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All Might Upgrade

Damage3245 said:
Therefir said:
I agree with Versus, Damage you are saying All Might is not High Hypersonic because he can casually dodge supersonic characters, that makes no sense.
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I think you misread me. I'm saying All Might being Supersonic+ is consistent with him being able to dodge supersonic characters.
All Might (and consequently Nomu and All For One) being High Hypersonic is a huge leap up from their current rating. Basing this all on one calc with almost no supporting evidence is a stretch to me.

And Versus, don't bring other series into this.

> Again, they were surprised because they saw he was about to move. There is aboslutely nothing indicating they were able to preceive him in any way, not even as a blur once All Might started moving.

The fact that they had a reaction panel as he was moving indicates they saw him moving. Stop trying to dismiss this.
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He was jumping into the air, about to move. he was not moving at blitz speeds. For the last time, they were surprised seeing that he was about to move. Stop trying to deny this based on headcanon. I have made this clear so many times, I'm not going to tell you again.

I compared this to other series because you are failing to see that your arguments are..... to be frank... shit.

As long as there aren't contradicting feats (here there are none) it does not matter if the gap is big. Otherwise we should just downgrade a ton of verses based on this.
 
It is very common for writers to underestimate their own characters and not understand just how strong they made them. For example, there's a flash panel that, while stated to be nearly the speed of light, was actually calced at MFTL. There's also Dyspo's lightspeed being considered impressive in DBS, which would make no sense since everyone's been MFTL for a while, and to a pretty high degree. It's more likely that the writers accidentally lowballed their supersonic character, as happens so often.
 
What do you mean about to move? Jumping into the air is movement...

And stop bringing up the word 'headcanon' like it is some mythical argument-winning button. It's seriously annoying and unhelpful to the discussion. Calcs are headcanon because they don't exist in the mind of the author and he's not writing the story in mind for your calcs; calcing a feat is us producing a headcanon for how fast a character must be moving because the story doesn't tell us.

I'm still against the upgrade. You say that I'm resisting change? I say you're just promoting change for the sake of upgrading characters. Your arguments rely on your own headcanon that the villains were completely incapable of percieving All Might when the alternative explanation is just as likely.
 
Damage3245 said:
What do you mean about to move? Jumping into the air is movement...
And stop bringing up the word 'headcanon' like it is some mythical argument-winning button. It's seriously annoying and unhelpful to the discussion. Calcs are headcanon because they don't exist in the mind of the author and he's not writing the story in mind for your calcs; calcing a feat is us producing a headcanon for how fast a character must be moving because the story doesn't tell us.

I'm still against the upgrade. You say that I'm resisting change? I say you're just promoting change for the sake of upgrading characters. Your arguments rely on your own headcanon that the villains were completely incapable of percieving All Might when the alternative explanation is just as likely.
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I meant that he was not yet moving so fast the villans could not see him. Why is this so hard for you to just understand?

Your constant denial and downplay is what is unhelpful to the discussion.

Yes you are resisting the change, based on falty arguments that I have debunked repeatedly. YOUR arguments rely on YOUR headcanon that the villans could see All Might when he was moving. When there is NO compelling evidence that they could see him moving towards them.

Stop being difficult just take the L and move on.
 
I think Versus is being a jerk right now, but I agree with him. All Might was getting ready to move when he jumped. They noticed him before he dashed down and beat them up.
 
Keeweed said:
I think Versus is being a jerk right now, but I agree with him. All Might was getting ready to move when he jumped. They noticed him before he dashed down and beat them up.
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Forgive me if I get frustrated when I have to repeat myself several times to get a simple point across.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
I meant that he was not yet moving so fast the villans could not see him. Why is this so hard for you to just understand?

Your constant denial and downplay is what is unhelpful to the discussion.

Yes you are resisting the change, based on falty arguments that I have debunked repeatedly. YOUR arguments rely on YOUR headcanon that the villans could see All Might when he was moving.

Stop being difficult just take the L and move on.
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Because there is no reason to assume he leaped into the air then suddenly accelerated beyond their perception speed as opposed to the equally likely answer that he leaped into the air, blitzed them faster than they could fight back and reached Aizawa.

I'm "downplaying" because the upgrade is unwarranted. All Might's later feat of travelling 5 kilometers in less than 30 seconds also matches with Therefir's calc. If All Might was moving at around twice the speed of sound, then it would only take him a few seconds to reach the warehouse which lines up with what All Might was doing during that 30 second time frame.

