[Mega Man Battle Network] Speed Downgrades

[AlloyAmi]

Wanted to quickly revise the speed to get it out of the way so here we go.

Currently, the Battle Network series' speed is listed as:

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Fought and defeated Duo, who can be summoned nearly instantaneously across interstellar distances as part of his Mega Chip, fought Geo Stelar who moves at 2.6 Billion C in the crossover, Ran through the entire Cyber World in a short amount of time in the manga) | Massively FTL+ (Utterly dominated Nebula Grey, who easily countered MegaMan and Bass in the movie). Higher in Bass Cross and Beast Out (Shown to be many times faster than base, routinely blitzing the Cybeasts and other foes) | Massively FTL+ (At least 60.4 Quadrillion C via this calc, is vastly superior to his base form, who searched the entire Cyber World in a short amount of time)

However this has several issues even ignoring the composited aspect of it.

"Fought and defeated Duo who can be summoned nearly instantaneously across interstellar distances as part of his Mega Chip"

First and foremost, Mega Chips aren't literally summoning the character, they are recreated copies with their data in a chip. That is why boss Navis which have NO reason to ever help you in the story can be used as attacks even against them in rematches after defeating them and gaining their data. We also see characters can give others their data such as with Roll to help without even them being there. Even more issue with the Duo.EXE stuff in specific, he's canonically sleeping as he travels the universe after his defeat in 4, and won't come back until decades or even centuries when the rocket he is in eventually passes by Earth again, so this chip objectively cannot be the actual duo. Theres also the fact that its not even obtainable in the game and its some E reader exclusive secret chip bonus in 4. and in later games its only part of a dubiously canon post game which battle network for the most part kinda just likes having some aspects for fun, but are filled with massive contradictions if taken 100% literal as we see many aspects of it arent canon since the very first game with how you can even fight bass. duo ever appearing again period outright just contradicts the narrative with his final words in 4. nor is he even connected to earths cyberworld anymore and has no way to access it so it would be literally impossible to even reach them.

"fought Geo Stelar who moves at 2.6 Billion C in the crossover"

Regarding Geo scaling, I think that this falls under this issue under crossover scaling where the devs just dont care and generally equalized them for fun game, and theres a multitude of other things that can be brought up that put geo far above battle network with general lore in the series as well even before the 3rd game. Even after the matter, the very same game where they crossover shows that base omega xis' data is able to CASUALLY blitz exe while trying to TEACH him an attack with EXE noting hes way too fast and has wonders how geo can keep up with such speed. And omega xis in base is severely weaker while away from his planet, hense why he fuses with Geo to begin with.

Theres also the fact that scaling them to each other can get pretty circular and just doesnt make sense as Geo was severely holding back a lot in the initial fight, even though EXE was serious. Which implies that a casual Geo is on par with BN1 EXE. But then clock man is shown as being able to hold his own against a serious Geo, but he can also hold his own against a serious EXE.

TLDR: serious EXE=casual Geo<serious Geo=ClockMan=Serious EXE<base omega xis while AWAY from his planet with this scene lol

overall this just doesnt work, its just meant to be a fun crossover and they didnt put much thought beyond that into it.

"Ran through the entire Cyber World in a short amount of time in the manga"

The running through the cyberworld feat is also part of the non canon manga. and even then, the calc is wrong as it assumes the cyberworld is universal in scale when the manga itself doesnt even agree with this notion, with it directly establishing that its global in scale with it extending to satellites at most.

"Utterly dominated Nebula Grey, who easily countered MegaMan and Bass in the movie"

"Shown to be many times faster than base, routinely blitzing the Cybeasts and other foes"

the next key is again explained from a non canon movie, and his speed should just become '''Higher" with Transformations as they are a general boost in game, and the same goes for bass cross and beast out.

"At least 60.4 Quadrillion C via this calc, is vastly superior to his base form, who searched the entire Cyber World in a short amount of time"

Same issue for the last key, anime only feat, along with no proof that the cyberworld is a universe in that calc, and if anything theres proof to suggest its also global in scale yet again there, so this would also need a recalc for an eventual anime profile.

What does that leave us with?

