-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Akame ga Kill God-Tiers tier adjustment,+ Esdeath revision (Read OP)
- Thread starter VersusJunkie54
- Start date
- Status
- 8,377
- 3,045
I mean, I can just make him 6-C for the same logic here (that key has yet to exist), especially considering that the calc was 3.7 Gigatons, and Link can defeat a dozen or so of guys who should be far stronger than that. So it doesn't change much to me.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #43
There you go! All is goodTriforcePower1 said:
- 1,415
- 46
Umm. I think that it should be 6-B instead of 6-C.
Simply put, i think that the Environmental Destruction thing is practically useless. I mean, if your capable of making a country wide storm that is capable of destroying a country, or bury it in snow, then that's illegal.
Simply put, i think that the Environmental Destruction thing is practically useless. I mean, if your capable of making a country wide storm that is capable of destroying a country, or bury it in snow, then that's illegal.
- 2,079
- 283
>then thats illegal
......?
Also didnt it take her building up power several days to do that?
......?
Also didnt it take her building up power several days to do that?
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #48
Then that would simpily be 6-B via prep.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #49
Okay to summarize the best suggestions, can we add this?
High 7-A for Forth Form Tatsumi, though it should be noted he One-Shotted Shikoutazer with extreme difficulty on a slightly weakened point.
Tyrant, At least High 7-A, Possibly 6-C
Esdeath & Ennoodzuno Akame, 6-C, though it should be noted that Esdeath would be above Ennodzuno were she at full strength
High 7-A for Forth Form Tatsumi, though it should be noted he One-Shotted Shikoutazer with extreme difficulty on a slightly weakened point.
Tyrant, At least High 7-A, Possibly 6-C
Esdeath & Ennoodzuno Akame, 6-C, though it should be noted that Esdeath would be above Ennodzuno were she at full strength
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #51
High 7-A is some tiny of a tier, (It's nearly pointless) Possibly 6-C makes sense.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #52
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #55
I still stand by Possibly 6-C for Tyrant. I wan't this to be concluded as well.VersusJunkie54 said:
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #57
It is not finished, and I don't think it will. Because to be frank, the staff here are kinda stubborn when it comes to quantifying this kind of stuff and change.
I could post some examples to prove that Kepekley's 10% stronger to One-Shot thingy is absurd, and makes no sense for a ton of verses.
I could post some examples to prove that Kepekley's 10% stronger to One-Shot thingy is absurd, and makes no sense for a ton of verses.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #59
There's been something that has been nagging me about Esdeath's ratings and the context behind them. These could very well be wrong, but I feel it's important to bring them up.
Is it any coincidence that Esdeath's best AP feat (One-Shotting Tyrant) was while under the effects of ISCIC?
While earlier in the story, Esdeath while not using any amps, has two incidents that challenge the current ratings.
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/Akame-ga-Kiru--053----Kill-the-Adversity?id=210800#34
Esdeath should have Danamaku btw
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/56-Kill-the-Great-General?id=219727#11
Tatsumi successfully lands a strike on Esdeath,
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/56-Kill-the-Great-General?id=219727#12
In the very next pannel she lets out a slight grunt of pain, and visibly winces.
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga...---Kill-the-Adversity--Part-002-?id=214498#30
Esdeath was threataned enough by a blast from Mine that she decided to use Mahapdama.
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/56-Kill-the-Great-General?id=219727#46
Esdeath states she can still feel the impact, and is impressed with Tatsumi's power.
I am aware that Esdeath let her emotions get the better of her, and allowed the blow to land. But she still took slight damage from it regardless.
So what am I suggesting? That Esdeath is only scales above Shikoutazer with ISCIC. With all this in mind, it's not a stretch to imagine that the Ice Storm boosts her physical power as well. Speaking of witch, Newton's Third Law would dictate that she withstood the energy of the Ice Storm releasing from her body, witch has already been calced at 6-B.
If this makes sense to everyone, I would propose At least 7-B, likely higher for Esdeath in base. 6-C with ISCIC active (Though to be frank she should be 6-B and there are more than enough reasons to think of it as such)
Is it any coincidence that Esdeath's best AP feat (One-Shotting Tyrant) was while under the effects of ISCIC?
While earlier in the story, Esdeath while not using any amps, has two incidents that challenge the current ratings.