Can you make a single post without mentioning the word 'headcanon'? Get over yourself.
 
Damage3245 said:
VersusJunkie54 said:
I meant that he was not yet moving so fast the villans could not see him. Why is this so hard for you to just understand?

Your constant denial and downplay is what is unhelpful to the discussion.

Yes you are resisting the change, based on falty arguments that I have debunked repeatedly. YOUR arguments rely on YOUR headcanon that the villans could see All Might when he was moving.

Stop being difficult just take the L and move on.
Click to expand...
Because there is no reason to assume he leaped into the air then suddenly accelerated beyond their perception speed as opposed to the equally likely answer that he leaped into the air, blitzed them faster than they could fight back and reached Aizawa.
I'm "downplaying" because the upgrade is unwarranted. All Might's later feat of travelling 5 kilometers in less than 30 seconds also matches with Therefir's calc. If All Might was moving at around twice the speed of sound, then it would only take him a few seconds to reach the warehouse which lines up with what All Might was doing during that 30 second time frame.

Can you make a single post without mentioning the word 'headcanon'? Get over yourself.
Click to expand...
Can you for once stop being so difficult and thick? I have repeated the same arguments to you over and over and over again. And STILL you deny it based on shit that makes no sense.

Key word "Less than" Not "Exactly" Or "More Than" "Less than" So he would easily be moving faster than Supersonic.

There is no reason to assume that the villans were able to preceive All Might when he moved. Why..... is this so difficult to just understand? A complete and total blitz makes a fuckton more sense than a baseless asumption that they were able to somehow see him while he was in motion.

I'm getting to heated here, I need a break from this thread. Therefir, you've got the helm for the time being.
 
BlackeJan said:
Calm down ya guys why don't we just ask knowledge members?
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Sorry, there are a few things that appear to trigger me on this site and seeing someone just dismiss my position as 'headcanon' and telling me to just stop being difficult and give up appears to be some of them.
 
Traveling 5 kilometers in 30 seconds is just subsonic, can we stop using that anti-feat as an argument? All Might was getting weaker and slower since his fight with Nomu.
 
Sorry, there are a few things that appear to trigger me on this site and seeing someone just dismiss my position as 'headcanon' and telling me to just stop being difficult and give up appears to be some of them.

Lol it's ok cause he was like that w/ me too but yeah just ask a knowledgeable member cause it just seems like it's going in circles
 
Therefir said:
Traveling 5 kilometers in 30 seconds is just subsonic, can we stop using that anti-feat as an argument? All Might was getting weaker and slower since his fight with Nomu.
Click to expand...
You seem to be ignoring that I'm not saying he ran there in 30 seconds. He obviously ran there in less than since he had to fight off the Nomu, talk to Endeavor briefly and then start running. Whether he got there in 10 seconds or 5 seconds, it's still something to be taken into account.

Don't dismiss a potentially valid antifeat because it contradicts what you percieve the character to be like.
 
Why not read what I posted above.
 
I don't remember something like that happening, but maybe it can be calced.
 
Wokistan said:
Why not read what I posted above.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I overlooked it. You're right that authors generally aren't great maths; they don't write their stories in mind for us and our calcs. It's possible Horikoshi wanted to imply All Might was supersonic by the way he moved during that feat and it's possible he wanted him to appear to move much faster than that too.

Reading author intent into these things can be difficult, which is why a roughly reasonably statement from a character later in the story can give a clue towards the authors intentions as it it through their characters that they can speak to the audience.
 
People who agree with the upgrade: 5 (Me, Andytrenom, VersusJunkie54, Wokistan?, Keeweed)

People who disagree: 1 (Damage3245)
 
Therefir, do you think that your own calc which puts All Might in this feat at supersonic is not usable?
 
I think my calc is fine, but it hasn't been evaluated yet.
 
I've put the calc into the evaluation request thread so that it can get some attention.
 
Don't we tend to typically low-ball calcs so as to avoid potentially overrating a character? I haven't seen the Hypersonic calc yet so I can't comment on that but I'll take a look for it.
 
its my first thread

Tata took the calc and applied a higher reaction for the fodder villains and thats why we got High hypersonic
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
its my first thread
Tata took the calc and applied a higher reaction for the fodder villains and thats why we got High hypersonic
Click to expand...
I've looked up the Hypersonic calc and that one seems more reasonable than the High Hypersonic one being proposed here. It's as good a compromise between the low-ball and high-ball calcs as we can get.

