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Alovenas 1-A+ Downgrade

@Ultima & Agnaa Thank you for helping out.

@Ultima

So would you be willing to improve the tier explanation/justification in the Alovenas page?
 
Nepuko said:
But wouldn't just be an ever-increasing 1-A instead of 1-A+? Since an infinitely increasing 1-B is still 1-B, and not High 1-B. But if you think 1-A+ is possible, alright then.
Click to expand...
This, even if it does display infinite at every level checked, that doesn't mean that it's infinite on infinite levels.
 
Nepuko said:
But wouldn't just be an ever-increasing 1-A instead of 1-A+? Since an infinitely increasing 1-B is still 1-B, and not High 1-B. But if you think 1-A+ is possible, alright then.
Click to expand...
She is ever increasing but on higher scale, if 1-A+ stop increasing when they reach the top of infinity hierarchy, Alovenas keep transcending beyond that, thats what's i mean by "increasing infinitely"
 
So uhm... Seems like the problem here is the justification?.

Should "Her transcendence always increasing and reach the top of infinite hierarchy, and keep transcending beyond that indefinitely" work?

Or we still discuss the scan or anything?
 
We still discuss the scan.

I don't like that the only thing implying infinite layers is the "infinity ^ infinity" statement. Especially when a slightly more accurate translation is taken.

Your translation was:

in an instant, Ruphas stats become "∞" and "∞" characters continues to be displayed at any level, Infinite^infinite, with this anything can be cleared up easily, even by merely existing, Ultimate Universe disappear like dust.
But that has different punctuation to the original. Keeping those word translations and fixing the punctuation gives us:


in an instant, Ruphas stats become "∞" and "∞" characters continues to be displayed at any level.

Infinite^infinite. With this anything can be cleared up easily, even by merely existing, Ultimate Universe disappear like dust.
The "infinite^infinite" part can only mean infinite layers when combined with the previous paragraph, which seems really tenuous. I'd be okay with this as supporting evidence, but not as the only thing implying that the hierarchy's infinite.
 
I mean before that Alovenas clearly said that infinite is just one of another infinities so if higher infinities contain infinite number of ∞ then it also can be evidence for the hierarchy.

And "higher world" is not stated only once, there is many implication that higher world preceive the lower as molecule/Cell/dust or anything insignificant, but if we go by the context here, since its come from the same chapter its most likely refers to "paper" rather than molecule/Cell.


Even then Alovenas also said that her power is boundless she can get any kind power she want, and in the white room any kind of limitations is not exist at all, hence why they can arbitrarily increase their transcendence.
 
I.e. if you think the top of infinity hierarchy is the limit then you are wrong, Alovenas just want Ruphas and Co know what she means by "no bounds" even infinity ia just 1 before her.
 
It doesn't say that "an infinite amount of higher infinities contain infinite number of ∞", it just says the ∞ "continues to be displayed at any level" which is vague and not infinite.

And "higher world" is not stated only once, there is many implication that higher world preceive the lower as molecule/Cell/dust or anything insignificant, but if we go by the context here, since its come from the same chapter its most likely refers to "paper" rather than molecule/Cell.

I know it's not stated once. My issue is not over whether the layers are superior to each other or not, but over whether there's infinitely many layers or not.
 
Example

Ruphas power = ∞ (baseline)

Alovenas "hahaha ∞ is just 1 before me and im 100 Times stronger than than" = ∞, ∞, ∞ ... ∞^100 ( 100 transcendence )

Ruphas "okay im stronger than that because my ∞ is infinite " = ∞, ∞, ∞, ∞...∞^∞ (infinite transcendence)

And they both keep repeat the same thing infinitely.
 
We're never told that the exponentiation is describing the number of layers.

It's just said with zero context.
 
Oh.. my bad

When they describe the difference each infinity and when they increase it to infinite^infinite and keep transcending beyond that all of that come from the same chapter and the same arc as well as the same fight.
 
So what should we do here?
 
GLHF22 said:
Nepuko said:
But wouldn't just be an ever-increasing 1-A instead of 1-A+? Since an infinitely increasing 1-B is still 1-B, and not High 1-B. But if you think 1-A+ is possible, alright then.
Click to expand...
She is ever increasing but on higher scale, if 1-A+ stop increasing when they reach the top of infinity hierarchy, Alovenas keep transcending beyond that, thats what's i mean by "increasing infinitely"
Click to expand...
Well, the thing is "ever-increasing" ain't rlly 1-A+ without some proper contect behind that. Even if each "higher infinity" was supposedly a level of transcendence, if her level of transcendence "keeps increasing infinitely" then by the standards of the wiki, it is an extremely high level of 1-A. Since she's not at the "infinitieth" layer, she's 'merely' ever-increasing, forever.

GLHF22 said:
Ruphas "okay im stronger than that because my ∞ is infinite " = ∞, ∞, ∞, ∞...∞^∞ (infinite transcendence) And they both keep repeat the same thing infinitely.
Click to expand...
Hm, interesting. Might give me the quote showing exactly that part? From those that you showed, the highest impression I got was that they reach higher infinities, infinitely. So maybe I missed it.
 
Well, at this point, I am not particularly inclined to agree with either side here, unless we can arrange a more reliable translation. Much of the issue here seems to stem from how vague the syntax of the excerpts is, which in turn comes from how clumsily translated they are in the first place, hence we have two conflicting interpretations of them here.
 
Okay. Feel free to ask ShiroyashaGinSa and other members fluent in Japanese for help if you wish.
 
Have you asked all the Japanese-speaking members for help?
 
Yes, ChocomilkAlex will help with translating.
 
Okay im back, my Exam is delayed due to the covid-19 for 2 weeks or more, i think i Will have a plenty of time, but still im mentaly tired after passing 2 Exam and im still have 3 more Exam to go (National Exam with 4 subjects, Graduation Exam with 10 subjects and sertificate Exam with 1 subject).

Yeah, my mind almost explode due to those Exam since i have to study very hard, i mean the Exam is followed by another without any break.
 
Okay. At least you might get enough time to sleep properly for a few weeks now.
 
We've gotten a translation but I'm not sure what Ultima thinks about it.
 
Well, even though the translation we were given puts a dent in Alovenas being infinite levels above baseline 1-A, Chocomilk has said the "infinity to the infinity'th power" thing is a fair translation as well, so I am unsure on that regard, admitedly.

Maybe a "At least Outerverse level, likely/possibly up to Outerverse level+" (Either that or a "possibly/likely higher") would be appropriate here? The "infinity^infinity" mentioned in the text is clearly meant to put emphasis on her power being increased after already reaching ∞, but it's mentioned so suddenly and out of nowhere that interpretations could go both ways, as shown by pretty much this entire thread.
 
SCP-3812, before the recent revisions, was "Hyperverse level, possibly higher" if that's a relevant case study.

I'm not sure on exactly what to do but none of these suggestions seem egregiously bad.
 
Where is the new translation available? It's been mentioned, but I don't think it's been linked. I might be able to give my completely inconsequential and probably useless input.
 
The translation's available here.
 
Hmm... the translated text is a bit hard to decipher, though with accurate, non-adulterated translations, that's to be expected.

With what I can understand from the text, along with the suggestions offered in the thread so far, I can probably support something along the lines of "At least 1-A, possibly higher".
 
Possibly higher/1-A+ are literally the same thing

Anyway, are we reach the conclusion?.
 
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