Alien x 2-B Upgrade (Yeah Gonna Cry?)

[Rez]

You haven't answered this...

I am talking about range here

 

[Sus]

the past and other dimensions got effected too
how is this not 2B range?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

No you will need to prove the artstyle change was caused by multiple celestial sapiens instead of a singular random celestial sapien

“Celestialsapiens change the universe all the time.” That’s Celestialsapiens with an “S” so it’s plural. He also says universe not multiverse.
Man of action also says CPs (Celestialsapiens) with an “S”, which is still plural. They also say they’ve changed 1 dimension.

So that’s double the proof you need against my claim, when both the show and WoG say multiple Celestialsapiens are responsible for changing 1 universe.

 

[Rez]

“Celestialsapiens change the universe all the time.” That’s Celestialsapiens with an “S” so it’s plural. He also says universe not multiverse.
Man of action also says CPs (Celestialsapiens) with an “S”, which is still plural. They also say they’ve changed 1 dimension.

So that’s double the proof you need against my claim, when both the show and WoG say multiple Celestialsapiens are responsible for changing 1 universe.

It's written
even the Celestialsapien making the adjustment – would remember the reboot – all beings are inside of the experience not outside of it

And it affected more than 1 universe as evident by the fact that Ben 10,000 and eon's designs changed also celestial sapiens had their designs changed too

 

[Shadyboi0]

They also say they’ve changed 1 dimension.

11-B AX

 

[Rez]

11-B AX

The dimensions from Ben 10 are not considered to be viable here or else Alien x will be low 1-C

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The dimensions from Ben 10 are not considered to be viable here or else Alien x will be low 1-C

It's very obviously a joke bruh. And I highly doubt Low 1-C Alien X even if dimension in ben 10 are legit but that's irrelevant to the main topic

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Saying "I'm not going to address this" is a surefire way to lose an argument.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Saying "I'm not going to address this" is a surefire way to lose an argument.

?

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree with the upgrade, it's pretty straight forward tbh.

 

[Shadyboi0]

low 1-C

fodder ass low 1-C

 

[DarlingAurora]

I disagree via Zamasu-Chan reasons, sowwy guys but the arguments of this thread don't convince me..

 

[Sir_Ovens]

?

Was in reference to Gohanblanco's response to Zamasu.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ah ok. Sorry

 

[Rez]

Also aniilargh literally created the universe and it's time so if Alien x becomes 3-A his dura and range will still be the same

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

his dura

I doubt Alien X is a stonewall. Considering he's fought Galactic Gladiator, he's shown he can harm those who can harm him.

 

[Rez]

I doubt Alien X is a stonewall. Considering he's fought Galactic Gladiator, he's shown he can harm those who can harm him.

So Alien x has low 2-C dura and galactic gladiator can harm him good more proof for low 2-C celestial sapiens

 

[Andytrenom]

Disagree with 3-A Alien X. The realm Ben met the Contemelia in before the anhilarg created a universe was explicitly stated to lack time, meaning the universe created by anhilarg contains times.


The effects of Anhilarg is thus low 2-C so it follows that when detonated inside a universe it would destroy time as well. And Alien X recreated all this

Low 2-C Alien X is fine

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I agree with Andy.

 

[Greenshifter]

Agree with Andy. I probably have different arguments for why Alien X should scale to the cosmology, but feel hesitant to bring them up in a thread that devolved into chaos already. Next thread should preferably be staff only.

 

[Arceus0x]

Agree with Andy. I probably have different arguments for why Alien X should scale to the cosmology, but feel hesitant to bring them up in a thread that devolved into chaos already. Next thread should preferably be staff only.

Or one that doesn't say "gonna cry?" in the title

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I also disagree with OP for zamasu's and disagree with zamasu for the reasons that the annilaghtiwbwhfiosb is actually a confirmed timeline buster, so it's effects are in fact low 2-C and X tanked straight up and his fight with the galactic gladiator proves him scaling to his own AP as well.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Saying "I'm not going to address this" is a surefire way to lose an argument.

You mean an argument that was braught up in multiple times in multiple threads and was rejected and you want for me to adresse it again? No thanks

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Entire universes can be 3-A tho? There's no mention of space time

Entire Universe means space-time contenum by default since that's the definition of what a universe is especially when the Universal CRT was accepted which is something that people seems to forget about it

 

[Ningenron]

Lmao

 

[Gohanblanco217]

What feat do they have that gives them 2-B RW

Changing the Art style

I don’t think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying his RW is 2-B via scaling, I'm saying that having RW is just better that arbitrary AP.
When "making idea's real" is what's considered the greatest power, then clearly the context of said statements point to having RW being a better ability.

