Aleph cardinals

[Yusuf21259]

Hello, I want to give a simple explanation, I want to give an example because many people still question and misunderstand aleph cardinas 1-a - h1a. Thank you very much for your corrections now if there is a wrong line.
I use any aleph instance aleph3 [ 1,2,3,4...]
and aleph 4 [ aleph 3 + (1,2,3,4... )]
and from this aleph to infinity = omega but this is not the end of the layer because for omega another infinite cardinal
In ar A.omega 1 (1,2,3,4...) and aleph omega 2, a continuum just like this one crosses the previous aleph base layers with its own upper infinite set, which, like the primary alephs at the beginning, passes like infinity sets that transcend each other. Infinite omega in conclusion
It forms an infinite set system with a term like set, and the part it finally reaches is the highest point of 1-a. If you point out something is missing or wrong here, I will help forum visitors in my own circle

 

[Gasper]

Alephs don't "transend" each other but just have bigger cardinality than the lower one.
If you have aleph-omega amount of universes that's only 2-A without further context.

 

[Yusuf21259]

Alephs don't "transend" each other but just have bigger cardinality than the lower one.
If you have aleph-omega amount of universes that's only 2-A without further context.

I qualified this concept as a reference to a greater infinity, if not exceed, and I hypothesized it as the baselines of 1-a.

 

[Fixxed]

Alephs don't "transend" each other but just have bigger cardinality than the lower one.
If you have aleph-omega amount of universes that's only 2-A without further context.

Aleph is "transcend" each other. Each aleph will make previous aleph a infinitesimall portion of it self, that mean qualitative superiority

Aleph omega will make you have 1A+, even if it a amount or size of 1D 2D 4D 5D 10D....

 

[Lewis]

ZFC is not implemented in the way you describe. I think you described axiom the worst.

 

[Gasper]

Aleph is "transcend" each other. Each aleph will make previous aleph a infinitesimall portion of it self, that mean qualitative superiority

Aleph omega will make you have 1A+, even if it a amount or size of 1D 2D 4D 5D 10D....

No lol
Alephs are used to scale how much things there are. Only if alephs are stated in the specific verse to be superior to each other makes them 1-A+.

 

[Fixxed]

No lol
Alephs are used to scale how much things there are. Only if alephs are stated in the specific verse to be superior to each other makes them 1-A+.

No
Each aleph are higher infinity than the previous, it already show the superiority

 

[Gasper]

No
Each aleph are higher infinity than the previous, it already show the superiority

That's because each aleph can contain just infinitely more things.

 

[Yusuf21259]

So, what is our conclusion part, and it is appropriate to express the basic infinite aleph sets =omega and infinite omega alephs as the highest point among the cluster 1a when we use it for the 1-a hierarchy in context.

 

[Fixxed]

That's because each aleph can contain just infinitely more things.

Yeah and that make aleph is superior each other, aleph 2 is more and more bigger than 1 so does 3 to 2, 4 to 3....

 

[Arceus0x]

That's because each aleph can contain just infinitely more things.

In this wiki if you have a multiverse composed of uncountably infinite universes it becomes then it's Low 1-C.

 

[Gasper]

In this wiki if you have a multiverse composed of uncountably infinite universes it becomes then it's Low 1-C.

No it dosen't.
Only if those universes are stated to have R>F difference.

 

[Arceus0x]

No it dosen't.
Only if those universes are stated to have R>F difference.

I am saying that this is what is accepted on the wiki as i have heard that from the words of Ultima (the guy the wiki trusts the most with this stuff). If you have an issue with it then go revise it cause saying "nu-uh" isn't gonna cut it.

 

[Yusuf21259]

I am saying that this is what is accepted on the wiki as i have heard that from the words of Ultima (the guy the wiki trusts the most with this stuff). If you have an issue with it then go revise it cause saying "nu-uh" isn't gonna cut it.

ben 10 cosmology this topic has led to a discussion about l1c, because it has been argued that a magnitude greater than infinite spacetime for l1c is suitable for layer transition, I saw reiner say that the right of passage of something significantly larger than infinite supports it on the wiki, but I'm not sure

 

[Gasper]

I am saying that this is what is accepted on the wiki as i have heard that from the words of Ultima (the guy the wiki trusts the most with this stuff). If you have an issue with it then go revise it cause saying "nu-uh" isn't gonna cut it.

No that's absolutely not how the wiki treats alephs.

