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Is Alphamon's Time manipulation linear or are they multiple time-lines?
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Alphamon (5-B) vs Yhwach (5-B)
- Thread starter C2_of_Omegon
- Start date
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@Hokage
Alphamon doesn't control time, it's more like looping causality to get the outcome he wants. The closest comparison I can make is Determination from Undertale.
Don't exactly see how tanking a cosmic reset translates into AP. It just means that he's unaffected by Mind Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, and Reality Warping.
Alphamon doesn't control time, it's more like looping causality to get the outcome he wants. The closest comparison I can make is Determination from Undertale.
Don't exactly see how tanking a cosmic reset translates into AP. It just means that he's unaffected by Mind Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, and Reality Warping.
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So, his power is similar to The Balance?
That is a NLF.
That is a NLF.
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A 5-B character can't have resistence to 3-4 feats unless he is upgraded to 3-A or is either a NLF or outlier.
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The Royal Knights are generally capable of tanking hax from foes far above them in raw power.
Is it an oddity? Of course. Does it justify an upgrade? Maybe, but it would contradict Adventure's other showings.
Anyways, since this thread is quickly devolving into an Alphamon upgrade thread with no one voting in favor of Yhwach, I'm closing this tomorrow morning if no one has anything else to input.
Is it an oddity? Of course. Does it justify an upgrade? Maybe, but it would contradict Adventure's other showings.
Anyways, since this thread is quickly devolving into an Alphamon upgrade thread with no one voting in favor of Yhwach, I'm closing this tomorrow morning if no one has anything else to input.
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Besides, Orihime's powers can reject events, [1], [2] and she couldn't reject Ichigo's bankai. [3] Which Yhwach destroy in all futures, by "future manipulation", and making that weapon unable to be rejected until the past is modify, or changed by another character, [4], [5] she couldn't also reject the soul king's dead, [6],[7], [8] doesn't that make him immune to casuality manipulation, Yhwach as well after absorbing his powers?
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Alphamon's powers have been consistently shown to be a higher-grade than Orihime's (who was never really all that relevant outside of healing and the occasional one scene per hundred or so chapters). Not to mention the fact that she doesn't have the same resistances as him.
Furthermore, Orihime's powers are targeted over a specific area, compared to Alphamon's Alpha InForce, which allows him to forcibly return everything back to the way they started, and thus once again of a much higher grade than Orihime's.
You're going to have to discuss the Causality Manipulation Resistance with AizenSama, since being Acausal is a pretty big jump.
Furthermore, Orihime's powers are targeted over a specific area, compared to Alphamon's Alpha InForce, which allows him to forcibly return everything back to the way they started, and thus once again of a much higher grade than Orihime's.
You're going to have to discuss the Causality Manipulation Resistance with AizenSama, since being Acausal is a pretty big jump.
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Why do you bring AP now? I thought it didn't matter to you.
Have Alphamon reverted or tanked something that will affect ALL of your possible futures?
Have Alphamon reverted or tanked something that will affect ALL of your possible futures?
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@Hokage
It's less an AP thing and more of a hax potency thing. Alphamon's Alpha InForce is simply stronger than Orihime's rejection. That's it.
As we've stated before, Alphamon was completely unaffected by characters who can affect an infinite number of timelines and all of time and space on a scale that Yhwach can only dream of, but you declared those outliers despite Alphamon's incredible consistency regarding his ability to resist hax.
It's less an AP thing and more of a hax potency thing. Alphamon's Alpha InForce is simply stronger than Orihime's rejection. That's it.
As we've stated before, Alphamon was completely unaffected by characters who can affect an infinite number of timelines and all of time and space on a scale that Yhwach can only dream of, but you declared those outliers despite Alphamon's incredible consistency regarding his ability to resist hax.
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So, Hax Potency is aloud forward, but not backwards. Talk about NLF, and outliers.Reppuzan said:
How is affecting all timlines and futures at once different from affecting all timelines and futures at once? Plus the difference that things affected by Yhwach cannot be change, unless you change the past.
Does Alphamon have powers to change the past? If not he can't do anything.
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He resets the entire fight while also attacking the past, present and future. Simple as that. He attacks an infinite amount of times through space and time. I don't see how Yhwach will counter that.
Also it is not a NLF seeing as Alphamon is created with the EXACT same resistances and powers in EVERY media. That is how Digimon works. Whether you like it or not. Plus this feats is consistent to all Alphamons. So drop it. It's getting annoying.
Also it is not a NLF seeing as Alphamon is created with the EXACT same resistances and powers in EVERY media. That is how Digimon works. Whether you like it or not. Plus this feats is consistent to all Alphamons. So drop it. It's getting annoying.
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Since it's agreed that Alphamon stomps, maybe this should be closed before it devolves into something else. Or could The Deathdealing or The Compulsory help Yhwach here?
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If there is nothing else to add, this thread should be closed. However, if a case can be made for Yhwach, that is a different story. However, I can't see as it stands.
-Yhwach can't really hax Alphamon to any degree that can't be ignored or he can't tank and regenerate from. Even Sternritter powers don't do much in the long run.
