

Also keep in mind that the Hunter does have an advantage thanks to the Super Hot Watch, as it gives her the upper hand if it becomes a "who strikes first" thing

^

 

[Schnee_One]

That's fair

 

[Peter1129]

So this did turn into would they use their hax first match after all. Welp I guess I'll just wait and see who else is gonna comment before changing my vote from inconclusive.