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/Akame-ga-Kiru--053----Kill-the-Adversity?id=210800#34
Esdeath should have Danamaku btw
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/56-Kill-the-Great-General?id=219727#11
Tatsumi successfully lands a strike on Esdeath,
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/56-Kill-the-Great-General?id=219727#12
In the very next pannel she lets out a slight grunt of pain, and visibly winces.
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga...---Kill-the-Adversity--Part-002-?id=214498#30
Esdeath was threataned enough by a blast from Mine that she decided to use Mahapdama.
http://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/56-Kill-the-Great-General?id=219727#46
Esdeath states she can still feel the impact, and is impressed with Tatsumi's power.
I am aware that Esdeath let her emotions get the better of her, and allowed the blow to land. But she still took slight damage from it regardless.
So what am I suggesting? That Esdeath is only scales above Shikoutazer with ISCIC. With all this in mind, it's not a stretch to imagine that the Ice Storm boosts her physical power as well. Speaking of witch, Newton's Third Law would dictate that she withstood the energy of the Ice Storm releasing from her body, witch has already been calced at 6-B.
If this makes sense to everyone, I would propose At least 7-B, likely higher for Esdeath in base. 6-C with ISCIC active (Though to be frank she should be 6-B and there are more than enough reasons to think of it as such)
- 8,377
- 3,045
"In the very next pannel she lets out a slight grunt of pain, and visibly winces."
I think she more winced out of surprise more than pain.
"Esdeath was threataned enough by a blast from Mine that she decided to use Mahapdama."
Quite sure she did it more to catch Mine off-guard.
But you're right, base should probably get downgraded.
ISIC should be 6-Band I'm not saying that because I just discovered that Link would scale to 6-B and that 6-C is invalid.
I think she more winced out of surprise more than pain.
"Esdeath was threataned enough by a blast from Mine that she decided to use Mahapdama."
Quite sure she did it more to catch Mine off-guard.
But you're right, base should probably get downgraded.
ISIC should be 6-B
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #61
Yeah, pretty much. Esdeath without ISCIC has no feats putting her on Shikoutazer's level. She One Shotted Tyrant with the Ice Storm active.
Esdeath should scale to the Ice Storm via Newton's third law, and fighting someone nearly comparable to her who was able to physically harm her (Ennoodzuno Akame)
Esdeath should scale to the Ice Storm via Newton's third law, and fighting someone nearly comparable to her who was able to physically harm her (Ennoodzuno Akame)
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #62
Microbump, please read my posts above, it is important.
- 16,998
- 12,134
I have a feeling Newton's thrid law is really abused in order to avoid character's being glass canons and such. Furthermore you'd need to prove that her ISIC scales to her psychical stats due to our revisions. prove that Esdeath received 6-B stats all around the board whenever she needed prep to actually do the feat. Preferably without using Newton's thrid law since going by that logic All storm calcs would scale to the character to made said storm feat scale to the feat physically.
Long story short, Newton's Third Law doesn't work in this case. Unless you think that all storm calcs scale to SS via Newtons Third Law despite the recent revisions for them.
Long story short, Newton's Third Law doesn't work in this case. Unless you think that all storm calcs scale to SS via Newtons Third Law despite the recent revisions for them.
- 4,327
- 2,978
To add my two cents as I made Tatsumi and Esdeath Respect Threads for another battleboard:
Esdeath at base should be above Shikouteizer as Stage 4 Incursio Tatsumi was already on it's level and Esdeath stomped Tyrantatsumi who is equal, if not superior, to Stage 4.
Esdeath using Ice Storm - Commander in Chief does amplify her, per her own words and the words of others, but the issue here is it's an uquantifiable amp. It doesn't make sense that she would have 6-B stats after using an ability that has 6-B range basically.
Plus the fact that she explicitly states that she was building up power with the Ice Calvary over the past few days and it's all coming down on them. So that power of ISCIC is not in her stats.
Esdeath at base should be above Shikouteizer as Stage 4 Incursio Tatsumi was already on it's level and Esdeath stomped Tyrantatsumi who is equal, if not superior, to Stage 4.
Esdeath using Ice Storm - Commander in Chief does amplify her, per her own words and the words of others, but the issue here is it's an uquantifiable amp. It doesn't make sense that she would have 6-B stats after using an ability that has 6-B range basically.
