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welcome back to another episode of Genericstickman attempts to find a fair battle for Chaos in this episode, Altair

Low 2-C Altair used

speed equalised

Altair:

Chaos:1

Incon:
 
Chaos has all the powers and resistances of Drac and monsters, thus can negate immortallity and mid godly, also he starts with soul rip which is superior to characters who can control infinite souls.

Add the fact that Chaos also theoretically has the power of dominance and thus gets all the powers, resistances and attributes of the soul he absorbs and this is a clear victory for Chaos
 
Also Chaos created abstracts like Death and can control abstract beings made out of evil, mind hax shoul work
 
She has type 4 concept manip from what i'm seeing and yes Chaos is a type 2 concept, you need an equivalent conceptual manip to affect higher concepts
 
>No Acausality Type 5

Passive Causality and Plot Manipulation that works on Type 4 Acausals reflects back his attacks including Conceptual ones since she did so onscreen.

Also, Altair as a Low 7-C had a powernull which was superior than a powernull that was more powerful than a Low 2-C Powernull. EoS Altair's null is massively amped from her Low 7-C key so even if you have Resistance to Low 2-C pnull, it's still nulling you considering her Pnull bypasses Resistances.

Also I really don't see any resistance to Info Manip which is opens with a lot of time.

But my Re:C CRT is still there and if it's Concluded properly, Altair won't be Low 2-C anymore.
 
LightinAnt said:
She has type 4 concept manip from what i'm seeing and yes Chaos is a type 2 concept, you need an equivalent conceptual manip to affect higher concepts
You know she has Power Mimicry which is again, plot based. Won't even take it long for her to copy everything Chaos has.
 
Why would you need feats for that when she has copied powers and affects abstracts. Having Type 2 Concept Hax doesn't really mean you're safe from getting it copied especially when your opponent is an abstract that can copy other Abstract powersets

Is Chaos a 2-C or 2-B or 2-A or higher tier being? No. Then I fail to see why she won't be able to copy it when they are both in the same tier?

@4D being an argument. As a Low 7-C she was passively affecting the entire Causality Flow of the Real World Universe. As a Low 2-C she's still got 4D powers considering all her powers are based off Plot-Causality stuffs. So don't see how him being 4D is helping here.
 
Chaos is 4D and copying higher concepts especially from higher D character requires feats, otherwise we end up with Altair copying 1-A Platonic concepts
 
LightinAnt said:
Chaos is 4D and copying higher concepts especially from higher D character requires feats, otherwise we end up with Altair copying 1-A Platonic concepts
No that's blatant false. Type 2 Concept Ôëá Higher Dimensional. Which is why I said if Chaos is higher tier than her since Power Mimicry is generally accepted to work on the level of the chara unless feats show they can copy above their tiers. Her Copying his Type 2 Concept Hax who is on the same Low 2-C tier as her doesn't Equate to her copying Type 1 Concepts.
 
I didn't say Type 2 is higher dimensional, i only said that copying a higher concept requires feats which she likely hasn't shown. If the best thing she interacted with is Type 4 or at best 3, then she shouldn't be able to copy or even affect 2, literally on the page.

Also tier doesn't have to do with anything, Chaos could be 10-A or High 1-B in AP for all we care
 
LightinAnt said:
I didn't say Type 2 is higher dimensional, i only said that copying a higher concept requires feats which she likely hasn't shown. If the best thing she interacted with is Type 4 or at best 3, then she shouldn't be able to copy or even affect 2, literally on the page.

Also tier doesn't have to do with anything, Chaos could be 10-A for all we care
No. The Page says All Conceptual Manipulators are bound by the type of concept they have been shown to manipulate. A character able to manipulate a concept on a Type 4 level cannot manipulate any higher concept type. which is cool and all except she isn't initially using Type 2 Concept. She is just copying his ability or absorbing his Avatar and gaining that ability. Nothing on the page says a character who has a good level of Power Mimicry cannot Copy Type 2 Concept Hax from another character from the same tier.

Tier has to do with everything including both Power Mimicry and Powernull but that's a different topic.

The only wincon here for Chaos is Type 2 Concept Hax which either gets nulled hard or copied or reflected back.

Whereas Altair can: 4D Plot Hax or Causality Hax Passively, Null Chaos above his resistance, Copy Chaos's powers, Creates another Copy of Chaos to fight for her, Info Rewrite him,etc
 
It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can copy anything used against them; even if they can copy the functions of the ability, they may not be able to copy its full destructive power.

Altair is a type 4 concept, saying she can copy type 2 is wank without feats
 
Key Words Destructive Power aka Tier which I stated above about the tiering thing.