I do understand and that's a pure speculation and headcanon there is no real evidence saying that Celestialsapiens RW doesn't scale to their AP.

Where are the feats? I

It's not via feats it's simply via scaling

. Despite having the failsafe, the same thing that wouldn't let him die and give him the right alien, he still gets erased. Interesting how there's no alien in the Omnitrix the failsafe can use to stop the Chronosapien Time Bomb. It's almost as if he's fodder to it.

There is only a single version of Alien x that exists and that Alien x got erased by the CTB due to him being fused with Atomic x meaning that Ben didn't have Alien x anymore that's why the Faile safe didn't activate since Alien x already got killed way before that.

Ben, Gwen, and Kevin know of celestialsapiens, doesn’t mean they studied them. Even then, how would Servantis go to the Forge of Creation to nab a celestialsapien to study? Give me concrete proof of him actually studying one and I'll probably concede. Calling them omnipotent is not evidence either, especially when Servantis himself thought he was exaggerating.

My point is that Servantis who not only knows about the Celestialsapiens but he also refers to Alien x being an Omnipotent alien who can wipe everything out of existence if he wanted to proving that he is clearly knowledgeable about Celestialsapiens and what they are capable of doing.

Calling them omnipotent is not evidence either, especially when Servantis himself thought he was exaggerating.

It is an evidence as it clearly proves that Servantis knows about Celestialsapiens Status and what they are capable of doing and Servantis never thought that he was exaggerating he was simply trying to piss Ben off.

Servantis statement is also something that is supported by many other statements in the show anyway so it's not really an exaggeration especially when there is no real evidence for that except of a single statement that be can interpreted as just Servantis trying to piss ben off (or making fun of him) which is not an enough evidence anyway.

I don’t see how this makes it any less wrong. "Wish away" can mean so many things, such as BFR or simple destruction. Yet we go with the idea that Alien X can erase the very souls of anyone because he "wished them away".

Wishing someone out of existence is something that refers to EE unless shown otherwise this is an argument that was rejected multiple times and even my some stuff members

"People were standing still" bruh what kind of evidence is that?

Living beings weren't moving during the Creation of the universe they only started moving when the Universe was fully created with it's time implying that time itself was gone anyway I think Andy already adressed the low 2-C stuff so there isn't much to say here all of your evidence are based on vague visual feats and statements and you interpret them in a way that fits your own narrative that's all I'm seeing

 

[TokiNoOuja]

i agree with 2B Alien X also didnt paradox say "The Greatest Power"? Basicly Ability is not just a power but your physical strength is also part of power so basicly Power not just refers to an single Ability but it refers to all of you

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Basicly i agree with 2B Alien X also basicly didnt paradox say "The Greatest Power"? Basicly Ability is not just a power but your physical strength is also part of power so basicly Power not just refers to an single Ability but it refers to all of you

Yeah something like that well the point is most of the characters Reality warping scales to their AP in this wiki and the evidence about Alien x reality warping not scaling to his AP is based on pure speculation and headcanon/assumptions with no real evidence.

 

[Orioreeem]

Agree with 2-B Alien X

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

It's written
even the Celestialsapien making the adjustment – would remember the reboot – all beings are inside of the experience not outside of it

And it affected more than 1 universe as evident by the fact that Ben 10,000 and eon's designs changed also celestial sapiens had their designs changed too

Affecting the prime timeline can affect other realities. As shown in the episode "And then there was Ben" the prime timeline is what’s responsible for the changes in time, such as branching.

Disagree with 3-A Alien X. The realm Ben met the Contemelia in before the anhilarg created a universe was explicitly stated to lack time, meaning the universe created by anhilarg contains times.


The effects of Anhilarg is thus low 2-C so it follows that when detonated inside a universe it would destroy time as well. And Alien X recreated all this

Low 2-C Alien X is fine

I'm gonna assume you skimmed through what I wrote because I already went over this. I will quote the Big Bang page again: Creating a supposed Big Bang that would create all the space of a universe or its space and time through a physical explosion is a 3-A feat, and grants Explosion Manipulation, limited Spatial Manipulation and limited Time Manipulation. It's obviously shown to be an explosion.
The page also says: If it has generated a space-time expansion that creates an entire universal spacetime continuum from scratch, it is treated as Low 2-C. The big bang never created an entire timeline from scratch because the timeline is still there. As I explained above, simple movement from matter can create its own time. Time clearly exists there if Ben and the others can move, and Maltruant is still affected by the time loop. It just hasn’t started yet. It didn’t create space either because as stated by rook, they’re inside a dimension.
So unless you can prove it created all of the past present and future instead of simply starting time in the universe, it's 3-A.