Plus the fact that she explicitly states that she was building up power with the Ice Calvary over the past few days and it's all coming down on them. So that power of ISCIC is not in her stats.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #66
No, Newtons Third Law is perfectly valid. As she needed to have that level of durability in order to be able to activate the Ice Storm. That, and it was continulously active for hours on end, with her body being the source of the energy. I really wish people would not use "Esdeath needed prep for the Ice Storm" as an argument against it. That holds very little weight, and means practically nothing.
What are you talking about? Unless special exceptions are made, Characters need to have x level of durability to put out y level of energy resulting in a storm. EG All Might, he can pull in a thunderstorm with his punch. By this logic, he'd only be Low 7-C in durability, witch makes no sense since he can output High 7-A levels of energy without destroying his body.
If Esdeath did not have 6-B durability, logically her body should've been pulverized into dust or outright vaporized. Furthermore, she can fight someone who was nearly comparable to her, that was capable of damaging her in that state (Ennoodzuno Akame)
@IMade
Yes it does have 6-B range, but it explicity has 6-B AP. Your point?
And? The Power os ISCIC is directly connected to her, with her body literally being the source of its power.
What are you talking about? Unless special exceptions are made, Characters need to have x level of durability to put out y level of energy resulting in a storm. EG All Might, he can pull in a thunderstorm with his punch. By this logic, he'd only be Low 7-C in durability, witch makes no sense since he can output High 7-A levels of energy without destroying his body.
If Esdeath did not have 6-B durability, logically her body should've been pulverized into dust or outright vaporized. Furthermore, she can fight someone who was nearly comparable to her, that was capable of damaging her in that state (Ennoodzuno Akame)
@IMade
Yes it does have 6-B range, but it explicity has 6-B AP. Your point?
And? The Power os ISCIC is directly connected to her, with her body literally being the source of its power.
- 16,998
- 12,134
No, Newton's Third Law is not valid in this case. You cannot simply write off every feat as "Newton's Third Law." that's an incredibly fallacious argument that can lead to wanked and inflated stats. You know this for a fact, if you weren't aware of that I suggest you read the latest storm discussion we had here. By using Newtons Third Law you are saying that every storm calc scales to SS. It doesn't, and it doesn't in this case either. Also nice Golden Mean Fallacy, no All Might did his feat with a punch meaning it scales to him physically. Esdeath didn't create her storm with a punch or anything so Newtons Third Law means nothing here. As stated before you cannot use Newtons Third Law to justify her rating. Newton's Third Law needs to be looked at by a case by case basis and this is a case where it wouldn't apply. You cannot use Newtons Third Law in every argument for a feat, context matters here. Again read my argument, after the storm revisions we decided that storm don't scale to striking strength unless you can prove it actually scales. And without using the fallacious argument that is Newtons Third Law. Otherwise ALL storm feats would scale to Striking Strength. This argument is easily abused and fallacious.
You don't want us to use that argument? Too bad, Esdeath did need extensive prep in order to do this feat. I'd appreciate it if you stop abusing Newtons Third Law.
Esdeath did not cause her storm physically, All Might did there's a total difference. So the Burden of Proof falls on you to prove that Esdeath caused the storm physically without using Newtons Third Law
Esdeath wouldn't need 6-B durability so make the storm. Not sure how many times I've told you this already but you are abusing' the ever living hell out of Newtons Third Law despite it not even applying here. Also your Akame argument means moot, it's based off the assumptions that Esdeath scales physically to her storm which you have yet to prove with using and abusing Newtons Third Law
All your points are moot and are based off assumptions and fallacies. Now you need to prove that Esdeath scales physically legitimately.
"Kepekley23 wrote: "Please note that Striking Strength doesn't automatically scale from Attack Potency unless there are Feats suggesting otherwise. For example, if a character used their strongest energy blast to vaporize a city, it would only scale to their physical strength if they were able to harm opponents that can withstand the aforementioned energy blast, or vice-versa."
Esdeath does Not meet our criterias for her SS to scale to the AP. Akame was never hit with the blast she used for ISCM ergo they don't scale physically.
You don't want us to use that argument? Too bad, Esdeath did need extensive prep in order to do this feat. I'd appreciate it if you stop abusing Newtons Third Law.
