Altair vs Palkia

[NeoZex6399]

Altair resist time stop?

It is because time is not present in the domains of Palkia.

 

[FateAlbane]

Doesn't speed equalized equalize them to Infinite, tho? Can't imagine a Low 2-C match going at Supersonic+ speeds. lol

 

[GalaxianAegis]

If that's the case then it's probably impossible for Palkia to have a decisive victory. Couldn't Altair still fake her own death and use possession on Palkia though? That option is still on the table.

 

[FateAlbane]

Palkia can actually still outlast her if he isn't killed/defeated/possessed/whatever somehow before that, since her stamina is "High" while Palkia's is "Very High, Likely Limitless", so it's not like he has no means of winning.

 

[Kaltias]

? Palkia has ways to win.

She can, but Palkia can use the space distortion thing/willpower erasure

 

[NeoZex6399]

I don't think that speed equalization gives a character the ability to reside in a place without time or dimensions, it would be a little unfair to those who have these feats...

But maybe I'm wrong

 

[FateAlbane]

I meant that people with Infinite speed can move in voids without time by default, not that they are granted immunity to time stop via equalization.

 

[FateAlbane]

Now if the dimension erases people sent there, then her regen would be the thing covering that.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

He'd outlast her if it comes down to attrition, yeah.

If he has such a large AP advantage though, the Regenerationn takeover could happen quicker due to him taking out her physical form.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Possession may also possibly not work because Palkia lacks a spirit and also because it is the space itself.

I would also like to point out that reality warping of Palkia is absurdly strong, the mere presence of a weakened and sleeping Palkia made the thoughts and dreams of humans or pokémon materialize on the physical plane.

There is also the fact that Palkia can destroy his willpower and emotions.

@Fate

Ok thanks, although I thought the absence of time was equivalent to Time Stop.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Exactly what NEO said. Palkia kinda should be either immune to or highly resistant to any form of possession given shes literally the concept of space and lacks a spirit to even be possessed.

Speaking of which, is their evidence of Altair copying beings who are literal concepts? Because if not I highly and completely doubt she can recreate another Palkia like Arceus can.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Altair's possession of Sirius was on a being that had no personality or real spirit itself because it was created by the Creators soley for the purpose of defeating Altair. It was stated that they didn't even write something like that, and it was less of a mental thing and more of her actually becoming Sirius' existence instead.

I believe we've deduced that while Altair could possibly create another Palkia, it would be inferior to the original, however it could help with some basic things like reversing a BFR.

 

[FateAlbane]

Bump.

 

[FateAlbane]

Night bump.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Night? What time zone are you in? ovo

 

[FateAlbane]

UTC -3.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Huh. 4 hours behind. Whaddyaknow.

Aand I just had a revelation.

Dang. So all the times I was up 'til like, 3 talking to you, it was the morning where you were?

 

[FateAlbane]

Correct. I'm usually more active at either late night or early morning because buried in papers. So I look around to get my mind away from that stuff for a while.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I see. You must have an interesting life (in a good way)

 

[FateAlbane]

Bump.

 

[FateAlbane]

Bump.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah, getting back to the match. My b for derailing.

Preeety sure Altair can't Re:Create the concept that is Palkia, no matter how weakened.

To be clearer, she can't create the very concept of space. So her getting out of BFR via that method is a no.

Even if she did, given that Palkia controls all the space and pocket dimensions in the verse (minus the Distortion World), pretty sure he'd lol'nope someone attempting to override his influence.

 

[FateAlbane]

>>> Literally created an Universe with Time and Space out of thin air.

>>> Can't create something that embodies space, even if a weaker form.

????

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

To create a concept, you need conceptual manipulation. She doesn't have conceptual manipulation.

Also, edited comment.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

If you create a universe, you create concepts that are present in that universe, obviously.

 

[FateAlbane]

She literally says "Create a story" before creating said Universe and Palkia is way less of an abstract as people are seeming to try to imply here, frankly speaking, especially considering this is sealed Palkia.

I can agree with Altair being able to copy a weaker Palkia as opposed to the thing's full power but this whole "she can't copy it at all!" seems like simply disregarding the character's abilities and going a little over the extrapolation on the whole "Palkia is space" when she has a feat of creating the exact thing he embodies along with Time at that on a Universal scale, truth be told.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Not true...at all. Hasn't ever been the case. The concepts exist. You're just giving them form.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[Kaltias]

I'm with cal on this one. Otherwise literally every Low 2-C creator god would have conceptual manipulation

 

[FateAlbane]

Again, there is not one hint of this Abstract/Conceptual Existence you are implying for Sealed Palkia in its profile and as far as I'm aware if Altair created Space in a Universal scale, that's all the feats she needs to back up the idea of her creating/copying her own version of Palkia, even if I agree that it will be weaker/close to her in overall power.

This is once again disregarding Altair's hax via some rather weird reasoning.

 

[FateAlbane]

No. This whole "You need Conceptual Manip to copy Palkia!" is the extrapolation happening here, as a matter of fact. It embodies space.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

I'm with Fate on this one.

 

[Kaltias]

It was directed to the "if you can shape a universe you can shape concepts" thing. Also, it does embody the concept of space, but you don't need to control it to copy Palkia

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Never brought up controlling Palkia himself.

 

[Kaltias]

Right, my bad. Editing

 

[FateAlbane]

Sorry, but Palkia is not Chara or some SMT demon levels of abstraction as far as I'm aware.

By that same logic that you'd need to affect the abstract concept of space, you'd actually be implying that one would have to destroy the very concept of Space on an abstract level to affect or beat even a sealed Palkia, which is not at all the case.

Hence my point about this being disregarding the hax of one side and extrapolating a bit on the other.

As I see no Abstract Existence whatsoever for Sealed Palkia, I say either someone makes a CRT for it and gets this through or I'm calling shenanigans.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, I guess she can create a non-conceptual, weaker Palkia. But said copy does still get lolnoped by true Palkia.

 

[FateAlbane]

Well, whether Palkia will know about negating her coming back or not or who wins is not for me to debate.

Just the whole concept stuff that I found strange, so whatever else happens, fine by me.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I'm pretty sure that it's agreed upon that Altair isn't making an equivalent Palkia.

However, there's still the topic of the posession to be discussed. I still think this is a valid means for Altair to still win.

 

[FateAlbane]

Vote count is still at:

Altair: 5 (Gargoyle One, The 2nd Existential Seed, Knightofannihilation666, Peter1129, GalaxianAegis)

Palkia: 6 (Kaltias, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, NeoZex6399, ProfessorKukui4Life, JustSomeWeirdo)

Inconclusive:

SwagPack didn't leave a vote.

 

[Schnee_One]

Palkia FRA