Changing the Art style

As explained above that's not enough proof. If changing the art style was that impressive then all Celestialsapiens would be held accountable for unauthorized reality warping. Merely changing an aspect of the universe with no further context

I do understand and that's a pure speculation and headcanon there is no real evidence saying that Celestialsapiens RW doesn't scale to their AP.

Again you straw-man me after I just said his reality warping scaling to AP is no issue. Calling my arguments headcanon or speculation is either you being denial, or not knowing how context clues work. It's clearly stated verbatim that the universe's greatest power is where ideas become real. Paradox is saying the best ability ever is reality warping.

It's not via feats it's simply via scaling

There is only a single version of Alien x that exists and that Alien x got erased by the CTB due to him being fused with Atomic x meaning that Ben didn't have Alien x anymore that's why the Faile safe didn't activate since Alien x already got killed way before that.

I'm not talking about Atomic X or any other Bens. I'm talking about Ben prime. The failsafe never activated so that means no alien in the omnitrix can handle the power of the CTB.

My point is that Servantis who not only knows about the Celestialsapiens but he also refers to Alien x being an Omnipotent alien who can wipe everything out of existence if he wanted to proving that he is clearly knowledgeable about Celestialsapiens and what they are capable of doing.

If he was starting to think he was wrong, then clearly he was exaggerating in some way. Also notice how every time he speaks of Ben he only refers to him as a threat to the universe. That goes for everything else in that matter. It's always "universe" this or "universe" that for Alien X statements, nothing higher. So in context "all of existence" being the universe makes sense.

It is an evidence as it clearly proves that Servantis knows about Celestialsapiens Status and what they are capable of doing and Servantis never thought that he was exaggerating he was simply trying to piss Ben off.

Servantis statement is also something that is supported by many other statements in the show anyway so it's not really an exaggeration especially when there is no real evidence for that except of a single statement that be can interpreted as just Servantis trying to piss ben off (or making fun of him) which is not an enough evidence anyway.

"Omg bruh he's omnipotent!" Anyone can call him omnipotent, that’s not evidence of studying them.

Wishing someone out of existence is something that refers to EE unless shown otherwise this is an argument that was rejected multiple times and even my some stuff members

Wishing out of existence is vague. A character can wish for the extinction of the human race by killing every human ever, and with all humans dead, they won’t exist. The dinosaurs don’t exist anymore, does that mean a meteor can destroy souls?

Living beings weren't moving during the Creation of the universe they only started moving when the Universe was fully created with it's time implying that time itself was gone anyway I think Andy took care of that so there isn't much to say here all of your evidence are based on vague visual feats and statements and you interpret them in a way that fits your own narrative

That literally doesn’t mean anything at all and I'm not going to waste time arguing about semantics that don’t matter.

 

[Greenshifter]

The big bang never created an entire timeline from scratch because the timeline is still there.

Minor nitpick. You see Ben and Rook leave the timeline before they enter the void before the beginning of time.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Minor nitpick. You see Ben and Rook leave the timeline before they enter the void before the beginning of time.

Doesn’t mean it created the entire timeline from scratch if that event is still responsible for existence of the timeline timeline they just traveled through.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

One thing I forgot to touch upon, outside of the universe is called the "space beyond" which basically confirms that the universe doesn’t have it's own space.

 

[Rez]

Eon isn't a part of prime timeline and celestial sapiens literally are in a different universe outside of space and time of changing their artstyle is still 2-B range not to mention their were multiple ben Tennysons from different timelines in that Eon episode in ua

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Eon isn't a part of prime timeline and celestial sapiens literally are in a different universe outside of space and time of changing their artstyle is still 2-B range not to mention their were multiple ben Tennysons from different timelines in that Eon episode in ua

I just told you that affecting the prime universe can effect other universes. Both the show and WoG say they only change the universe, so you need to prove they affected multiple universes at the same time.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

As explained above that's not enough proof. If changing the art style was that impressive then all Celestialsapiens would be held accountable for unauthorized reality warping. Merely changing an aspect of the universe with no further context

I don't care if it isn't impressive that's still 2-B RW no matter how you look at it it could just be that some Celestialsapiens gived them the authorization to do that

Again you straw-man me after I just said his reality warping scaling to AP is no issue. Calling my arguments headcanon or speculation is either you being denial, or not knowing how context clues work. It's clearly stated verbatim that the universe's greatest power is where ideas become real. Paradox is saying the best ability ever is reality warping.

So it doesn't change anything I said then

I'm not talking about Atomic X or any other Bens. I'm talking about Ben prime. The failsafe never activated so that means no alien in the omnitrix can handle the power of the CTB.

