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That doesn't look like space time expansion more like an explosion, so I guess they would treat it 3-A but to me, that would still be low 2-C since that annhisnfhlams created a universe with time in a timeless void.
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Alien x 2-B Upgrade (Yeah Gonna Cry?)
- Thread starter Gohanblanco217
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it does looks like just 3-A, but if the context is about a timeline being created, then Low 2-C
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Well they were gonna create the universe in a timeless void would this change anything or that's still 3-A?
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Link both instances of the Annihilaargh creating a universe so people can compare.
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Well do you think the OG version of Ben where Mr. Smoothy was still intact is a separated timeline?
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Agree with 2B Alien X 
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Nah it’s the same one
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In that case why Mr smoothie art style is still the same?
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I am definitely not reading the entire thread... it's too big with many walls of text.
If you guys want staff to participate and be able to give meaningful input, post a concise summary and keep to to the point.
If you guys want staff to participate and be able to give meaningful input, post a concise summary and keep to to the point.
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Zamasu is the best one to ask for this
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It was supposed to be a 2-B Upgrade thread but then it turned into a 3-A downgrade because apparently Alien x didn't recreates an entire timeline and the Annihilaargh creating the universe is done via an explosion which should be 3-A......
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I just love how it went from 2-B stuff to seriously thinking if it even deserves low 2-C lmao
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2-B
The 2-B side is a more straightforward. Simply make him 2-B because Alien X is stated to have the greatest power in the universe. As well as these two statements not only to support their claim, but keep his 2-B range as well as EE.3-A
These are my factors- The universe exists in the space beyond, showing it doesn’t have its own space and shares a space with other universes. The universe is also shown to be a cluster of galaxies.
- Alien X creates all galaxies and doesn’t change the spatial background.
- Ben admits he was too late to save the universe, while Serena and Bellicus agree it’s too late despite the universe still being in the process of dying. As a bonus when asked if Alien X can stop the destruction Serena and Bellicus don’t answer. So it’s heavily implied that Alien X couldn’t stop it.
- The past Mr. Smoothy was never changed so time was never affected. It’s also the same timeline as shown here, all the markings made by Ben in the past appeared in the future.
- The Chronosapien Time Bomb destroys Ben, with his failsafe having nothing to stop it. The same failsafe that always tires to find a way to save Ben’s life.
- Ben and Rook exit the prime timeline, showing it’s still intact. This shows that the timeline was never created from scratch.
- Here it’s stated that a universe can be with a dimension, further supporting “the space beyond” statement by Professor Paradox.
- Here it’s stated that Maltruant is in a time loop and is still affected by it in the beginning of time. As a side note, it’s called the beginning of time and it’s stated that time “hasn’t started yet”, meaning it exists but hasn’t started moving.
- Here the Big Bang is shown as an explosion, and as stated before, never created an entire timeline, or even created time, but merely started it.
- In context, this statement means universe, as shown here here and here. Servantis himself was worried that he was exaggerating, and that Ben “proving him right” was likely the events of Ben remaking the universe.
- This also isn’t the first time “everything” was used to describe the universe.
- Alien X being unable to survive timeline destruction is supported by WoG.
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Ask Alien X.
Also most of the 3-A stuff is irrelevant and can be/has been countered.
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The 3-A stuff wasn't countered. In fact, quite the opposite. All of those factors are pretty damning against tier 2 being a thing.
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Fine I’ll debunk’em real quick then.
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- #177
I'm counting on you dude don't disappoint me
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Eh what? Everything that isn’t outside of alle extensions of the concepts of space and time exists within a space. Like this is just how multiverses are portrayed.
Ok, we also see a reality warping wave come from him meaning he did more than just that.
Yeah AX’s time reverse isn’t as good as Clockwork’s who can reverse time on erased stuff.
Ok, so like I said before characters still see the old design in their memories (mostly Rook during the trial thinking about the moment the universe got destroyed), so the exact moment the design changed is unclear. So to use this to say only the “present” got affected isn’t too solid and you could just argue that Alien X inserting himself in the universe at a certain moment is what caused the change in that moment (since he’d be focusing on that moment a bit more or smth).
Alien X can’t survive (or probably not even stop) the EE’ing bomb and Atomic-X got taken out which leads to Alien X not being able to be accessed anymore due to acausality type 2.
Eh, what? They are still in the structure that holds the timestream. The Contumelia are beyond the barrier so this doesn’t change or mean anything.
A dimension is the structure that holds a universe (which is actually a multiverse in this case since it holds the timestream). I also don’t see how this is relevant.
Potent time loop (since Paradox can’t even reach before the beginning of time). Isn’t it only called the beginning of time after the Annihilaargh creates the universe? Rook stating “time hasn’t begun yet” doesn’t mean that time did exist at that point.
Yeah but that’s not the Annihilaargh that actually creates the universe. The actual Big Bang is shown as a space-time expansion. So Feedback should probably be the only one who loses Low 2-C.
Servantis is aware of alternate universes as explicitly stated at the end of the episode. So all of existence would obviously be well all of existence…
He was worried he was exaggerating because Ben wasn’t using any of his good aliens, once he upped his game and uses more hax and heavy hitters like Atomix and Alien X, Servantis confirmed that Ben was indeed the threat he made him out to be (back when he stated that he was a threat to and could erase all of existence).