I disagree that we have to treat random villains like they have peak human perception speed just because they have a Quirk and have a career of being criminals. The Hypersonic outcome is a more reasonable upgrade to me.
 
As everyone already explained, the characters being blitzed would be subsonic+ so it is conservative enough to use peak human FPS.
 
Andytrenom said:
As everyone already explained, the characters being blitzed would be subsonic+ so it is conservative enough to use peak human FPS.
Click to expand...
There is no reason to think of them as such. Aizawa was easily handling them even when fighting several at once. Izuku and the others never fought those particular villains.

There is no reason why we should assume their perception speed would be so high.
 
I'd rather go with the conservative estimate, since these Villains were mostly fodder. It's unreasonable to assume that they have peak level reactions.
 
Reppuzan said:
I'd rather go with the conservative estimate, since these Villains were mostly fodder. It's unreasonable to assume that they have peak level reactions.
Click to expand...
Have you not been paying attention? Fodders have Subsonic reactions. So Peak Human reactions IS the conservative estimate. Even Mineta has Subsonic reactions. It's silly to think fodders like him wouldn't.
 
Damage3245 said:
Shadowbokunohero said:
its my first thread
Tata took the calc and applied a higher reaction for the fodder villains and thats why we got High hypersonic
Click to expand...
I've looked up the Hypersonic calc and that one seems more reasonable than the High Hypersonic one being proposed here. It's as good a compromise between the low-ball and high-ball calcs as we can get.
I disagree that we have to treat random villains like they have peak human perception speed just because they have a Quirk and have a career of being criminals. The Hypersonic outcome is a more reasonable upgrade to me.
Click to expand...
What Hypersonic calc? Aside from High Hypersonic, there's only been Supersonic
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
Have you not been paying attention? Fodders have Subsonic reactions. So Peak Human reactions IS the conservative estimate. Even Mineta has Subsonic reactions. It's silly to think fodders like him wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Fodders have demonstrated no subsonic feats.

Simply asserting that they must have peak human reactions doesn't make it true.

A conservative conclusion is better than overrating a character.
 
Damage3245 said:
VersusJunkie54 said:
Have you not been paying attention? Fodders have Subsonic reactions. So Peak Human reactions IS the conservative estimate. Even Mineta has Subsonic reactions. It's silly to think fodders like him wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Fodders have demonstrated no subsonic feats.
Simply asserting that they must have peak human reactions doesn't make it true.

A conservative conclusion is better than overrating a character.
Click to expand...
They scale to weak subsonic characters like Mineta. I have been over this at the very least 10 times!
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
They scale to weak subsonic characters like Mineta. I have been over this at the very least 10 times!
Click to expand...
What specifically has Mineta done to warrant have subsonic reactions / perception speed aside from being in the same class as some other students?

Why does Mineta having a certain reaction speed mean that these fodder villains that Mineta has never fought or been compared to also have the same reaction speed?
 
Damage3245 said:
VersusJunkie54 said:
They scale to weak subsonic characters like Mineta. I have been over this at the very least 10 times!
Click to expand...
What specifically has Mineta done to warrant have subsonic reactions / perception speed aside from being in the same class as some other students?
Why does Mineta having a certain reaction speed mean that these fodder villains that Mineta has never fought or been compared to also have the same reaction speed?
Click to expand...
From being able to keep up with Quirkless Deku who can evade Todoroki's ice.

Anyways, my point about Skinny All Might casually catching an object moving as fast as a baseball that he had his back turned to still stands. Fodders would absolutely be superior to post OFA All Might.

So this whole debate is pointless. Even lowballing it, Skinny All Might's feat was Peak-Human. If you're going to argue that Skinny All Might, a dying man that has completely lost all his power is superior to fodder villans.... I'm not going to argue with you anymore. At this point your stubbornness has gotten tiresome and I'm not going to put up with it anymore. Far more people are agreeing with my arguments anyway.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
they would scale from shinso anyway
who is basically fodder physically
Click to expand...
Deku didn't use his Quirk to fight Shinso. He is listed as Athletic human in terms of speed without it; so Shinso does not require Subsonic+ reaction speed in order to fight Deku during the tournament.

Therefore Shinso does not have peak human perception speed and you can't scale fodder villains to him to get that either.
 
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