In Network Transmission, EXE can dodge what appears to be lasers from brightman.exe who is also described to use light in their attacks. Theres also pharaohman.exe who shoots lasers with this attack that is consistently refered to as a laser. Stoneman.exe also has a stated to be laser attack, though i will say it has to be very narrowly dodged if youre in the same row as the attack is being shot. There is also laserman.exe who can shoot laser's through his eyes and other general attacks/techniques. Lastly, Duo also uses what is stated to be a laser.
(Brightman's doesnt behave like proper light, waiting on more input regarding the rest but it likely requires more proof to meet light standards)

For lower stuff if these don't work for rela to ftl, he can dodge some lightning attacks from elecman.exe as well lightning from fodder enemies in the very first game (the attack looks like this). He can also dodge these lightning spark balls from cloudman.exe's clouds.

Update: I was able to calculate EXE traveling to Meteor Comp to Relativistic Speeds and it has already been evaluated by Migue79, this would scale to travel speeds only.

Agree - GyroNutz, FinePoint, TyranoDoom30, TheHedgememe, Lilybitdun

Disagree -

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Agreed

 

[AlloyAmi]

i made this an article by accident hopefully a staff can fix it lmao

 

[TyranoDoom30]

i made this an article by accident hopefully a staff can fix it lmao

Tbh i never understood the point of it when it's just the same deal but whatever

 

[TheHedgememe]

I think it's reasonable to remove the feats from the anime/manga that's non-canon. Don't know what to add besides that as I'm not knowledgeable enough in Battle Network to really corroborate or debunk these arguments.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Agree completely, wild how many non-canon things are used on the profile
Btw is there even a reason why they would scale to summoning speed in the first place?

 

[AlloyAmi]

Agree completely, wild how many non-canon things are used on the profile
Btw is there even a reason why they would scale to summoning speed in the first place?

not really lol, they just assumed oh they can fight them so they should scale to this imaginary travel speed feat in all regards even though its not even summoning the actual character considering hes canonically sleeping far away in his own comp space thats disconnected from earths as brought up before.

theres also the fact that this chip might not even be canon considering its either some ereader exclusive stuff or part of the dubiously canon post games in the games after 4 but i also added an explaination regarding the issues with those in the op for the sake of coverage.

 

[GyroNutz]

Couple of questions, noting I have basically no knowledge of Megaman Exe:

• The Geo Stelar crossover, was this feat performed/replicated in the actual crossover itself? The main argument against “in-verse” crossovers is power consistency. I guess I’d also ask to what degree does Geo Stelar consistently far out scale Exe in this crossover?
• Data chip scaling seems like a no-go yeah, based on what you showed the temporary creation explanation makes more sense than the summoning, and it fits with the context. Dubiously canon doesnt automatically exclude it though, since sometimes these side modes can be used to showcase character’s abilities in a low stakes setting (e.g. Kirby punching Popstar)
• Agreed that we shouldn’t use non-canon materials. For devils advocate (more curiosity than an actual argument), do you know why the manga/anime/movie were previously considered canon for this profile?
• Light man’s laser doesnt behave like actual light, turning like that without a change in medium. The other two likely won’t be considered SoL either unless they have further points towards our light/laser standards.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Geo Stelar crossover, was this feat performed/replicated in the actual crossover itself?

The feat is from the Third Game of MegaMan StarForce, while the crossover is using Geo between StarForce 1 and 2

Geo Stelar consistently far out scale Exe in this crossover?

Geo had to hold back the entire time to avoid accidentally killing MegaMan.Exe and causing a time paradox. Like the OP suggested, the game treats StarForce MegaMan as much stronger than MegaMan.Exe

do you know why the manga/anime/movie were previously considered canon for this profile?

It was made under a composite canon back in 2016. There was never a CRT or anything stating they're canon to each other afaik

 

[AlloyAmi]

Couple of questions, noting I have basically no knowledge of Megaman Exe:

• The Geo Stelar crossover, was this feat performed/replicated in the actual crossover itself? The main argument against “in-verse” crossovers is power consistency.

the feats come from geos games, the crossover itself is featless outside of "scales to geo", which funnily enough not even the crossover itself really supports that as i explained with my omega xis point.

• I guess I’d also ask to what degree does Geo Stelar consistently far out scale Exe in this crossover?

its not currently on the profiles considering how outdated they are and theres not a single key to show off exes progression throughout the games (theres a lot, i can have 3 keys minimum for just the 1st game), but exe should be tier 9 during this crossover, while geo should be around tier 4.

• Dubiously canon doesnt automatically exclude it though, since sometimes these side modes can be used to showcase character’s abilities in a low stakes setting (e.g. Kirby punching Popstar)

yeah the chip is literally just a what if you got to use him as an attack just like the rest of the navi chips, i just felt like that was something i should point out though.