Esdeath did not cause her storm physically, All Might did there's a total difference. So the Burden of Proof falls on you to prove that Esdeath caused the storm physically without using Newtons Third Law
Esdeath wouldn't need 6-B durability so make the storm. Not sure how many times I've told you this already but you are abusing' the ever living hell out of Newtons Third Law despite it not even applying here. Also your Akame argument means moot, it's based off the assumptions that Esdeath scales physically to her storm which you have yet to prove with using and abusing Newtons Third Law
All your points are moot and are based off assumptions and fallacies. Now you need to prove that Esdeath scales physically legitimately.
"Kepekley23 wrote: "Please note that Striking Strength doesn't automatically scale from Attack Potency unless there are Feats suggesting otherwise. For example, if a character used their strongest energy blast to vaporize a city, it would only scale to their physical strength if they were able to harm opponents that can withstand the aforementioned energy blast, or vice-versa."
Esdeath does Not meet our criterias for her SS to scale to the AP. Akame was never hit with the blast she used for ISCM ergo they don't scale physically.
- 1,959
- 133
I agree with Knight in this case. If you were to use Newton's Third Law, you would need substantial, in-story, evidence. We usually disregard it unless proven otherwise.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #69
I don't see how I am abusing Newtons Third law. You need to calm down a little Knight, you're back to needlessly getting agressive over minor issues. I'm not going to have a repeat of the shitstorm in the prior revision thread where the High 7-A ratings came from. So lets drop this issue.
But fine, it was merely a suggestion. But try not to blow up on other people for merely suggesting an idea. You have a consistent issue with this sort of thing.
But my point about Esdeath One-Shotting Tyrant while under the effects of ISCIC still stands. It's not a stretch to imagine that that is what put her above the likes of Shikoutazer's feat to begin with.
But fine, it was merely a suggestion. But try not to blow up on other people for merely suggesting an idea. You have a consistent issue with this sort of thing.
But my point about Esdeath One-Shotting Tyrant while under the effects of ISCIC still stands. It's not a stretch to imagine that that is what put her above the likes of Shikoutazer's feat to begin with.
- 16,998
- 12,134
I'm not acting aggressive in the slightest, stop overreacting. Nobody is acting heated. Also practice what you preach, you literally used strawmanned me several times in one comment.
I don't see how I am abusing Newtons Third law. You need to calm down a little Knight, you're back to needlessly getting agressive over minor issues. I'm not going to have a repeat of the shitstorm in the prior revision thread where the High 7-A ratings came from.
But fine, it was merely a suggestion. But try not to blow up on other people for merely suggesting an idea. You have a consistent issue with this sort of thing.
See the issue here? I'm not blowing up anything, I haven't insulted you, I haven't thrown shade at you, I haven't even been rude to you in any way shape or form. Matter of fact I've been respectful, you're the one who's acting aggressive for no reason.
No, one shotting Tyrant doesn't make her 6-B. Tyrant is High 7-A and she one shotted him while amped. At best that'd make her 6-C.
I don't see how I am abusing Newtons Third law. You need to calm down a little Knight, you're back to needlessly getting agressive over minor issues. I'm not going to have a repeat of the shitstorm in the prior revision thread where the High 7-A ratings came from.
But fine, it was merely a suggestion. But try not to blow up on other people for merely suggesting an idea. You have a consistent issue with this sort of thing.
See the issue here? I'm not blowing up anything, I haven't insulted you, I haven't thrown shade at you, I haven't even been rude to you in any way shape or form. Matter of fact I've been respectful, you're the one who's acting aggressive for no reason.
No, one shotting Tyrant doesn't make her 6-B. Tyrant is High 7-A and she one shotted him while amped. At best that'd make her 6-C.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #71
"You literally used Strawmanned me several times in one comment"
"No, one shotting Tyrant doesn't make her 6-B. Tyrant is High 7-A and she one shotted him while amped. At best that'd make her 6-C"
There was literally nothing in my comment that even implied that One-Shotting Tyrant advocates for 6-B. I meant that the effects of the Ice Storm is what made her High 7-A/6-C in the first place. And without it, she is more likely At least 7-B And I'm the strawman? Furthermore, I never strawmanned you to begin with, let alone "Several times in one comment" Stop overexaggerating. And yes, you are being agressive, your comment is littered with aggressive tones and words. That, and you have a consistent issue with being aggressive. (Just ask WeeklyBattles)
You were hardly "Respectful" In that comment. If anything, you were confrontational, and passive aggressive.
