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Alphamon (5-B) vs Yhwach (5-B)
- Thread starter C2_of_Omegon
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Bump.
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What resistance to time manipulation does he has?
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@HokageMangaVox
ZeedMillenniummo, a Digimon with almost absolute control over time, space, and reality over infinite timelines and can destroy a multiverse through its existence alone couldn't hax Alphamon to death.
Alphamon seals him and purges his soul with Digitalize of Soul and calls it a night.
ZeedMillenniummo, a Digimon with almost absolute control over time, space, and reality over infinite timelines and can destroy a multiverse through its existence alone couldn't hax Alphamon to death.
Alphamon seals him and purges his soul with Digitalize of Soul and calls it a night.
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@Hokage
Apparently he resisted a temporal regression that affect the entire Digital World and came out it no worse for wear. Little iffy on this one though.
He was also capable of resisting the abilities of ZeedMillenniummon (2-A) who can manipulate and destroy entire timelines. While this was a far stronger version of Alphamon (3-A), Zeed was still much stronger than he was at that time. Also, Alphamon's ablities seem to be consistent throughout his incarnations with only his base stats changing from version to version.
This would imply that even in his 5-B state, he can still resist and counter the hax of being who should be superior to him. Though, how much would be up to debate and I don't think Yhwach is that superior to him.
Apparently he resisted a temporal regression that affect the entire Digital World and came out it no worse for wear. Little iffy on this one though.
He was also capable of resisting the abilities of ZeedMillenniummon (2-A) who can manipulate and destroy entire timelines. While this was a far stronger version of Alphamon (3-A), Zeed was still much stronger than he was at that time. Also, Alphamon's ablities seem to be consistent throughout his incarnations with only his base stats changing from version to version.
This would imply that even in his 5-B state, he can still resist and counter the hax of being who should be superior to him. Though, how much would be up to debate and I don't think Yhwach is that superior to him.
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To add to it even further, Alphamon is very consistently portrayed as being the evolution of Knightmon, who is almost always the evolution of Clockmon, who is the overseer of space-time and manages the balance of it throughout the digital world (and possibly multiverse).
There's also some promotional text for one of the movies that says Alphamon "transcended space-time to save the world!", but I dunno if that can be used here. But yeah, safe to say that Alphamon has his basis covered when it comes to Time Resistance.
On another note, he's also really big, so he has that going for him.
There's also some promotional text for one of the movies that says Alphamon "transcended space-time to save the world!", but I dunno if that can be used here. But yeah, safe to say that Alphamon has his basis covered when it comes to Time Resistance.
On another note, he's also really big, so he has that going for him.
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Isn't this a NLF statement. Also, did he had that resistance when he was 5-B? If not, it shouldn't be use in this versus. If yes, why isn't this an outlier. It should only be use in his 2-A tier.TheC2 said:
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His resistance to time manipulation in 5-B?
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Those are not 5-B resistance feats. If he resist that in 5-B is either an outlier or will apply as resistance to his 2-A/2-C Tier.
What resistance to time manipulation does he have in 5-B? From WarGreymon, MetalGarurumon or Omegamon.
What resistance to time manipulation does he have in 5-B? From WarGreymon, MetalGarurumon or Omegamon.
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@Hokage
There's still the fact that he went through a reboot of the Digital World unscathed as C2 brought up earlier.
There's also the fact that the Royal Knights' hax resistance is extremely consistent, as the versions of the RKs I mentioned earlier were struggling to stop the falling of the Digital World in Data Squad (which is depicted as akin to a large planetoid in that continuity).
There's still the fact that he went through a reboot of the Digital World unscathed as C2 brought up earlier.
There's also the fact that the Royal Knights' hax resistance is extremely consistent, as the versions of the RKs I mentioned earlier were struggling to stop the falling of the Digital World in Data Squad (which is depicted as akin to a large planetoid in that continuity).
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We haven't even gotten to the Alpha InForce. How does that work when you consider NLF? Because, I've never heard anything to get around it other being so powerful that it doesn't matter. At least that's my impression.
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If you're using 5-B Alphamon you can't use his 2-A or 2-C feats or powers. Period. If he was 5-B when he did those feats, they are either taken as outliers or they are apply to his 2-A or 2-C upgrade as feats.
I'll ask again, what resistance to time manipulation does he have in 5-B? "From WarGreymon, MetalGarurumon or Omegamon." Which are the people he is powerscale from and closes to his 5-B tier.
I'll ask again, what resistance to time manipulation does he have in 5-B? "From WarGreymon, MetalGarurumon or Omegamon." Which are the people he is powerscale from and closes to his 5-B tier.
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@TheC2
It's almost never popped up as it would break the story in two. The only reason why we really know its mechanics is through its official description.
