All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[Eden_Warlock99]

Daizenshuu 2 declaring that "the level of the matches increased dramatically" since the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament should be grounds for Goku and co. being, bare minimum, above the likes of the Tien Shinhan Saga Goku and Tien, right?

Nah, we know that BoZ Yamcha is weaker than 22nd WT Tien.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Nah, we know that BoZ Yamcha is weaker than 22nd WT Tien.

Not only were the Z-Fighters not at full power when Bulma scanned their Power Levels, but Yamcha's was only three points below Tien's.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Not only were the Z-Fighters not at full power when Bulma scanned their Power Levels, but Yamcha's was only three points below Tien's.

That's a possible valid interpretation, I'd argue Roshi's scanned PL being his full power (139) sorta makes it seem like it's their actual power tho

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The specification is "Your potential/the power you would have gotten in that time."

What this implies is just that (as silly as it may sound) Gas and Granolah would have learned superior IT in/by their old age, Moro's Magic, Hakai, etc. naturally had they lived normal lives and full lifespans rather than compressing and gaining their future power in the present.

Gas dose have sharp ears maybe his extra powers came from some internal demonic potential

Tho they also became the strongest in the universe, there potental is just the base wish, then he offered up his life spam to be the strongest (not counting gods)

 

[Omegabronic]

That's a possible valid interpretation, I'd argue Roshi's scanned PL being his full power (139) sorta makes it seem like it's their actual power tho

it CANNOT be his full power, he isn't Muscular, which is his full power

 

[Maskofthedragon]

I wonder if Movie 5's visuals of Planet Vegeta exploding would provide anything

 

[StarShooter80]

I wonder if Movie 5's visuals of Planet Vegeta exploding would provide anything

It looks more impressive, could potentially be 4-B which is nasty

 

[Nullflowerblush]

King Piccolo can emit from the eyes "熱光線", which reads as "heat rays" ("heat" + "ray [of light]"). Can that be considered Heat Manipulation or a flowery description of standard Ki usage?

 

[StarShooter80]

King Piccolo can emit from the eyes "熱光線", which reads as "heat rays" ("heat" + "ray [of light]"). Can that be considered Heat Manipulation or a flowery description of standard Ki usage?

Well ki beams have shown to generate heat before so yeah it likely can be heat based

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Well ki beams have shown to generate heat before so yeah it likely can be heat based

Tbh if a standard ki blast is hot enough to cook a gaint animal instantly that's pretty good heat manipulation I think

 

[StarShooter80]

So I was doing a draft for a Saiyan physiology.

Are there any issues with this? I don't plan on making a CRT for this though

 

[Hasty12345]

That page looks amazing, but is Ki manipulation a physiological trait of Saiyans? I thought it was a skill attained through training

 

[Tyranno223]

Quick scaling chain off the top of my head based on the what-ifs I've seen:

Spoiler: SZ Story

UI Goku = LB Jiren ? Golden Freeza >> LSS2 Kefla > Base Freeza ~ SSBE Vegeta ~ Ultimate Gohan > GoD Toppo > Merged Zamasu ~ Vegito Blue > Goku Black > Base Vegito ? Gohan Black > Goku Blue ~ King Cold ~ Hit > FF Cooler > (gap) > SS2 Vegeta > SS3 Goku > (gap) > Piccolo = Grade 4 SS Goku

I haven't done the Trunks story yet so I can't comment on what scale his what-if gives him.

If you're using the what ifs, they have internal scaling (and frankly don't make sense. Goku Black Rose can destroy SSB Vegito in the same game SSB Vegito can destroy Fused Zamasu).

What if Golden Frieza does not = (Sparking) Canon Golde Frieza.

 

[StarShooter80]

That page looks amazing, but is Ki manipulation a physiological trait of Saiyans? I thought it was a skill attained through training

Yeah it should be taken out from the sandbox, manipulating ones ki is not something that comes from just being a saiyan

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If you're using the what ifs, they have internal scaling (and frankly don't make sense. Goku Black Rose can destroy SSB Vegito in the same game SSB Vegito can destroy Fused Zamasu).