"No, one shotting Tyrant doesn't make her 6-B. Tyrant is High 7-A and she one shotted him while amped. At best that'd make her 6-C"
There was literally nothing in my comment that even implied that One-Shotting Tyrant advocates for 6-B. I meant that the effects of the Ice Storm is what made her High 7-A/6-C in the first place. And without it, she is more likely At least 7-B And I'm the strawman? Furthermore, I never strawmanned you to begin with, let alone "Several times in one comment" Stop overexaggerating. And yes, you are being agressive, your comment is littered with aggressive tones and words. That, and you have a consistent issue with being aggressive. (Just ask WeeklyBattles)
You were hardly "Respectful" In that comment. If anything, you were confrontational, and passive aggressive.
- 7,681
- 996
Please keep the discussion as civil as possible.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #73
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1752268
Anyways Knight, once you've calmed down, your imput would be apprecieated in this downgrade thread that has been grinding to a hault.
Anyways Knight, once you've calmed down, your imput would be apprecieated in this downgrade thread that has been grinding to a hault.
- 16,998
- 12,134
Versus I'm not gonna get into petty arguments with you. You're the one who needs to get his emotions in check like how Kepekley23 told you last time. As I don't even talk to Weekly anymore, much less attack him anymore. You're the one with a consistent issue with being aggressive ( Ask Kepekley23 and Unite my Rice. ) You're the one who told me to calm down despite me being calm, called me aggressive despite being calm, and said that I blow up on threads which is objectively false considering I've changed my behavior since my break. Again, you need to practice what you preach, you constantly have issues with others disagreeing with you and end up starting unnecessary drama and conflict. ( I.E Calling me aggressive, accusing me of blowing up, bringing up issues from the past I had with Weekly etc.)
Anyway I'm gonna ignore your attempts to derail this thread with drama.
It wouldn't make sense for Esdeath to be weaker than the Supreme Teigu even in base. She's fine where she's at.
Anyway I'm gonna ignore your attempts to derail this thread with drama.
It wouldn't make sense for Esdeath to be weaker than the Supreme Teigu even in base. She's fine where she's at.
- 16,998
- 12,134
VersusJunkie54 said:
After what just happened I'd rather not with all due respect.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #76
I am calm, nothing indicates that I am agitated right now. You are going out of your way to attack me for merely suggesting an idea for a revision, and pointing out that you need to keep your behavior in check.
Has your behavior changed? It has, but your past tendencies have hardly gone away.
Anyways, I'm not going to bother to even glance at your posts if you continue this petty little vendetta you have against me.
Has your behavior changed? It has, but your past tendencies have hardly gone away.
Anyways, I'm not going to bother to even glance at your posts if you continue this petty little vendetta you have against me.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #77
After what happened? This little dispute just now? How would that get in the way if a completely unrelated topic whatsoever?
- 16,998
- 12,134
It's not a petty vendetta, it's me pointing out the hypocrisy in your arguments. You started by attacking me for no reason. If it's important I'll give my input but I'd rather not comment on AgK threads anymore.
- 6,108
- 962
- Thread starter
- #79
How the **** does me giving a reminder to reign in the aggressive tones a little attacking you? This brings back the point of you overexgagerating things. Don't be calling me a hypocrite when you have acted this way to both me, and many other users in the past many times before.Knightofannihilation666 said:
I'm done arguing with you now. I would appreciate it if we could permanently drop the subject now.
- 16,998
- 12,134
Hmmm so now your cursing. That speaks for itself, listen I'm not angry nor am I agitated. I have no reason to get agitated over a debate for fictional characters. Now what does agitate me is whenever people assume I'm agitated and act like they're on the moral high ground. What agitates me is whenever people bring up past events in order to start drama again. What agitates me is people throwing around accusations. What agitates me is when people can't take their own advice.
You've been saying you're done with this for the past few comments. I'd also appreciate it if we dropped it like how I suggested awhile ago. If you wanna squash this "Vendetta" you think I have against you, you can leave me a message on my wall and I'll give you my Discord. Things aren't going to change unless we talk things through.
You've been saying you're done with this for the past few comments. I'd also appreciate it if we dropped it like how I suggested awhile ago. If you wanna squash this "Vendetta" you think I have against you, you can leave me a message on my wall and I'll give you my Discord. Things aren't going to change unless we talk things through.
- Status
