Akame Ga Kill! Upgrades

[Drellix]

Here it is. The scene she freezes the river.

@KaenDragneel123 Its as Alakabamm said. Her ice can used as both attack and defense so logically she's Small Town durability as well.

 

[Alakabamm]

I mean, it doesn't look like they are crossing the entire river

 

[KamiYasha]

Well. there is the fact of Tatsumi surviving Edeath's Ice Traps and also susanoo (altough he was "revived" by najenda's life force)

 

[Drellix]

I mean, it doesn't look like they are crossing the entire river

But the got to the other side, no? And he said cut across to get to the enemy. I don't see why it wouldn't be the whole river.

 

[Alakabamm]

I don't see why it would be the whole river if there is a path shown only

 

[Drellix]

I don't see why it would be the whole river if there is a path shown only

Doesn't mean the whole river isn't frozen. He says it was frozen. I don't see why it couldn't just be the whole river.

 

[Alakabamm]

Not enough evidence

 

[Drellix]

Stated by Nyau though that the river was frozen. Which would naturally mean it's the whole river.

 

[Alakabamm]

Except we don't see the whole river. I'm done with this. It's repetitive. I disagree.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Here it is. The scene she freezes the river.
@KaenDragneel123 Its as Alakabamm said. Her ice can used as both attack and defense so logically she's Small Town durability as well.

No exactly, Someone can perfeclty destroy the ice wall without being Small Town level

Ice is pretty easy to destroy

So, no reallly solid proof of Small Town level Durability

 

[Lina_Shields]

Here is a better perspective of the river (not a lake apparently) freezing feat. Should we go with what is shown, or should we go with Nyau's statement about the river being frozen?

If the river being frozen was actually stated in the manga page instead of being implied, it should be okay to assume the entire river was actually frozen. So personally, I would go with the entire river being actually frozen for this one unless it was stated otherwise.

@Kaen: The point here is that Tatsumi in Incursio 2nd form matched Esdeath blow for blow. Depending on where Esdeath's AP stands at, Tatsumi matching Esdeath means that he should be equal, or at least be comparable to Esdeath in AP, if not also in durability. If Tatsumi's AP was lower than Esdeath, Tatsumi would have been pushed back by Esdeath's strikes instead of even matching her at all.

Also, your comment about destroying Esdeath's ice wall easily does not fly considering Esdeath's ice was able to take Akame's sword slashes without a scratch. We don't know is Esdeath is able to take her own strikes or not, although, with her ice shields, she probably could.

(a character's durability counts for any barriers/defenses that he/she forms up externally as well)

There is also a feat where Tatsumi takes an attack from Esdeath, and he just shrugs it off, so this is a durability feat for Tatsumi for tanking Esdeath's attacks. http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/Chapter-069?id=268184 (starting at the last 10 pages of chapter)

We also know that Esdeath > Budou in combat skills, as shown in this chapter where Budou gets literally owned by 2nd form Tatsumi. http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/55-Kill-the-Top-Two?id=216211

So, this is an argument for Esdeath > Tatsumi 2nd form > Budou at this point. Will get back to you guys soon.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

And... Proofs of Esdeath Physical Strength = Ice Power?

Budou is only Class GJ

And I already said, Incursio can give power boost, but stills an armor, Tatsumi can have Small Town level Durability and At least City Block AP

 

[Lina_Shields]

Since we are strictly talking about Esdeath's AP at first, we do know that Esdeath is at least Small Town level via river freezing feat (Low 7-C at least). However, Esdeath did this feat rather casually. Now, remember that Esdeath's ice attacks are a form of striking power, seeing as she can inflict physical damage to her surroundings with it. For example, she uses her ice powers as a physical attack shown here:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cs2iTMepOg/Uo_QxY52NPI/AAAAAAAAXP0/RD4MFaGCWm8/s0/032.png

and here.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0NuXP0BKK2M/UADOlBFJE1I/AAAAAAAACLw/U1LyM1e8jBU/s0/025.png

The second point of this comes from Budou's final attack with Mine, where he performs the feat while not being at his full strength. This means that he used a significant amount of his full power on his other attacks before attempting his final attack against Mine, as shown here:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kHGVir6YVLQ/VMi-eZiG6AI/AAAAAAACEmo/rev2B7hFEDw/s0/042.png