"...an ultimate force which, in battle, instantaneously replays the elapsed battle, although Alphamon's attacks are over in just an instant, you can't grasp how many attacks it actually unleashed, and in theory, you can only see the final blow that brought down its opponent."
Thus by instantly replaying the battle, Alphamon is able to save scum, and by replaying his attacks, he can unleash an incalculable number of attacks.
@Hokage
These are his 5-B feats granted through power-scaling.
It's almost never popped up as it would break the story in two. The only reason why we really know its mechanics is through its official description.
"...an ultimate force which, in battle, instantaneously replays the elapsed battle, although Alphamon's attacks are over in just an instant, you can't grasp how many attacks it actually unleashed, and in theory, you can only see the final blow that brought down its opponent."
Thus by instantly replaying the battle, Alphamon is able to save scum, and by replaying his attacks, he can unleash an incalculable number of attacks.
@Hokage
These are his 5-B feats granted through power-scaling.
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Those feats are not 5-B lvl when he tanked a being stronger than himself. That automatically upgrades him, along with those feats. Therefore, you are using 2-C/2-A feats as his durability. Which is a stomp in his favor, and Yhwach can't harm him in anyway. Therefore this is not even a match.
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I say Yhwach loses due to Alphamon's Alpha Inforce and Resistances. Alpha Inforce can only be countered by someone who is Acausual. As it is Causality Manipulation. Not to mention his other skills.
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I don't think this is a case of 'can Yhwach hax Alphamon to death?' as it is 'can Yhwach's hax save his own skin?'
Yhwach has the capacity to atleast hurt Alphamon and I made this thread based on the concept that while you can't really seem affect RKs with hax unless you're vastly more powerful than them (I could be wrong about that), you can (for the most part) bring them down with brute force if you have enough.
Another question would be if Alphamon's Alpha InForce can make it so that Yhwach can't undo his own death by switching the future around and how does Yhwach's ability to understand anything he sees affect any of this?
Finally, I'm thinking all of this with the notion that Alphamon's hax resistances scale with him. Though, again, I could be utterly wrong. My point earlier about his resistances was based on the thinking that he hax resistances no matter his incarnation but maybe not to the same extent. Ergo, his 3-A incarnation would have much higher resistance than his 5-B.
Yhwach has the capacity to atleast hurt Alphamon and I made this thread based on the concept that while you can't really seem affect RKs with hax unless you're vastly more powerful than them (I could be wrong about that), you can (for the most part) bring them down with brute force if you have enough.
Another question would be if Alphamon's Alpha InForce can make it so that Yhwach can't undo his own death by switching the future around and how does Yhwach's ability to understand anything he sees affect any of this?
Finally, I'm thinking all of this with the notion that Alphamon's hax resistances scale with him. Though, again, I could be utterly wrong. My point earlier about his resistances was based on the thinking that he hax resistances no matter his incarnation but maybe not to the same extent. Ergo, his 3-A incarnation would have much higher resistance than his 5-B.
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Well Alpha Inforce activate automatically if Alphamon is losing or is about to die. And he attacks in an infinite amount of points in space time to make it seem as though his opponent was felled in an instant.
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As others have said, if we purely restrict it to his Adventure Showings, he (along with Jesmon) survived the Digital World resetting on itself with seemingly no issues.
Beyond that, Alphamon has a pretty diverse movepool to pick from, he's not a one trick pony. Digitization of the Soul summons a familiar (weirdly enough it seems to have nothing to do with Soul or Data hax), Alpha InForce which has been gone over and a few more stuff that isn't nearly as interesting.
Not saying Alphamon is gonna stomp, because he wont, but with Time Resistance, summoning, save scumming and then some I think he has this one.
Beyond that, Alphamon has a pretty diverse movepool to pick from, he's not a one trick pony. Digitization of the Soul summons a familiar (weirdly enough it seems to have nothing to do with Soul or Data hax), Alpha InForce which has been gone over and a few more stuff that isn't nearly as interesting.
Not saying Alphamon is gonna stomp, because he wont, but with Time Resistance, summoning, save scumming and then some I think he has this one.
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@C2
It's fine and dandy if Yhwach understands Alphamon's power, but he certainly isn't stealing or manipulating it due to the latter's resistances.
But yeah, the two are relatively equally physically, so they will trade blows, but ultimately, Alphamon could probably just purge Yhwach's soul and seal him in the fabric of space and time since he hasn't shown resistance to that.
Plus, Yhwach is not dodging an infinite number of attacks from an infinite number of directions.
It's fine and dandy if Yhwach understands Alphamon's power, but he certainly isn't stealing or manipulating it due to the latter's resistances.
But yeah, the two are relatively equally physically, so they will trade blows, but ultimately, Alphamon could probably just purge Yhwach's soul and seal him in the fabric of space and time since he hasn't shown resistance to that.
Plus, Yhwach is not dodging an infinite number of attacks from an infinite number of directions.
