Aizen vs Toneri Otsutsuki

[Litentric_Teon]

Looking at the AP values given above, Doesn't Toneri have a rather huge advantage there? To the point where he could one shot Aizen? With speed equalized, Toneri has the capacity to dodge the vast majority of Aizen's kido attacks(as the majority must cross some kind of distance), and more than enough AP to break out of something like the Black Box (even if he uses the incantation). His real shot would be his KS, but, based upon what's been said above, it would be out of character for this version to use it. It seems far more likely that he'd be one shot by a hit that catches him only a tad bit more than a graze. The AP difference is very large (1.2 vs 597), and I think that it should be more so taken into account.

 

[Rocker1189]

A problem with that is, does the KS cause someone eho can sense chakra or Reiatsu in this case to mistake where his Reiatsu signature is come from? Because with Byakugan I am pretty certain, that despite the illusion Toneri will be able to detect where the real him is.

 

[LordAizenSama]

If Yhwach who can see every possible future didnt see that Aizen was using KS I dont think byakugun is going to cut it.

@Litentic Aizen is immortal and has good regen. Also iirc the calc for the meteor is what, 29 petaton? Aizen will be probably a bit above that and will defeat toneri eventually.

 

[Rocker1189]

You seem to forget that Toneri has the TSBs which prevent regen as they negate ninjutsu which will be translated to reiatsu abilities. And if Aizen gets hit as a whole even his core would be destroyed, isnt that what is needed for him to die? And I ahave not seen you counter my last point about KS.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Um no. Thats a false equivalency. His regen is not ninjutsu.

What about KS? the byakugan isnt enough

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Aizen's scaled via being immeasurably stronger than Kenpachi's 36 petatons feat which the latter accomplished with: A) With his eyepatch on B) Without Bankai C) No efforts whatsoever

Toneri's AP advantage isn't as big as you might think.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

And lol at the guy who compared Fragor to a Bijudama,that thing was capable of burning Dangai Ichigo's arm. Aizen can spam High 6-A blasts all over Toneri's face

 

[Rocker1189]

Even if his regen is not gennjutsu does he not die as long as the crystal in his chest is destroyed? Also byakugan allows him to pin point people chakra so even with KS he will know where Aizen is as any illusions Aizen use will not have the same signature as him. Is is regen not through reiatsu? because if it is, through verse equalisation it will count as ninjutsu.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

KS mess up with 5 senses, and thus even if byakugan can pin point people chakra it will still be render inefective because byakugan still require you to use your senses(eyes) which can be mess up by KS, or more or less just like what hapen with Yhwach A since Yhwach can still see the futures but the futures that he see only base on his senses who have been fool by KS.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

yaw

Aizen easily for reasons above.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Byakugan can't deal with KS, lol.

Also, Toneri is 8.75 exatons. The calculation is right there in his page. I don't know why it's ignored every single time. Aizen can't scratch Toneri.

 

[Rocker1189]

I thought the whole Yhwach was basically thought of as PIS. Anyway if it is as you say then, I guess Aizen probably takes this. high diff.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Byakugan can't deal with KS, lol.

Also, Toneri is 8.75 exatons. The calculation is right there in his page. I don't know why it's ignored every single time. Aizen can't scratch Toneri.

So this was a waste of time. Nice.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

The Pis arrow is yes, Aizen KS is no.

But KS is likely can only affected Yhwach because Yhwach already under KS before he use the Almighty, since otherwise Yhwach should able to see Aizen use KS on him and thus Null Aizen KS in the first place.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^yeah. Still impressive tho

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Burning ruin everything

 

[Primaris_Brian]

As expected from the Troll King. :v

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

@Burning Full Fingers The 8.7 Exatons calc comes from Toneri's specific technique, it doesn't scale to his standard AP

 

[LordAizenSama]

Oh. Nevermind what I said than.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

ItalianGuy1234 save the day

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Anyway, these are the ways Aizen can win:

• Fragor spam

• Ultra Fragor to grab Toneri and blast him point blank

• Hadou 90 to crush him

• Kyoka Suigetsu to distract him

• Kido to keep Toneri from distance and blast him to pieces

• Outsmarting Toneri via skill & experience in CQC

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Burning Full Fingers The 8.7 Exatons calc comes from Toneri's specific technique, it doesn't scale to his standard AP

Huh? It's from him yanking the moon out of orbit and moving it towards the Earth. What technique?

 

[Primaris_Brian]

His energy sword thing?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Nah, that's Kinrin Tensei Baku, the one he used to slice the moon in half.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

So Burning still ruin everything

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Burning did nothing wrong.

 

[Dat_Dot]

So, Toneri normal AP is 8.75 exaton from pulling the moon but slicing the moon in half is only 597.5 Petatons?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah. One of the most popular things in The Last is him slicing the moon in half. It just has to be in his page, or there'd be constant requests.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Kinetic energy of celestial bodies tend to yield very good results. Yhwachs feat of lifting seireitei at the speed he did i would estimate now to be moon level somewhere

 

[Dat_Dot]

I see..

All argument and vote for Aizen in this thread is wasted then ovo

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Kinetic energy of celestial bodies tend to yield very good results. Yhwachs feat of lifting seireitei at the speed he did i would estimate now to be moon level somewhere

Do you mean it could be higher if he was Relativistic for example?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

So, just a min. Toneri is 8.75 exatons? Then Aizen can't scratch him. And simply because Aizen is superior to Kenpachi's 36 petaton feat, does not mean that we can simply say he's higher by an unknown amount, and use that value. It's a similar thing to Saitama. Both are extremely casual, but are limited by what their feats have shown. So Aizen's AP is only 36 for this battle, as that is who he's powerscaled to.

Also, no one seemed to address that most of the kido can be physically dodged, or that his AP would actually allow him to escape the black box in a similar fashion to Ichigo, simply without the loss of an arm as his AP advantage is greater than I had originally thought.

CQC combat would be disadvantageous to him here, for he could literally be turned to paste by a single hit from Toneri, even if it's a relatively glancing blow. He can't regenerate from that.

Fragor spam can be countered by truth seeking orbs, in particular as they ignore durability anyway.

Lastly, if KS isn't in character for Aizen to be used at this point, then I fail to see why it can be used as a valid argument.

Overall, I just can't see Aizen getting past Toneri's massive AP advantage. Sure, he has hax, but he still needs something to actually hit Toneri. His hax isn't such that it ignores durability.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I think it's inconclusive because of Aizen's Regenerationn.

Though Toneri could drain Aizen's power and dump him in a cage on the moon or mind control him, while leaving off to destroy Earth or something.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Aizen can just throw his sword. :V

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I know that meme. Who's it from?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

This mofo

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, that's him.

 

[Aizenishere]

So let me get this straight.. Aizen is in a matchup with a massive AP disadvantage where his HAX can't compensate mostly because he won't use it so he'll be tossed around like a rag doll until Toneri either finds a way to kill him or til he actually uses KS.

Two tings to address though: Yes KS will work. He can also manipulate reiatsu/Chakra awareness.

@Litemtric

He actually can regen from being turned to paste.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Oh. That's impressive. I was mistaken then. My apologies.

I'll switch to inconclusive for Burning's reasoning.

 

[Aizenishere]

I'll switch my vote to inconclusive for now aswell.