Considering that Budo's final attack (strongest attack) resulted in City level AP via calc, this likely means that Budo's AP should sit at City level AP. Just a reminder than Tatsumi and Leone took a direct attack from Budou's lightning bolts, with Tatsumi getting up immediately after. This speaks volumes of Tatsumi's durability.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mlRHUq37lGU/VJbRT9_sb6I/AAAAAAACA8Y/lIqXddiDXq8/s0/020.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IB8D9De9pk8/VJbRU4yLfqI/AAAAAAACA8g/W4ISufiYPYA/s0/021.png

With regards to Tatsumi's City Block AP, I disagree with this point due to the fact that Esdeath's AP likely sits around at City level (Small Town level at minimum) via scaling from Budou. Considering that Tatsumi's primary mode of attacking is via physical strikes, this means that if Tatsumi doesn't have enough AP to match Esdeath's AP, Tatsumi would be pushed back instead of even matching her at all.

So yea, Esdeath, Tatsumi, and Budou's AP should be changed to Class TJ, with Leone only being able to tank Budou's attacks due to her ungodly Regenerationn abilities.

 

[Alakabamm]

1. Since we are strictly talking about Esdeath's AP at first, we do know that Esdeath is at least Small Town level via river freezing feat (Low 7-C at least). However, Esdeath did this feat rather casually.

2. Considering that Budo's final attack (strongest attack) resulted in City level AP via calc, this likely means that Budo's AP should sit at City level AP.

3. With regards to Tatsumi's City Block AP, I disagree with this point due to the fact that Esdeath's AP likely sits around at City level (Small Town level at minimum) via scaling from Budou.

1. It was not casual, she couldn't use her powers for a while after doing it, it strained her.

2. It's an outlier and wasn't even his final attack, merely him gathering clouds in preparation for the fight.

3. Small town level, again, is the maximum feat she gets (its even low small town) and in now way should she be boosted up to a value 10^6 times more because of a casual feat by someone who is supposed to be on par with her at best, which clearly makes it an outlier.

 

[Alakabamm]

I don't see why Tatsumi can't be scaled to Esdeath though, he is a match for her.

 

[Nibbler3100]

I do not agree with the fact that Budou's feat should be taken seriously it was his max power attack at the end it was City Level and it shouldn't be an outlier due to Mine having nearly matched it's power is already ranked at Small City Level this verse needs some changes.

However, Tatsumi should most definitely be on par with Esdeath in terms of AP and Durability. Esdeath is in no way shape or form a Glass Cannon she has the blood of her Teigu coursing through her veins she barely wears any armor and is yet able to fight blow for blow with Tatsumi. She's a Top Tier in the verse, her Durability is at least that of Small Town Level seeing as Tatsumi still can't reach her power but he's getting closer, an evolved Tatsumi in the recent chapter has destroyed an attack of her which is by confirmation of her page an Small Town Level attack in potency even though she can easily be City Level currently due to performing this feat at max power when she first obtained her ability now she has mastered it and can accomplish such things casually shown by keeping an entire army up and still being able to hold her own.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Nibbler: That Small City level calc for Mine should be updated. Considering that Mine absolutely blasted through Budou's blast which was calculated at City level, Mine's blast should at least be City level, or higher.

So, for Tatsumi/Esdeath, the following stats are:

Attack Potency: At least Small Town level, likely higher

Speed: Massively Hypersonic


For Budou, the following stats should be:

Attack Potency: Small Town level normally, City level via Solid Shooter

Speed: Hypersonic+ with Massively Hypersonic reactions/combat speed.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

He was a match, yeah

But there no proof of... You know what? Let's make this easier, any proof or image of Tatsumi destroying Esdeath Ice?

 

[Alakabamm]

http://b.mhcdn.net/store/manga/9229/056.0/compressed/u011.jpg?v=1422212821 http://b.mhcdn.net/store/manga/9229/056.0/compressed/u012.jpg?v=1422212821

 

[Drellix]

Note here, that this is CB version of Susanoo and he still couldn't break it. Just pushed it.

 

[Drellix]

Tatsumi also broke through it here as well.

 

[Drellix]

Bump

 

[Lina_Shields]

So, someone take a look at Tatsumi's lightning feats. I want to make a point here that if Tatsumi did not get behind Budou as soon as the lightning crashed the ground, Budou would have noticed and retaliated immediately. The calc that I made proves this.

Tatsumi could have been even further behind Budou when the lightning crashed, which makes Tatsumi's speed even higher.

 

[Drellix]

Can we get anyone to give a second opinion on that calc?

 

[Alakabamm]

Well, I am fine with the clouds here I guess because depth doesn't appear to be a thing (lightning bolts maintain consistent width throughout height increase). I still think Budo is a definite outlier however.

