Dust_Collector
They/Them- 9,279
- 12,046
No it's a real scan, it was heavily memed on when Kakarot first came out for how it made 0 sense.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
- 3,333
- 3,802
It could be mistranslated. Do you happen to know where, in Kakarot, I can find this? I wanna check the raws.
Last edited:
- 624
- 213
They accepted Kakarot as long as it didn't contradict the manga.
- 624
- 213
Click on the notes
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 6,733
- 6,131
Dragon Ball is taking a crazy hit right now. What a sad day, nothing is going well for any verse I like, damn.
- 3,397
- 2,449
Here you have it
Iirc it appears when you clear that part of the story. I don't remember if it was a permanent or a temporal thing tho
- 3,397
- 2,449
Yeah. My point is: you can't use the Kakarot version of the feat for a calc... if the Kakarot version of the feat is an illusion.
Though if there indeed is proof of it really happening, I guess it fine
- 6,257
- 943
If i really had to guess, it's because they don't update the models in the overworld for night to remove the moon at this point so they added a slap together explanation for why it's in the overworld
- 741
- 134
Idk from where this scan is, I played the game and it says that Piccolo destoyed the moon in the same encyclopedia. So if you show me the way I can get this, I won't believe it's real
- 3,397
- 2,449
- 624
- 213
Honestly, we should ignore that; it contradicts everything. DBZ Kakarot is supposed to show what happened in the manga, so that's how it was portrayed, even if they say it's an illusion.
- 6,257
- 943
Even in the context of the game it's nonesense sense vegeta still dosen't have the moon later
- 4,739
- 814
Why assume that it doesn't exist without proof when prior precedent dictates that it DOES exist without contradictions?
sure, finite examples exist while infinite examples don't, but the way Ki has been treated and described within the narrative is that power and speed are directly related and if someone is stronger, they are also faster to the same degree.
And once again, the wiki ALSO treats this as a direct relationship since you guys choose to NERF SSJG's multiplier to x160,000 in order to speed scale everyone linearly
The literal only reason why you guys aren't willing to give DB Super infinite speed is cuz you guys arbitrarily choose to not apply a direct relationship between AP and speed for no actual reason besides "we don't have proof and therefore we are willing to ignore all prior precedent" while simultaneously hypocritically applying said precedent to SSJG after nerfing it's multiplier to not be infinite for the same lack of reason.
like at this point just ignore multipliers and chain scaling altogether if you need solid proof every single damn time. SSJG gaps the entire rest of Super cuz the likes of SSGSS KKx20 is 9A for just cracking the tiles of the U6 Tournament a bit, or make Ultra Instinct Goku like 4B for just destroying the Katchi Katchin arena and nothing else.
make it make sense
- 3,397
- 2,449
Even if the Moon was still there, the battle took place mid day, so he'd need an artificial Moon regardless.
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,741
- 1,065
Immeasurable speed Goku soon...
- 4,739
- 814
like I'm genuinely confused why infinite speed for DBS can't be fathomed when infinite power can
and I'm also genuinely confused why "infinite 2C" or "infinite within the boundaries of 3 2C" also can't be fathomed when plenty of characters on this site CAN be treated this way
like you guys get x160,000 from downscaling the multipler since the math technically can't be done, even though it actually CAN be explained by the tiering system
"Because the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the sub-tiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A. This does not mean that the difference between these tiers is greater than infinite, merely that the difference is unknown.
SSJG having an infinite multiplier would still make him 2C since "the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable", but it doesn't mean that infinite WITHIN the SAME number of universes is impossible
and I'm also genuinely confused why "infinite 2C" or "infinite within the boundaries of 3 2C" also can't be fathomed when plenty of characters on this site CAN be treated this way
like you guys get x160,000 from downscaling the multipler since the math technically can't be done, even though it actually CAN be explained by the tiering system
"Because the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the sub-tiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A. This does not mean that the difference between these tiers is greater than infinite, merely that the difference is unknown.
SSJG having an infinite multiplier would still make him 2C since "the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable", but it doesn't mean that infinite WITHIN the SAME number of universes is impossible
- 4,739
- 814
well
infinite^2 isn't immeasurable I don't think
but surely there are levels of infinite speed. Just because both characters have infinite speed doesn't mean they are the same speed
I mean, Toei Post RoSaT Cell Saga Base Goku is clearly slower than the likes of Omega Shenron despite both of them being infinite speed
- 4,739
- 814
oi oi why am I being flamed for this lmao
he's the one who said the ToP timer disproves infinite speed
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,741
- 1,065
I'm not an expert on super high tier scaling but infinite speed in particular causes much more narrative problems than infinite power does.
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,741
- 1,065
We do currently accept chain scaling infinite speed so ye
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 6,733
- 6,131
2^infinite would be.
- 4,739
- 814
except Toei managed to slide in Infinite Speed completely by accident cuz the authors forgot Otherworld was infinite in size
and no other infinite speed feat actually exists. Why would the Black Star Dragon Ball arc even exist at all if Goku has Infinite Speed and Spaceflight on his profile?
- 4,739
- 814
no?
2 to the power of infinity is just infinity
that's not immeasurable
infinite speed on this site is positive distance over 0 time
immeasurable speed is positive distance over negative time
feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I've interpreted
- 6,257
- 943
Easy the higher infinite application needs it's own proof. The higher the rating the more proof there needs to be, there is no evidence of it working at that extreme so we don't assume it dose. Perfectly self consistent logic you just don't like it.
It's perfectly possible for relationships observed at lower thresholds to break down at vastly higher ones, thie isn't some impossibility It's just normal
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 6,733
- 6,131
Not even close to being true.
In countable infinity, the powerset of this set generates the cardinality of the real numbers, represented as 2^aleph0. It jumps to the next "set" of infinity.