• Agreed that we shouldn’t use non-canon materials. For devils advocate (more curiosity than an actual argument), do you know why the manga/anime/movie were previously considered canon for this profile?

profile really old, i think its moreso that it was a composite rather then them being considered canon considering how very blatantly non canon they are to anyone who has ever touched the series and then checked them out even slightly. theres even official statements to go along with it, and capcoms view of making adaptations too close to the game canon defeats the purpose of the adaptation to them and they want the authors to be as free as possible when writing them. xdive lore also fully puts the nail in the coffin and confirm only games are canon and the entire multiverse of the game canon consists of only game data with an interview also confirming this for why crossovers with current alternate media like mr mega man (manga) cant appear in a game that encompasses the entire franchise and multiverse.

regarding why nobody updated it, i genuinely dont think the majority of this community has played nor cares about battle network so nobody bothered updating it. i have major plans to at the very least overhaul their main statistics and in another thread ongoing right now the conclusion as of now is that they are tier 6 (until my tier 5 calc gets evaluated) and any tier 2 scaling isnt legit though i might organize this in a new thread if needed.

• Light man’s laser doesnt behave like actual light, turning like that without a change in medium. The other two likely won’t be considered SoL either unless they have further points towards our light/laser standards.

i kinda assumed this would happen so are we just looking at the lightning feats then?

 

[GyroNutz]

The answers to all of the above questions are reasonable, so yeah I’d support removing this speed rating.

i kinda assumed this would happen so are we just looking at the electricity feats then?

Of what you listed, yeah. Are there any cloud to ground lightning feats, like from cloud man or something?

 

[AlloyAmi]

The answers to all of the above questions are reasonable, so yeah I’d support removing this speed rating.


Of what you listed, yeah. Are there any cloud to ground lightning feats, like from cloud man or something?

he doesnt have any literal cloud to ground distance stuff, cloudman.exe just has his clouds shoot lightning spark ball projectiles similar to other attacks in the series like this here.

On an semi related note, I do have a speed feat that could calculate higher, but it would only scale to travel speed. Basically Mega Man can travel to the meteor comp in a few seconds from earth by jacking in and traveling as data would, and meteor comp is located on an asteroid in space on its way to crash with earth.

Laserman.EXE is also able to replicate this same feat.

 

[FinePoint]

This seems very reasonable to me, though I am not knowledgeable on the verse.

 

[AlloyAmi]

How many staff agreements are needed for this thread btw?

 

[FinePoint]

How many staff agreements are needed for this thread btw?

Probably two.

 

[AlloyAmi]

so what speed would dodging these lightning attacks be rated under
Attack 1 (fodder enemies do this lightning attack)
Attack 2 (ElecMan.EXE's lighting)
Attack 3 (CloudMan.EXE's lightning spark balls)

and does that travel speed feat i brought up require a calculation?

and last thing would you mind tagging gyronuts if they have any final things to add? thank you

 

[FinePoint]

so what speed would dodging these electricity attacks be rated under
Attack 1 (fodder enemies do this attack)
Attack 2 (ElecMan.EXE)
Attack 3 (CloudMan.EXE)

and does that travel speed feat i brought up require a calculation?

and last thing would you mind tagging gyronuts if they have any final things to add? thank you

I couldn't tell you, since I'm not a Calc Group member.

@GyroNutz

 

[AlloyAmi]

I updated the original post with a Rela calc I was able to do and I already got it evaluated by Migue. I also added some extra laser feats but it likely falls under the same boat as before.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Attack 1 (fodder enemies do this lightning attack)

Not a speed since it is a rolling ball

Attack 2 (ElecMan.EXE's lighting)

If it's not hitscan, then you're moving your body length before the bolt crosses the entire screen. So some form of MHS+.

Attack 3 (CloudMan.EXE's lightning spark balls)

A ball of lightning isn't the same as a lightning bolt, so there would be no speed given

 

[AlloyAmi]

Not a speed since it is a rolling ball

If it's not hitscan, then you're moving your body length before the bolt crosses the entire screen. So some form of MHS+.

A ball of lightning isn't the same as a lightning bolt, so there would be no speed given

Assuming this also means the laser feats are a no go due to lack of proof beyond "laser", Am I good to apply this to the pages?:

Massively Hypersonic+ (Is capable of reacting to and dodging ElecMan.EXE's lightning before it hits the ground), Relatavistic via Jack In (By Jacking In, Mega Man's data is transfered into electronic devices to enter them. His data was able to be transfered to Meteor Comp in seconds, which is this fast)

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm fine with that

 

[AlloyAmi]

The changes have been applied and this can now be closed