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Akainu vs Lille Barro

Excellence616 said:
It's on Lille profile. His Durability negation also includes Space manipulation.

And it's not by the name since durability can be negated through multiple means. Lille own is through space
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So space manipulation can effect any character that doesn't have resists to it but not resist negation?
 
Johner2133451 said:
So space manipulation can effect any character that doesn't have resists to it but not resist negation?
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Yes..

I.e, A1 can resist 2,000 degree Celsius of heat. A2 can resist 1 million degree Celsius of heat. A3 can neg the resistance of A1.

A3 fights A2. We can't assume that A3 can negate A2 resistance since we have to prove that he can negate heat that is higher than 2,000 degree Celsius.

C1 is resistant to Law manipulation. C2 is resistant to Darkness manipulation. C3 can negate C2 resistance. We can't say C3 can negate C1 resistance to Law manipulation until C3 shows he can.

Also

B1 can negate durability by reality wrapping. B2 can negate durability using telekinesis.

Those two type of Durability negation are very different.
 
Excellence616 said:
Yes..

I.e, A1 can resist 2,000 degree Celsius of heat. A2 can resist 1 million degree Celsius of heat. A3 can neg the resistance of A1.

A3 fights A2. We can't assume that A3 can negate A2 resistance since we have to prove that he can negate heat that is higher than 2,000 degree Celsius.

C1 is resistant to Law manipulation. C2 is resistant to Darkness manipulation. C3 can negate C2 resistance. We can't say C3 can negate C1 resistance to Law manipulation until C3 shows he can.

Also

B1 can negate durability by reality wrapping. B2 can negate durability using telekinesis.

Those two type of Durability negation are very different.
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Is there an official ranking on which abilities is more powerful than the other?
 
Johner2133451 said:
So regarding space manip can effect anyone with no resists but Resist negate doesn't is based on headcanon?
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Both are based on the feats, context,mechanics, function, lore, etc.

Space manip inherently just happens to be an ability that's way more leniant due to the actual mechanics of it being able to effect things regardless of tier (up to a point, something like a weird fucky physiology, HDE, stuff above the High 3-A, being outside of space, range stuff, etc can obviously negate it, unless the thing in question has feats of doing so).

The problem, here, is you aren't using common sense. Like take time stop, it's obviously gonna work regardless of AP as long as the foe in question doesn't resist it, because they still abide by the laws of time (and if they don't, well yeah they'd resist). Space Manip is generally the same, do they occupy space? Is the character in question able to interact with space itself and sever it for example in a way that doesn't actively interact with stats? Etc.

Like literally just think, how do these abilities work? What is the mechanics behind them? Any reason why it should or might not work depending on context? All you're doing is looking at the ability name, when even abilities with the same name can vary, all the ability titles get used for, is for categorization and rule of thumb.
 
Chariot190 said:
Both are based on the feats, context,mechanics, function, lore, etc.

Space manip inherently just happens to be an ability that's way more leniant due to the actual mechanics of it being able to effect things regardless of tier (up to a point, something like a weird fucky physiology, HDE, stuff above the High 3-A, being outside of space, range stuff, etc can obviously negate it, unless the thing in question has feats of doing so).

The problem, here, is you aren't using common sense. Like take time stop, it's obviously gonna work regardless of AP as long as the foe in question doesn't resist it, because they still abide by the laws of time (and if they don't, well yeah they'd resist). Space Manip is generally the same, do they occupy space? Is the character in question able to interact with space itself and sever it for example in a way that doesn't actively interact with stats? Etc.

Like literally just think, how do these abilities work? What is the mechanics behind them? Any reason why it should or might not work depending on context? All you're doing is looking at the ability name, when even abilities with the same name can vary, all the ability titles get used for, is for categorization and rule of thumb.
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Yeah but what makes resist negation not included here
 
Johner2133451 said:
Yeah but what makes resist negation not included here
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The fact what he's negated and what's he trying to negate is like, a fucktrillion times gap?

How's it work? Does he simply lower the resistance? Lowering 1500000 by 25000 ain't gonna do anything. Does it work on innate fundamental physiology? The page itself seems to word it as a devil fruit thing, like obviously they can't just make someone super vulnerable to whatever, there's evidently a baseline to prevent a dude from "negating" say, wind res, and then the dude dying to a light breeze. Can he negate resistances above those he's negated? Why would we assume so? Not all resistances built the same.