Pretty sure it's explained in that fight that Goku Black was using his AD to reach those levels. Hence him reaching it against Vegito Blue but not in the other what-ifs. Regardless when I scale Black to that it's him at his strongest what-if form. Which is able to survive fighting Vegito Blue.

What if Golden Frieza does not = (Sparking) Canon Golde Frieza.

I made no distinction between What If, Sparking or Canon or whatever else. I'm just taking them at their strongest in each of their stories.

 

[Tyranno223]

Pretty sure it's explained in that fight that Goku Black was using his AD to reach those levels. Hence him reaching it against Vegito Blue but not in the other what-ifs. Regardless when I scale Black to that it's him at his strongest what-if form. Which is able to survive fighting Vegito Blue.

There wasn't an explanation. Goku Black just could somehow do it. Later, Goku and Vegeta put up a fight against Black and Zamasu after failing with Vegito.

Tenkaichi has always had fun but crazy what-ifs that don't really make sense, it's part of the fun.

 

[Spinoirr]

Are there any issues with this? I don't plan on making a CRT for this though

Add the fact Saiyans apparently don't have a growth spurt till 15

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah it should be taken out from the sandbox, manipulating ones ki is not something that comes from just being a saiyan

Nothing stated about this matter, however it is show that Ki come to Saiyan naturally, they can shoot ki blast and fly without actually knowing it is ki manipulation. Iirc, Vegeta only know about the whole ki manipulation shit until he come to earth

 

[RedReaper616]

Yeah it should be taken out from the sandbox, manipulating ones ki is not something that comes from just being a saiyan

It absolutely is unless you’re Goku and you just born sucking at it relative to the species. Now, manipulating at advanced skill levels beyond manipulating it for flight and energy attacks (ie Raditz) isn’t granted by your physiology, that you do have to learn on your own. Such as the optimal way to approach Ki Use in tandem with forms (SSJ Grades), Ki Sensing, and the creation of techniques that completely sidestep their power-based philosophy (Ala Kaioken, Spirit Bomb, Multiform, Solar Flare, etc.)

 

[Vizer04]

Huh. It occurs to me this totally ignores that at some point another Timeline was generated by some other person who figured out Time Travel before Dragon Ball even started according to DBS.

Yes, a mortal from the 12th Universe figured out time travel hundreds of years before the events of DBZ. But that's irrelevant because we don't know the changes he made by doing that. As far as we know, nothing noteworthy changed.

 

[StarShooter80]

Nothing stated about this matter, however it is show that Ki come to Saiyan naturally, they can shoot ki blast and fly without actually knowing it is ki manipulation. Iirc, Vegeta only know about the whole ki manipulation shit until he come to earth

Then it should be something acquired for mature saiyans naturally

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Then it should be something acquired for mature saiyans naturally

There is the matter of pan flying shortly after her birth

 

[Omegabronic]

That page looks amazing, but is Ki manipulation a physiological trait of Saiyans? I thought it was a skill attained through training

another thing is, since the page says that it is only covering the canon manga and sequels, DBS Anime stuff should be removed as it isn't canon to the manga here anymore

 

[Darkmon_cns]

another thing is, since the page says that it is only covering the canon manga and sequels, DBS Anime stuff should be removed as it isn't canon to the manga here anymore

So you think a separate blog post should be made for the super anime?

Edit: if there very similar the scope of the page should just expand to include super rather then having 2.

 

[Omegabronic]

So you think a separate blog post should be made for the super anime?

Edit: if there very similar the scope of the page should just expand to include super rather then having 2.

i don't think Super Alone has anything enough for such

 

[StarShooter80]

There is the matter of pan flying shortly after her birth

Goku as a kid didn't know anything about Ki until he saw Roshi use the kamehameha, and Bulla has shown nothing of value ki manipulation wise iicr

 

[Phsccarvalho]

My cell phone battery is at 15% and I'm out of the house. I'll answer later.