Supergeniuses tend to get their shit right contrary to people like Ben or Kevin (or Paradox who dumbs his explanations down for the aforementioned 2).
Now may I remind people that it’s stated about 5 different times that “the entire universe and everything in it” was destroyed, so clearly they are differentiating between the matter and the space-time construct itself.
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Imagine using a vague statement and visual feat like this as a proof even though Vilgax confirmed by himself the existence of parallel timelines which debunks this.
In "Universe vs Tennyson" it was literally stated that Ben was gonna get punished for changing the Fabric of Reality itself which includes space-time so he didnt just create galaxies in fact we've seen Celestialsapiens Reality warping affecting entire timelines via RW so saying that Alien x didn't affect space based on vague visual feats alone isn't gonna get you anywhere.
And this matters because of what?
How does not Changing the past Mr smoothie mean anything? It could just be that Ben got all the smoothies art style right except of the Prestent version where he failed to do that heck ben by himself said that he tried to get everything right but he failed , this would actually be a real anti feat only if we see Mr smoothie from the future not being changed since changes in the present would affect the future
Acausality Type 2 my friend Alien x DNA was already fused with Atomic x DNA and they b0th got destroyed.
I think @Rez already countered that stop bringing arguments that were debunked
No you are using 2 different statements and interpret them in a way that fits with your own narrative how does a dimension holding a universe means shit?
There is no such a thing called time existing but it didn't move yet unless it's some kind of time stop, stop taking statements out of Context "Time hasn't started yet" meaning it still didn't exist yet (it wasn't created yet) until the Creation of the universe.
Maltruant time loop starts after paradox disperse his parts which happens after the creation of universe and it's time @Rez already debunked that already stop acting like you didn't see anything
And yet this statement exist ( made by one of Ben creators btw)
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They also said Waybig is only Low 5-B, and Ult waybig is 4-B so take that as you will
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IIRC ultimate Waybig being 4-B was proven to be a fake comment
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Also some WoG’s and certain authors are more valid than others
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Universes exist in voids. It's still shown as nothing but a cluster of galaxies. It's stated that alternate timelines branch off from the prime timeline like a tree, and they're shown to be built like branches when we see the Timestream, which is the multiverse. The universes shown here have nothing branching off of them and are extremely far appart.
Also notice how Paradox separates "universes" and "dimensions" then says there are "many Ben Tennyson's across those dimensions." Those dimensions mean timelines in context because those alternate Bens he's talking about are the ones from the alternate timelines that attacked or defended No Watch Ben. Yet another differentiation of universe and dimension.
Another thing. When Kevin asked "where are we?" Paradox, without hesitation, explained they were in the Space Beyond, but here, when him and NW Ben are outside of time and space, Paradox says he can't answer where they are because it's not a place.
Yes, we usually see that white glow when Alien X uses his abilities, I don’t see how that changes my point at all when the fact still remains; the spatial background remained the same.
Time wasn’t destroyed. Even then, that's just one ability. Alien X couldn’t do anything to stop it.
That was a reused clip of course it's gonna have the same logo. Saying "we don’t know when it was changed" when we were shownright in front of our face is straight up denial. It also wouldn’t make sense for Rook to remember the old Mr. Smoothy logo since he knows what the new one looks like the Rook that we were actually introduced to is dead. This current Rook is a mere copy.
Atomic X doesn’t have acausality and he's not Alien X. Why would erasing an entirely different being who happens to have Alien X's DNA affect the real Alien X?
It means the annihilargh didn’t create the timeline. Explain how you create a timeline that already exists.
The timestream isn’t within a dimension. As stated above Paradox considers outside the timestream as not a place.
So you admit time exists to some extent then.
Paradox says Maltruant would travel do the beginning of time, he's talking about pre big bang.
That doesn’t matter because it was going to create a universe anyway. This is the big bang that created the universe yes, but it's still an explosion. Tell me, where do you see the timestream expanding? All I see are a bunch of gas clouds and galaxies; it's a literal expansion of matter.
So is Ben, and yet he still made the statement. "Existence" is also context dependent that require more proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
And what do you know, the multiverse was never touched.
Like I said, statements like that are context dependent and require more evidence.
Yeah, the same universe that's 3-A.
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Also, I agree with Alien X 3-A.
My_area
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Oh my god..another example of upgrade thread turning into downgrade thread, before I even lay out anything the 3-A downgrade stuff should be discussed in a different seperate thread, its completely derailed from 2-B upgrade at this point now with a discussion of 3-A instead which leads to arguments for/against completely different view point.
I suggest that either 2-B is talked about here or this thread can just close and the 3-A downgrade can be made into separate thread by Zamasu Chan
I suggest that either 2-B is talked about here or this thread can just close and the 3-A downgrade can be made into separate thread by Zamasu Chan
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I don't know if it's correct, but I made a separate CRT for a better discussion.
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Agreed, this thread should be closed as 2B Alien X was clearly rejected. A 3A downgrade thread should be completely separate
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Given the agree/disagree ratio on 3-A Alien X, I think we can safely agree that 2-B is not happening anymore at all.
So yeah, we should close this and discuss 3-A in another thread.
My_area
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I suppose that does make sense.
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Wait is that an actual thing? I didn’t follow the universe thread that closely but can the universes themselves now be 3-A? (As in there are no low 2-C constructs within Ben 10?)
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