Unless there's lore, context, or details that suggest otherwise, but I'm not seeing anything, from what I'm seeing, he negated Ace's resistance, because Haki can nullify a devil's fruit physiological immunity to its own element or something like that. If that is not correct, show examples.
 
Chariot190 said:
The fact what he's negated and what's he trying to negate is like, a fucktrillion times gap?

How's it work? Does he simply lower the resistance? Lowering 1500000 by 25000 ain't gonna do anything. Does it work on innate fundamental physiology? The page itself seems to word it as a devil fruit thing, like obviously they can't just make someone super vulnerable to whatever, there's evidently a baseline to prevent a dude from "negating" say, wind res, and then the dude dying to a light breeze. Can he negate resistances above those he's negated? Why would we assume so? Not all resistances built the same.

Unless there's lore, context, or details that suggest otherwise, but I'm not seeing anything, from what I'm seeing, he negated Ace's resistance, because Haki can nullify a devil's fruit physiological immunity to its own element or something like that. If that is not correct, show examples.
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So why would space manip bypass ap gaps but not resist negate?

OP chars are accepted to resists to resist negation btw
It's like saying soul crush can't effect people who has no resists to soul manip just simply because they are stronger
 
Johner2133451 said:
So why would space manip bypass ap gaps but not resist negate?
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Is character occupying space, yes? That's why.
Johner2133451 said:
OP chars are accepted to resists to resist negation btw
It's like saying soul crush can't effect people who has no resists to soul manip just simply because they are stronger
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What's that have to do with anything, at all. It's literally a non-sequitor. Prove Akainu can nullify a heat res like, idk, 1000x above his own? What's even the mechanics of it. You didn't answer even a single question. In fact, that yap you just gave seems to implicate it's a haki/buso thing and having more lets you negate another's. That doesn't really mean much if someone's resistance isn't tied to mechanics like that and is just a physiological thing.
 
Chariot190 said:
Is character occupying space, yes? That's why.

What's that have to do with anything, at all. It's literally a non-sequitor. Prove Akainu can nullify a heat res like, idk, 1000x above his own? What's even the mechanics of it. You didn't answer even a single question. In fact, that yap you just gave seems to implicate it's a haki/buso thing and having more lets you negate another's. That doesn't really mean much if someone's resistance isn't tied to mechanics like that and is just a physiological thing.
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What I don't understand, where is the logic behind resistance negation is limited to AP when there is not even an implication. So power nulifying is also ap based?
 
Johner2133451 said:
What I don't understand, where is the logic behind resistance negation is limited to AP when there is not even an implication.
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What? Nobody is saying it's tied to AP. We're saying Akainu negated this resistance, but this dude's res is like 1000x better, so why assume Akainu can negate it to a degree where his heat would be relevant? It's legit like a magnitude apart. How does Akainu even negate resistances? If it's the buso/haki gap thing, that doesn't really play a factor in resistances not tied to some sort of energy source. How does it even work? Does he simply lower it? If it's that, lower 15,000,000 res by 25,000, isn't gonna change anything.

Context, mechanics, and details matter. Instead of saying the same thing on repreat, actually answer the question.
So power nulifying is also ap based?
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Uh, sometimes? Depends how it's done.
 
Chariot190 said:
What? Nobody is saying it's tied to AP. We're saying Akainu negated this resistance, but this dude's res is like 1000x better, so why assume Akainu can negate it to a degree where his heat would be relevant? It's legit like a magnitude apart. How does Akainu even negate resistances? If it's the buso/haki gap thing, that doesn't really play a factor in resistances not tied to some sort of energy source. How does it even work? Does he simply lower it? If it's that, lower 15,000,000 res by 25,000, isn't gonna change anything.

Context, mechanics, and details matter. Instead of saying the same thing on repreat, actually answer the question.

Uh, sometimes? Depends how it's done.
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That only works if Lille has resists to resist negation but since he doesn't, all of his resistances gets nulified no matter what
 
Johner2133451 said:
That only works if Lille has resists to resist negation but since he doesn't, all of his resistances gets nulified no matter what
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Again, big no limits fallacy, Akainu has not shown to be able to negate heat resistance on the level of THE ******* SUN. Would you say that Akainu could negate, what, Knives Millions' resistance to ABSOLUTE HOT temperatures?
 