Again, is the Type 2 Concept Hax something that's Above Low 2-C say like the TES Charas who have Tier 1 Type 2 concept Hax??? If he displayed a Type 2 Concept Hax for only Low 2-C Stuffs then it can definitely be copied. If that Type 2 Concept Hax was used for 2-C or 2-B or higher stuffs then it cannot be copied and instead it'll just bump Chaos Tier up
 
Again, type 2 requires evidence of her being able to copy or even affect a type 2 entity. If the highest stuff she was shown to copy is only type 4, then that's her limit
 
But again, what else can he do to all the stuff I have mentioned? You never gave me any other rebuttal except for arguing whether on not Type 2 Concept Hax can be copied. There's multiple ways through which Chaos can be incapped.

However, I'm just waiting for the revisions to get accepted. If it does this match would become invalidated.
 
RM97 said:
But again, what else can he do to all the stuff I have mentioned? You never gave me any other rebuttal except for arguing whether on not Type 2 Concept Hax can be copied. There's multiple ways through which Chaos can be incapped.
However, I'm just waiting for the revisions to get accepted. If it does this match would become invalidated.
Chaos can't get incapped because he can't be affected by Altair, that's what i've been arguing this entire time.

And if this match gets invalidated, then so be it, point still stands that she can't affect him
 
LightinAnt said:
Again, type 2 requires evidence of her being able to copy or even affect a type 2 entity. If the highest stuff she was shown to copy is only type 4, then that's her limit
You're really not providing and justification for why it's not possible. I provided reasoning for why it's plausable for her or, as a matter of fact, any good Power Copying character who can interact with Type 1 Abstracts in Low 2-C to copy Chaos's powers since it just works on Low 2-C scale which can be easily copied. And no she didn't copy Type 4. She simply copied abilities of characters since it's all part of her Plot Based arsenal which is 4D even in her Low 7-C.

@EmperorDoom25

Type 2 Concept doesn't need any Range only Type 3 does.
 
Let me get this straight to you, you need evidence that Altair can affect or even copy a type 2 concept, a concept way higher than what she is i.e type 4. If the only evidence you have is "Lol she copies anyways" then this isn't really an argument.

To reiterate, show me she can copy or affect type 2

And you know just aswell as me that the concept page literally debunks your entire reasoning
 
Chaos can't get incapped because he can't be affected by Altair, that's what i've been arguing this entire time.

And if this match gets invalidated, then so be it, point still stands that she can't affect him

Again why wouldn't he be affected. Altair can perfectly interact with Type 1 Abstracts. Being Type 1 Abstracts of different types of Concepts doesn't really imply that they cannot interact with each other. You misunderstood the last point of Conceptual Manipulation page. Altair isn't really manipulating him. She is interacting with him via her other powers and Interacting Ôëá Manipulating.
 
Interacting with type 1 Type 4/3 abstracts is one thing, interacting with a type 1 type 2 concept is another.

Again i need evidence of her being able to copy or affect Chaos a type 2 concept
 
LightinAnt said:
Let me get this straight to you, you need evidence that Altair can affect or even copy a type 2 concept, a concept way higher than what she is i.e type 4. If the only evidence you have is "Lol she copies anyways" then this isn't really an argument.

To reiterate, show me she can copy or affect type 2

And you know just aswell as me that the concept page literally debunks your entire reasoning
Can you specifically show me where it says a two characters of two different concepts cannot interact with each other when they are in the same tier? And where it also says Copying Powers = Affecting your Opponent?

Type 2 Concept on a low 2-C level isn't really "Higher than her" when she is at the same level and has 4D Haxes to affect him.
 
I didn't say that she couldn't theoretically interact with him, only that she is a lower concept and Chaos is a higher concept thus she can't interact with him which is true

I mean you're literally saying that any type 4 Concept can affect or copy Type 2
 
LightinAnt said:
I didn't say that she couldn't theoretically interact with him, only that she is a lower concept and Chaos is a higher concept thus she can't interact with him which is true

I mean you're literally saying that any type 4 Concept can affect or copy Type 2
Your entire argument is based on the notion that since Chaos is a Type 2 Concept then he cannot be interacted with by a Type 4 Concept like Altair. Cool thing except A) Both are on the Same Tier with Altair having a significant advantage over Range, AP,etc. B) Nothing in the Conceptual Manipulation page suggests that two Concepts in the same tier cannot interact with each other. Sure it says a lower concept cannot Manipulate a higher one but I said above that Altair isn't Manipulating him. She is just Copying his powers. C) Nothing in the page or anywhere else says Type 2 Concept Manip Hax cannot be copied by other characters in the same tier if the latter has feats of interacting with Abstracts and concepts.
 
LightinAnt said:
Also Chaos is only Low 2-C in AP, he is 2-C as a concept, so even that debunks your point
2-C in range which again is nothing against an absurd level of 2-B range of Altair's concept.
 
They are not on the same tier lol, didn't you say she will be downgraded? Also Chaos as a concept is 2-C again, and a type 2 at that, also the concept page literally says lower concepts can't affect higher concepts. Also please learn what a NLF is, because i've stated this multiple times, you need evidence for being able to copy type 2 when you're only type 4
 
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