- 4,739
- 814
oh, my b
but wouldn't that just be... more infinite speed?
like infinite speed chain scaling exists where characters are infinite even compared to other infinite speed characters, but they're still infinite speed
how does that allow them to travel back in time with sheer speed
- 624
- 213
That reminds me of my DBZ toei scaling chain; I got up to, I think, quadrillion infinite speeds.
Skarfz
He/Him- 250
- 133
does dragon ball even consider any character having infinite power at all aside from like zeno? im not saying that db isn't 2-C in this site's standards, im just saying that maybe they just treat DB as like "goku can blow up universe 7 which has 3 universe sized realms by having lots of energy and multipliers, so hes multiversal" if you know what i mean.
Breadbear83
He/Him- 781
- 489
Everytime a new big guy comes the narrator/characters claim they can destroy the universe as a big deal, as if the previous big guy actually couldn't, so not like they ever intended an infinite power gap
- 14,147
- 7,405
Nobody in DB has infinite power, where did you get that from? Goku is 2-C because he affected two separate universe-sized space-time continuums, and that doesn’t even give him infinite power. If Goku really had infinite power, his ki wouldn’t get exhausted during fights.
Breadbear83
He/Him- 781
- 489
Has anyone ever tried to scale DBZ manga characters to spaceships? Like statements or feats of their reactions being comparable to them?
The Toei scaling already used a feat of Goku keeping with the speed of the spaceship he used to go to namek, and DBS manga has 2 feats about that
But for example Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin sensing the Special forces Ginyu heading to namek, and Kaiosama keeping up with Goku's spaceship going to namek (telepathically)
Maybe there's a past CRT around that
The Toei scaling already used a feat of Goku keeping with the speed of the spaceship he used to go to namek, and DBS manga has 2 feats about that
But for example Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin sensing the Special forces Ginyu heading to namek, and Kaiosama keeping up with Goku's spaceship going to namek (telepathically)
Maybe there's a past CRT around that
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,741
- 1,065
We currently have an accepted calc of Super Piccolo sniping down a MFTL spaceship I think but I dunno about Z characters
- 4,739
- 814
nothing in the series has any indication that shows ki not being proportional. The narrative implication is that the stronger you are the faster you are, and the series's heavy emphasis on multipliers affecting EVERY aspect of one's stats encourages this. Every time someone powers up they get stronger and faster to the same degree, and the author's intent is for power ups to make you stronger and faster to the same degree
It's more reasonable to claim that it stays consistent than claim that it isn't simply because it doesn't satisfy your preferences. The FACT of the matter is that it IS consistent, it HAS BEEN consistent, and it's INTENDED to be consistent, and claiming otherwise is just wrong
- 4,739
- 814
I find it frankly ridiculous when characters with infinite life energy using a power system that says life energy can be used to enhance every part of the body can't also use said infinite life energy to boost their speed infinitely
- 6,257
- 943
If this is true you should have no problem finding specific evidence for that when taken to an infinite scale.
When going to extremes correlation can break. Without more evidence of it working st this extreme it can't be used this isn't a matter of preference, I'd probably be thrilled if the wiki had always accepted super as having infinite speed- this is a matter of being rigorous with standards.
Skarfz
He/Him- 250
- 133
You basically said the same thing as i did, unless you meant to say this to someone else.
MichaelCalistro
He/Him- 766
- 121
Question! Is the SFPSJ4 Goku's multiplier for Baby Saga Goku, Super 17 Saga Goku, Shadow Dragon Saga Goku or Post-Negative Karma Ball Goku? Because there are four different SFPSJ4 Gokus. What's the multiplier for all four SFPSJ4 Gokus?Early ToP
- SSBKKx20 Goku: 1.024 Quintillion x 3 Universes (2-C)
- SFPSJ4 Goku: 407.5 Quintillion x 3 Universes (2-C)
Post-Ultra Instinct Omen (second awakening)
- Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 204.8 Quintillion x 3 Universes (2-C)
- SFPSJ4 Goku: 407.5 Quintillion x 3 Universes (2-C)
Dragon Ball Anime: Statistical Ratings
vsbattles.fandom.com
Last edited:
MichaelCalistro
He/Him- 766
- 121
GT Scaling Chain and SSJ4 Multiplier
vsbattles.fandom.com
Episode 29 DBGT Base Goku = 625,000,000 (625 Million)
SFPSJ4 Goku (Baby Saga) 204.8 Million × Episode 29 Goku = 128,000,000,000,000,000 (128 Quadrillion)
SFPSJ4 Goku (Super 17 Saga) 1.6384 Billion × Episode 29 Goku = 1,024,000,000,000,000,000 (1.024 Quintillion)
SFPSJ4 Goku (Shadow Dragon Saga) 16.3 Billion x Episode 29 Goku = 10,187,500,000,000,000 (10.1875 Quadrillion).
Tournament of Power (Pre-Ultra Instinct -Sign-) SSJBKKX20 Goku = 1,024,000,000,000,000,000 (1.024 Quintillion)
Post-Ultra Instinct -Sign- (Second Awakening) SSJ3 Goku = 204,800,000,000,000,000,000 (204.8 Quintillion)
With me doing the actual math here, Tournament of Power (Pre-Ultra Instinct -Sign-) SSJBKKX20 Goku has AP stats as FPSSJ4 Goku (Shadow Dragon Saga)!
Last edited:
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,663
- 2,939
Funnily enough, Urshani, your previous account, already tried to use this same ComicVine thread on PSW and got completely humiliated, so I would not bet on the logical soundness of those arguments.
Your problem is that you think you are smarter than everyone else, when these criticisms have been around since the early days of the site. You have not invented anything.
Similar threads