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Then I think we can close this because it doesn't seem like there's anything Yhwach can do.
Sidenote: Man, Alphaman and the RKs might as well be called the hax killers. I had so many ideas for them but I don't know who is even a suitable opponent.
Sidenote: Man, Alphaman and the RKs might as well be called the hax killers. I had so many ideas for them but I don't know who is even a suitable opponent.
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If it's a mismatch, maybe Yhwach should be given access to Sternritter powers.
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@Burning Full Fingers
Wouldn't matter much, given that Alphamon can easily resist Gremmy's relatively pathetic Reality Warping, Instantly heal away any damage from the X-Axis, reset the battle when Yhwach uses The Compulsory, has stared down things much scarier than anything As Nodt pull off, and seal Yhwach away when he tries to use The Miracle.
Wouldn't matter much, given that Alphamon can easily resist Gremmy's relatively pathetic Reality Warping, Instantly heal away any damage from the X-Axis, reset the battle when Yhwach uses The Compulsory, has stared down things much scarier than anything As Nodt pull off, and seal Yhwach away when he tries to use The Miracle.
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How is Alphamon bypassing, Yhwach's The Almighty + The Wind + Vanishing Point?
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Pretty sure Alpha Inforce can do such.
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Much more powerful characters have tried to use Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, and Mind Manipulation on him. Cosmic resets have failed to budge him. Plus, The Wind clearly has limits, since Senjumaru was able to modify Nianzol's coat to impale him.
Besides, Vanishing Point is useless when Alphamon can simply attack from an infinite number of directions at once.
Besides, Vanishing Point is useless when Alphamon can simply attack from an infinite number of directions at once.
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Vanishing Point is limited to what he sees, Almighty sees all possible futures, unless his under effects of illusions. Also, Almighty makes Yhwach immune to Alphamon's powers.
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You realize Alphamon attacks the past, future and present. Is Yhwach acausual?
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Those feats have no value in this match. If they do it will be a stomp in Alphamon's favor, if they are allowed it would be PIS either way, since we are not using Alphamon in Tier 3-A, 2-C or 2-A resistance, durability or attack potency.Reppuzan said:
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@Hokage
Regardless, it's been generally agreed on threads like Hakumen and Terumi vs Yhwach that resistance to Time Manipulation makes you resistant to the effects of The Almighty, since it relies on manipulating the future, which is a subset of time.
It's not really PIS if it's happened on a half-dozen occasions. Furthermore, the cosmic reset included a complete and utter mind wipe, so there's that too.
Regardless, it's been generally agreed on threads like Hakumen and Terumi vs Yhwach that resistance to Time Manipulation makes you resistant to the effects of The Almighty, since it relies on manipulating the future, which is a subset of time.
It's not really PIS if it's happened on a half-dozen occasions. Furthermore, the cosmic reset included a complete and utter mind wipe, so there's that too.
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Why would it be PIS? Alphamon has a long and surprisingly consistent history of surviving time based hax. From Adventure (5-B), the Manga, to even obscure video games like World DS.
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Here we go with this again. Alphamon's resistances and abilities do not change in any media. He is built the same in EVERY version of himself( Herself in Cyber Sleuth.). Nothing about his/her abilities or resistances ever change.
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It will be PIS to allowed feats that are consider outliers to the current Tier who is fighting Yhwach.
If Alphamon gain those feats in Tier 5-B , they are suppose to prove that he is 3-A. They would only applied to his 3-A feats. Goku can't use his SSJ feats againts Ginyu.
What resistance in 5-B does Alphamon haves that are not 3-A feats? Using them will be a stomp, meaning Yhwach can't do anything to him, since Yhwach can't harm 3-A characters.
If Alphamon gain those feats in Tier 5-B , they are suppose to prove that he is 3-A. They would only applied to his 3-A feats. Goku can't use his SSJ feats againts Ginyu.
What resistance in 5-B does Alphamon haves that are not 3-A feats? Using them will be a stomp, meaning Yhwach can't do anything to him, since Yhwach can't harm 3-A characters.
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If a match is a stomp then it's a stomp. We never said it wasn't.
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Well, no. The Royal Knights didn't "tank" hits from Zeed by any stretch of the word, they just survived his hax abilities narrowly. I believe Reppuzan showed me scans of the Royal Knights surviving time hax from Yggdrasil as well. Then theirs lore that implies Alphamon isn't really affected by time based attacks at all.
This illusory holy knight transcended space-time to save the world!
Source
This illusory holy knight transcended space-time to save the world!
Source
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If a match is a stomp is closed, without adding results. I though you knew that. Why would you approved a continuation?
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That only proof my point. His resistance applies to a tier higher than Yhwach making it a stomp. Yhwach can't do anything to Alphamon with Time Manipulation. Is the same as not having powers.Darkanine said:
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