Johner2133451 said:
That only works if Lille has resists to resist negation but since he doesn't, all of his resistances gets nulified no matter what
Click to expand...
Are you incapable of properly answering the questions?

You realize nobody is buying into your excessive use of NLF's. Simply ignoring questions isn't gonna change anyone's opinion, it's just gonna enforce the fact you're taking shit at face value to the point of wanking.

Now, actually answer the questions instead of just saying the exact same shit on repeat as if it isn't being ACTIVELY contested. Like how hard is this? Maybe Akainu's res neg could neg Lille's, but you aren't exactly cooperating in regards to prove that.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Again, big no limits fallacy, Akainu has not shown to be able to negate heat resistance on the level of THE ******* SUN. Would you say that Akainu could negate, what, Knives Millions' resistance to ABSOLUTE HOT temperatures?
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Yes, it's literally in the description of the ability. "removing resistances of one's character". It's not nlf unless you implying space manip or soul manip is
 
Johner2133451 said:
Yes, it's literally in the description of the ability. "removing resistances of one's character". It's not nlf unless you implying space manip or soul manip is
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No, it's a NLF when you can't understand such a simple think. You're bordering on purposeful ignorance. You can't say someone can effect something in which they haven't been shown to be able before. That goes for this and haki's resistance negation, Akainu hasn't been shown to be able to negate the resistance of temperatures up to 15,000,000 degrees celcius. It's wank to keep arguing he can.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
No, it's a NLF when you can't understand such a simple think. You're bordering on purposeful ignorance. You can't say someone can effect something in which they haven't been shown to be able before. That goes for this and haki's resistance negation, Akainu hasn't been shown to be able to negate the resistance of temperatures up to 15,000,000 degrees celcius. It's wank to keep arguing he can.
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Ok do you believe something like fear or soul manip effecting someone with higher AP is nlf or no? Remember they don't have resists to such abilities
 
Johner2133451 said:
Isn't how abilities work if have ability A, you can effect someone who has no resists to A. But if they do, you can't effect them
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No? That's such a stupidly gross oversimplifcation of shit it isn't even funny. It depends on feats, context, mechanics of how shit work, the very abilities in question, etc. That is like the most basic on paper at face value in a vacuum simplification possible. The shit in question still matters.

Now, instead of wasting everyone's time, are you going to answer the very simple questions? Or can I assume that the lack of such means my presumption was more or less spot on and thus argument is over.
 
Chariot190 said:
No? That's such a stupidly gross oversimplifcation of shit it isn't even funny. It depends on feats, context, mechanics of how shit work, the very abilities in question, etc. That is like the most basic on paper at face value in a vacuum simplification possible. The shit in question still matters.

Now, instead of wasting everyone's time, are you going to answer the very simple questions? Or can I assume that the lack of such means my presumption was more or less spot on and thus argument is over.
Click to expand...
Is there an official guidebook on this website on how abilities work on others instead of simple Yes effect on no resists, No effect on with resists? What presumption means?
 
Johner2133451 said:
Is there an official guidebook on this website on how abilities work on others instead of simple Yes effect on no resists, No effect on with resists?
Click to expand...
No? Because context matters, almost everything is case by case to some degree. Which is kinda why shit should be explained in detail on profiles yet half the time nobody does 🗿
Johner2133451 said:
What presumption means?
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In this context, an educated guess based on the presented info and writings on the Haki profile.
 
Chariot190 said:
No? Because context matters, almost everything is case by case to some degree. Which is kinda why shit should be explained in detail on profiles yet half the time nobody does 🗿

In this context, an educated guess based on the presented info and writings on the Haki profile.
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Ok sorry for wasting your time because I'm not that good in abilities. I just assume you can effect someone if they have no resists to that ability
 
Chariot190 said:
No? Because context matters, almost everything is case by case to some degree. Which is kinda why shit should be explained in detail on profiles yet half the time nobody does 🗿

In this context, an educated guess based on the presented info and writings on the Haki profile.
Click to expand...
Can you give your input on this btw? A staff agreeing that Akainu's resist negate could work on Lille's resist of temperature https://vsbattles.com/threads/resistance-negation-vs-layers.172194/#post-6902508
 
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