 

[Deagonx]

Aleph is "transcend" each other. Each aleph will make previous aleph a infinitesimall portion of it self, that mean qualitative superiority

That's not true, no. You're making an assumption that there is a well-defined -- and moreover useful -- notion of "difference" between cardinalities.

 

[Arceus0x]

No that's absolutely not how the wiki treats alephs.

k show me where it says that it doesn't operate like that

 

[Gasper]

k show me where it says that it doesn't operate like that

Ask any staff

 

[Deagonx]

k show me where it says that it doesn't operate like that

Tiering System

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system which this wiki utilizes in order to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats, and the varying scopes which they can affect or create/destroy. However, it...

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2-A: Multiverse level+​

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting[2], creating and/or destroying a countably infinite number of separate space-time continuums.

Tier 1: Extradimensional​

Characters or objects that can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal.

 

[Arceus0x]

Ask any staff

so no proof, ok

Tiering System

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system which this wiki utilizes in order to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats, and the varying scopes which they can affect or create/destroy. However, it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

2-A: Multiverse level+​

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting[2], creating and/or destroying a countably infinite number of separate space-time continuums.

Tier 1: Extradimensional​

Characters or objects that can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal.

never says aleph levels of universes isn't tier 1


Y'all all i want is evidence for what you are claiming with such intensity. I am not a math guy and frankly i don't care about tier 1. All I am saying is, last time i heard anything about this, alephs of universes could get into tier 1. What I want you to provide is evidence that the wiki accepts it as you claim it does.

 

[Deagonx]

Okay, and I just provided it. Tier 1 can only be reached from 2-A with qualitative superiority. Adding more universes doesn't get you there.

 

[Arceus0x]

Okay, and I just provided it. Tier 1 can only be reached from 2-A with qualitative superiority. Adding more universes doesn't get you there.

uncountable infinity is qualitively superior to infinity thus a 2-A structure or even an above baseline 2-A structure would still be qualitively inferior to a structure with uncountably infinite universes.

 

[Deagonx]

uncountable infinity is qualitively superior to infinity

No, it isn't, the same way infinite universes isn't "qualitatively superior" to finite universes. It's just more universes. Adding more universes doesn't bridge the gap between Tier 2 and Tier 1.

 

[Gasper]

so no proof, ok


never says aleph levels of universes isn't tier 1


Y'all all i want is evidence for what you are claiming with such intensity. I am not a math guy and frankly i don't care about tier 1. All I am saying is, last time i heard anything about this, alephs of universes could get into tier 1. What I want you to provide is evidence that the wiki accepts it as you claim it does.

Read the tiering system. Alephs also don't work as automatically infinitely transending infinites by themselves. Alephs are math not philosophy or mythology.

 

[Arceus0x]

No, it isn't, the same way infinite universes isn't "qualitatively superior" to finite universes. It's just more universes. Adding more universes doesn't bridge the gap between Tier 2 and Tier 1.

a qualitive superiority is the difference between countable and uncountable infinity in this wiki.
To hold infinite 2-A universes you need an infinite 4D space. Thus to hold uncountably infinite universes you'd need a space that is qualitively superior to 4D space, thus making Low 1-C.

 

[Deagonx]

a qualitive superiority is the difference between countable and uncountable infinity in this wiki.

If we're referring to dimensions, yes, but not amounts of universes.

To hold infinite 2-A universes you need an infinite 4D space. Thus to hold uncountably infinite universes you'd need a space that is qualitively superior to 4D space, thus making Low 1-C.

That's a fascinating theory, but as it stands, there is no such standard on the wiki that claims this.

 

[Gasper]

a qualitive superiority is the difference between countable and uncountable infinity in this wiki.
To hold infinite 2-A universes you need an infinite 4D space. Thus to hold uncountably infinite universes you'd need a space that is qualitively superior to 4D space, thus making Low 1-C.

You do realize that alephs have nothing to do with 4D, 5D etc bullshit, right?

 

[Arceus0x]

If we're referring to dimensions, yes, but not amounts of universes.

i am not talking about infinite mathematical dimensions. I am talking about universes or rather timelines that are 4D. As it stands in the wiki, destroying 2-A isn't just destroying the infinite timelines it is also destroying the space between them or rather the space that contains them all. Due to that a space would need to be infinitely bigger to contain uncountably infinite timelines.

You do realize that alephs have nothing to do with 4D, 5D etc bullshit, right?

we're talking about higher and higher infinities

That's a fascinating theory, but as it stands, there is no such standard on the wiki that claims this.

I am just gonna go and ask mods at this point

 

[Deagonx]

I am just gonna go and ask mods at this point

Okie dokie.