-Alphamon's capabilities render the Almighty useless no matter what future Yhwach would observe, all of them would filled by Alphamon's attacks. There's no future for him to switch to.
-If Yhwach forces the AlphaInForce to activate, the battle resets but Alphamon keeps all his memories of the previous fight, thus giving him a leg up.
The only thing I can think of is Yhwach's power immunity. Once he knows about a power, he becomes immune to it but I don't know its' limits. Even if it does work than the fight is a draw becuase neither can do anything to the other.
-Yhwach can't really hax Alphamon to any degree that can't be ignored or he can't tank and regenerate from. Even Sternritter powers don't do much in the long run.
-Alphamon's capabilities render the Almighty useless no matter what future Yhwach would observe, all of them would filled by Alphamon's attacks. There's no future for him to switch to.
-If Yhwach forces the AlphaInForce to activate, the battle resets but Alphamon keeps all his memories of the previous fight, thus giving him a leg up.
The only thing I can think of is Yhwach's power immunity. Once he knows about a power, he becomes immune to it but I don't know its' limits. Even if it does work than the fight is a draw becuase neither can do anything to the other.
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@TheC2 That will lead to NLF for Yhwach's power immunity plus he doesn't know about Alphamon's powers anyway.
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@Rep Either way, it is more than likely goes to Alphamen plus he also has Data manipulation on his profile which I wonder what will happen if that can affect reality and I think we being a bit too generous regarding power nullification. Plus it was said on Yhwach's profile it wasn't power immunity just only power nullification.
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Mayuri can do that with a drug. -.- Fodder.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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And here is the downplay... Does Mayuri attack in an infinite amount of places in space time? I didn't think so. Plus Mayuri's is nowhere as strong as Alphamon who does it without a drug and does it as part of his being. You haven't countered how Alpha Inforce could not defeat Yhwach. All you've done is scream NLF all over the place and act really biased. Also I like how you focused on that one point and didn't reply to the other part. Also why bring in Mayuri when he is...HokageMangaVox said:
1) Not in this fight.
2) Far weaker than Alphamon and doesn't even compare.
3) Irrelevant.
4) Does not have acausality.
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Heck Yhwach doesn't even have Acausality.
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-Yhwach has the power to see that Alphamon can change timelines.
-Yhwach can see all futures at once, and has shown to manipulate all of them in one single thought. By breaking Ichigo's bankai in all future's even do there is a future were he losses. (AP is ignore.)
With Yhwach there are no linear futures, so traveling back to kill him is not a possibility.
A paradox could be created, but Alphamon would only fight and possible kill Yhwach in another timeline. The one currently here won't die if Alphamon created another timeline, unless Alphamon has the power to erase you from all timelines.
And the loop would continue on, since Yhwach becomes immune to Alphamo's powers after seeing them, since hax is not base on AP, but sure let use it againts durability. Why not? Reppuzan is down with it. And that is why i say is a NLF to give characters feats from other tiers. You can't give your past self a feat from the future, since the current version has not reach that point, yet.
-Yhwach can see all futures at once, and has shown to manipulate all of them in one single thought. By breaking Ichigo's bankai in all future's even do there is a future were he losses. (AP is ignore.)
With Yhwach there are no linear futures, so traveling back to kill him is not a possibility.
A paradox could be created, but Alphamon would only fight and possible kill Yhwach in another timeline. The one currently here won't die if Alphamon created another timeline, unless Alphamon has the power to erase you from all timelines.
And the loop would continue on, since Yhwach becomes immune to Alphamo's powers after seeing them, since hax is not base on AP, but sure let use it againts durability. Why not? Reppuzan is down with it. And that is why i say is a NLF to give characters feats from other tiers. You can't give your past self a feat from the future, since the current version has not reach that point, yet.
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Since when has Yhwach have Acausality. Nothing on his file says he has resistance to causality manipulation. Nothing at all.
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Once again, Yhwach doesn't have time manipulation and second of all, Alphamon will use Alpha Inforce to reset the battle to the start when he can infinitely attack him from all directions. Also even if Yhwach can see all futures, can he prevented them all from coming to pass?
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I don't know. But with Yhwach there is no linear future, attacking him in the past won't affect the present him, same happen when Tsukishima alter the past in Ichigo's bankai. Only that weapon was affected in current time, no other changes were made to the time line. Ichigo still got beat up, and Yhwach left for SS with Ichigo's stolen powers.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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Isn't manipulating the future, well, time manipulation? He can use its powers, the time reset won't work on Yhwach. Yhwach doesn't negate powers according to the manga, he becomes immnue to them. Unless PIS is involve, we saw him destroy Ichigo's weapon in all futures.Starkiller215 said:
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@Hokage You do realize he rewrote the past for Ichigo's sword and only that one time plus that is leadng to the NLF going by what you supposedly claim that one for Yhwach as he (Tsukishima is the one I am referring to here) can rewrite a person's past by touching them with his Fullbringer. Tskishima has to physically touch them to rewrite the past and in return he can change the past. Yhwach can be affected in the past as he can not change the past or even rewrite that past for that matter. He can only rewrite the Future with his Almighty on.
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