 

[Drellix]

Don't take this in a rude way, but I'm not seeing how that's an outlier to the series. Could you explain?

 

[Alakabamm]

I did in a couple posts above, but:

a) it is not consistent with Esdeath

b) it is casual on top of that

c) it makes him out to be more powerful than the ultimate teigu that we just saw revealed

d) it doesn't make sense in the context of the series (if the top tiers can city bust, they stomp everyone wayyyy harder than they do in the series)

 

[Drellix]

Okay. I see the one with Shikoutazer. But Esdeath hasn't shown anything like the river freeze since. And the Prime Minister dealt with D by saying that Budo would never have gone for them at all. And it's not that it was casual. That was his trump card, and in this series, trumps cards are all last ditch moves, as they take up a ton of energy, except for ones like Leone and Run, where it's a purely defensive ones. And he said he had used up a lot of his charge, so naturally, it could have been a lot stronger.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Alaka: The thing here is that we don't know the true capacity of the ultimate teigu however, so we would have to wait until more chapters come out.

However, the Budo calc is a bit hard to read, so it's hard to see what Iwan did to get City level in that calc. If the low end for the Budo calc is used, which is Small City level, it is actually plausible for Esdeath to freeze the entire river, which also results in a Small City level (likely higher considering it's an actual river and not a lake).

Also, Esdeath > Budo, so Esdeath would definitely power-scale from Budou.

 

[Drellix]

Just so we're clear, I can scale Tatsumi to Esdeath in AP and Durability, right?

 

[Lina_Shields]

I believe you can do so.

 

[Drellix]

Also, would Wave get scaled to Tatsumi for fighting with him?

 

[Alakabamm]

Can Tatsumi be scaled to Esdeath -> yes, Incursio V2 Tatsumi

Can Wave get scaled to Tatsumi -> yes, Incursio V1 Tatsumi

I know that Wave received a powerup but I would like to see proof he is now on par with Esdeath before scaling him to V2

 

[Gemmysaur]

Maybe, show Dual Teigu Wave actually being on par with V2 Incursio.

Tatsumi didn't seem to be bothered in the slightest when DT Wave used Grand Fall Flugel.


Tatsumi calm as flock.

If anything, it looked like he only matched the force of GFF and didn't bother running straight after Wave since the guy was unarmored in his next appearance.

 

[Drellix]

Last two panels. Wave bridged the gap in power. Also the face Wave is making isn't because he can't beat Tatsumi, it's because he can't get to Kurome. His drive is completely about Kurome. It was never to fight Tatsumi.

 

[Alakabamm]

There still isn't enough proof to scale to Esdeath

 

[Drellix]

Here. It's stated that she's not strong enough to wield a second Teigu. Here is stated he does have the physical strength and force of will to do it.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Tatsumi still didn't look pressured or anything so there's that.

There's also what Wave said here in the page you gave. How do we interpret this?


Tatsumi vs Wave post-fight

"The way you are now, it's not something that'd even make you flinch...But I feel like a crash of elephants just danced on me.
But it was all I could do just to keep up with you...Truth be told, I got off pretty easy."

This statement is rather vague to me but from my understanding, Wave is talking about how he had to ignore the warning labels of dual wielding teigu just so he doesn't get left behind, not to equalize with Tatsumi.

The pic I posted of their faces, I was referring to Tatsumi who looks calm and was only holding Wave down, even when he was dual wielding, or atleast looks like it.

Also, Esdeath's AP comes from her power and not physical strength. Not to mention her teigu is literally inside her body so we can't really take her words at face value for that methinks as a merging teigu like that and Incursio may not allow it.

There's just not enough evidence to prove either or.

 

[Drellix]

Esdeath is capable of hurt Tatsumi with basic, physical attacks. Wave is strong then that. And look at the last bubble on the left panel.

"I wouldn't have had to throw caution to the wind to bridge the gap on strength..."

As I said, Wave automatically got a power up just from equipping it. Whether he goes to Small Town level, is another issue, but as of now he should at least go to MCB because of him getting stronger, in the least.

He didn't look pressured because all he had to do is keep Wave away, which, might I add, he successfully did so, and in his base form no less. Wave was hell bent on trying to only get to Kurome. His mind was not on fighting Tatsumi. He was just an obstacle to him, which he got past.

 

[Alakabamm]

We don't have an MCB feat to scale to him. He either gets it or doesn't. IMO he doesn't.