Can you pls just read what I'm saying? The Faile safe didn't activate because Alien x was already DEAD

If he was starting to think he was wrong, then clearly he was exaggerating in some way

Not enough evidence especially when it's backed up by multiple other statements

Also notice how every time he speaks of Ben he only refers to him as a threat to the universe. That goes for everything else in that matter. It's always "universe" this or "universe" that for Alien X statements, nothing higher. So in context "all of existence" being the universe makes sense.

The Universe doesn't just necessarily refers to a single universe

Wishing out of existence is vague. A character can wish for the extinction of the human race by killing every human ever, and with all humans dead, they won’t exist. The dinosaurs don’t exist anymore, does that mean a meteor can destroy souls?

Can you pls just stop with this shity examples statement like "wiping something out of existence" is something that refers to EE most of the time in fiction unless shown otherwise

"Omg bruh he's omnipotent!" Anyone can call him omnipotent, that’s not evidence of studying them.

No but that's an evidence that he know about their abilities

That literally doesn’t mean anything at all and I'm not going to waste time arguing about semantics that don’t matter.

"it doesn't mean anything because I have no counter arguments"

Stings doesn't it? Your Concession has been accepted.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I just told you that affecting the prime universe can effect other universes. Both the show and WoG say they only change the universe, so you need to prove they affected multiple universes at the same time.

The WoG said that they changed at least one dimension (one of those 26 dimensions) which contains the Ben 10 Multiverse and the statement about them changing the universe was referring to the entire Ben 10 verse (multiverse) in context because other realities were being affected which also support the WoG statement yet an other example of you using assumptions and taking everything out of context as always

 

[Rez]

I just told you that affecting the prime universe can effect other universes. Both the show and WoG say they only change the universe, so you need to prove they affected multiple universes at the same time.

Ah yes celestial sapiens are literally from an entirely different universe outside of space and time and no changes in prime timeline won't affect eon because the events of his timeline has already happened and are completely unrelated to prime timeline race against time is an entirely different timeline with no connection to prime timeline

 

[Rez]

Eon wasn't a thing in prime timeline he came from the race against time timeline and celestial sapien's universe is also a completely different thing from prime timeline

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I don't care if it isn't impressive that's still 2-B RW no matter how you look at it it could just be that some Celestialsapiens gived them the authorization to do that

How is "change the universe" 2-B reality warping? Explain.

So it doesn't change anything I said then

Yes it does. You’re just ignoring context.

Can you pls just read what I'm saying? The Faile safe didn't activate because Alien x was already DEAD

Atomic X is only part of Alien X's DNA without the personalites of Serena and Bellicus. Ben has access to the DNA and personalities so my point still stands.

Not enough evidence especially when it's backed up by multiple other statements

Servantis made the statement himself lmfao. Are his own statements not viable anymore? PFFFFFT, I guess that means none of his statements that support your claims are viable anymore.

The Universe doesn't just necessarily refers to a single universe

Prove it.

Can you pls just stop with this shity examples statement like "wiping something out of existence" is something that refers to EE most of the time in fiction unless shown otherwise

Telling me to stop arguing huh? Looks like you can’t refute it.

No but that's an evidence that he know about their abilities

Prove he knows the very depths of a celestialsapien's abilities.

"it doesn't mean anything because I have no counter arguments"

You have to prove why the characters standing still mean anything. Everyone manage to run away while the universe was bieng destroyed. The Blackness of space wasn’t even changed and all Alien X did was spawn galaxies in space. If the galaxies can exist no problem in that "void" then clearly time wasn't touched.

To add to this, in the episode "Ben again", which happens after Alien X recreates the universe, the Mr. Smoothy logo was never changed in the past, further proving that time wasn’t affected at all.

The WoG said that they changed at least one dimension (one of those 26 dimensions) which contains the Ben 10 Multiverse and the statement about them changing the universe was referring to the entire Ben 10 verse (multiverse) in context because other realities were being affected which also support the WoG statement yet an other example of you using assumptions and taking everything out of context as always

You do realize interpreting it that way is can be as low as tier 11 right? **** it, I guess changing the art style is 1D. Regardless the show (you know the main source) says the universe. So interpreting it the way I did is probably the best way to go.

Ah yes celestial sapiens are literally from an entirely different universe outside of space and time and no changes in prime timeline won't affect eon because the events of his timeline has already happened and are completely unrelated to prime timeline race against time is an entirely different timeline with no connection to prime timeline

Eon wasn't a thing in prime timeline he came from the race against time timeline and celestial sapien's universe is also a completely different thing from prime timeline

So? You don’t have to interpret it that way.

What's up with people assumung "changing the universe" = one celestialsapien warping the entire multiverse? The entire race is responsible for the changes and is described as changing the universe! You need to prove it's all of the multiverse being affected at the same time, and why it scales to a singular celestialsapien.