 

[Gasper]

i am not talking about infinite mathematical dimensions. I am talking about universes or rather timelines that are 4D. As it stands in the wiki, destroying 2-A isn't just destroying the infinite timelines it is also destroying the space between them or rather the space that contains them all. Due to that a space would need to be infinitely bigger to contain uncountably infinite timelines.

we're talking about higher and higher infinities

I am just gonna go and ask mods at this point

And higher infinites AKA alephs are not some "transidental" shit but just how many things in this case, how many universes there are.

 

[Arceus0x]

And higher infinites AKA alephs are not some "transidental" shit but just how many things in this case, how many universes there are.

and i am saying that while the universes themselves don't matter, what matters is the space that contains them that would have to be infinitely bigger (and thus qualitively superior) than a 2-A universe, which should by our standards grant it Low 1-C. I am gonna clarify it with some staff cause like i said, i am not a mathematician, i have superficial knowledge and i am trying to understand your viewpoint.

 

[Deagonx]

infinitely bigger (and thus qualitively superior)

See, you already lost the plot here. That's not what qualitative superiority means in this context.

 

[Gasper]

and i am saying that while the universes themselves don't matter, what matters is the space that contains them that would have to be infinitely bigger (and thus qualitively superior) than a 2-A universe, which should by our standards grant it Low 1-C. I am gonna clarify it with some staff cause like i said, i am not a mathematician, i have superficial knowledge and i am trying to understand your viewpoint.

Look, all i am saying is that when you're dealing with aleph numbers is that alephs are measured by their cardinality aka how many things there are. Like for example, how many tables, oranges, numbers, universes or even dimensions there are.
You can have Aleph 1 (aka the smallest uncountable infinity) amount of dimensions but it will still be 2-A because there are just "more" universes. Sure, aleph 1 is bigger infinity than aleph 0 but without further context you can just say that there are uncountably infinite dimensions or universes.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Alephs don't "transend" each other but just have bigger cardinality than the lower one.
If you have aleph-omega amount of universes that's only 2-A without further context.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

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Firstly, it should be highlighted that asking about the tier of a cardinal number is effectively a meaningless question when the quantity which it is denoting is not specified in the question as well, and makes as much sense as asking "What tier is the number 8?"

Let's take the smallest infinite cardinal (aleph-0, or ℵ0, the cardinality of countably infinite sets) as an example in this case: A set comprised of a countably infinite number of 0-dimensional points is itself a 0-dimensional space under the usual notions of dimensionality, being thus still infinitely small. Meanwhile, a countably infinite number of planets is High 3-A, a countably infinite number of universes 2-A, and countably infinite dimensions High 1-B.

We then move on to the power set of ℵ0, P(ℵ0), which is an uncountably infinite quantity and represents the set of all the ways in which you can arrange the elements of a set whose cardinality is the former, and is also equal to the size of the set of all real numbers. In terms of points, one can say that everything from 1-dimensional space to (countably) infinite-dimensional space falls under it, as all of these spaces have the same number of elements (coordinates, in this case), in spite of each being infinitely larger than the preceding one by the intuitive notions of size that we regularly utilize (Area, Volume, etc)

On the other hand, an P(ℵ0) number of universes is Low 1-C, and a similar number of spatial dimensions/layers of reality is Low 1-A

However, the same does not necessarily apply when approaching sets of higher cardinalities than this (Such as P(P(ℵ0)), the power set of the power set of aleph-0), as they would be strictly bigger than all of the spaces mentioned above, by all rigorous notions of size, regardless of what their elements are. From this point and onwards, all such sets are Low 1-A at minimum.

 

[Lewis]

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shreeehh

 

[Sisyphusx]

to hold uncountably infinite universes you'd need a space that is qualitively superior to 4D space, thus making Low 1-C.

Isn't uncountable infinite universes just a higher degree of 2A above the baseline of infinite universes?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

People are forgetting about the FAQ rip

On the other hand, an P(ℵ0) number of universes is Low 1-C, and a similar number of spatial dimensions/layers of reality is Low 1-A

Edit: Ultima beat me to it.

 

[Lewis]

Isn't uncountable infinite universes just a higher degree of 2A above the baseline of infinite universes?

I think low1c = aleph1

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

But yeah, basically what Ultima quoted above. I said this is another thread before but even Aleph-2 amount of hamburguers would be 1-A in this fashion.

 

[Sisyphusx]

I think low1c = aleph 1

Yea, mb

"an P(ℵ0) number of universes is Low 1-C"