 

[Sus]

cell

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bulla has shown nothing of value ki manipulation wis

She also have basically no screen time, so citing her as a example is just bad.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Are there any issues with this? I don't plan on making a CRT for this though

The only problems are those left for discussion in a possible crt.

It never happened, because @Omegabronic was in charge of it, and he's busy with the blue hedgehog.

another thing is, since the page says that it is only covering the canon manga and sequels, DBS Anime stuff should be removed as it isn't canon to the manga here anymore

Yes, because of that, I would probably have to throw all the shit from the DBS anime in the trash.

Speaking of which, wouldn't we have to change all the scans of the DBS anime pages that use the manga?

The same thing for the ki manipulation page, since it uses the dbs anime continuing from the manga and not the kai.

 

[RedReaper616]

This also ignores the fact Saiyans just range in capacity. I mean, Goku despite being literally awful is still better than multiple generations of Earthlings, as a Ki Attack like the KHH took 50 years to make and never existed before (with the Dodon Ray and Tri-Beam being made soon after.) Comparatively, (Super) Pan could use Ki out the gate as an infant, as could Z-Broly, with even Gohan having no training and the ability to use Ki inherently so long as his rage flared. Hell, the whole Infiltration Babies schtick was based on the idea a Baby would get sent to a planet, look at their Moon, turn into a big Ki-Empowered Ape, and wreck the planet. Saiyans naturally have the ability to manipulate Ki. It’s just they range from “OP out the gate” to “Literally awful.”

 

[StarShooter80]

The same thing for the ki manipulation page, since it uses the dbs anime continuing from the manga and not the kai.

For og db, should be consider the manga version of events canon to Kai/DBS Anime, or the classic anime?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Having new DB episodic content while being apart of the site will be fun

Opponents will be licking their chops for any downgrades, gonna be scanning each frame of every episode for something

And supporters gonna be waiting for the 1A afterlife claim to drop

 

[Phsccarvalho]

For og db, should be consider the manga version of events canon to Kai/DBS Anime, or the classic anime?

I don't know, I didn't follow the kai continuity crt much.

 

[Huesito88]

Having new DB episodic content while being apart of the site will be fun

Opponents will be liking their chops for any downgrades, gonna be scanning each frame of every episode for something

And supporters gonna be waiting for the 1A afterlife claim to drop

Low 1-A Afterlife =P

 

[StarShooter80]

I don't know, I didn't follow the kai continuity crt much.

I’d say manga for a couple reasons but that’s for a future thread

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

Low 1-A Afterlife =P

I can't wait til daima confirms such lol

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Goku as a kid didn't know anything about Ki until he saw Roshi use the kamehameha, and Bulla has shown nothing of value ki manipulation wise iicr

Goku still managed to do a 50 year in the making tec on his first try- bulla has no screen time so we can't really say for her. Gohan was spitting out massive bursts of power when he was 4, it's hardly inconsistent that they do have a leg up for ki contain.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

King Piccolo can emit from the eyes "熱光線", which reads as "heat rays" ("heat" + "ray [of light]").

Low-key, high-key, given the mystical nature of the Namekians in general,—especially in regards to the Dragon Clan, from which King Piccolo was born through the Nameless Namekian,—and Piccolo's uniquely destructive nature, I'm inclined to give the Demon Clan Elemental Manipulation.

• Cymbal, King Piccolo, and Piccolo Jr. can control electricity (lightning).
  • The Antenna Beam is an inherited technique.
• The Shockwave Fist (air) is noted by Piccolo Jr. as being a Demon Clan technique, which Kami appropriated.
• King Piccolo can unleash heat rays from the eyes (fire).

Obviously, he cannot control water or earth, but, like... who cares?

Unrelated, but,


Daizenshuu 4 describes Ki as "Mind Power" and establishes Ki is incorporeal within the body and is given material form when harnessed.
As in, yes, Ki very well may possess genuine mass.

 

[Huesito88]

Daizenshuu 4 describes Ki as "Mind Power" and establishes Ki is incorporeal within the body and is given material form when harnessed.
As in, yes, Ki very well may possess genuine mass.

Now if only we got a specific mass number then we could get some lifting numbers