Aizen vs. Kyogre

[LordAizenSama]

Does Sheer cold still have it's craptastic accuracy in the anime?

In any case the assumption with having sheer cold being Kyogres Ace is that it uses it straight off the bat no questions asked. Which I don't think it ever has or would. Aizen on the otherhand uses KS as soon as possible in literally every fight which doesn't involve Ichigo. It all goes downhill for Kyogre after that.

 

[Volundox]

It has crappy accuracy for game balance but in the anime and manga its performed in different ways. Sometime its concentrated and sometimes its used as a much larger aoe attack. Aizen would have to be very careful not to get caught in it regardless of Kyogre being caught in KS.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But as Cal asked would it work on animals? Kyogre is esstentially a whale. And he would have to have Kyogre look at either KS or him in order to activate Perfect Hypnosis.

And i dont think so, however it shouldnt matter here for Kyogre who's entire range is all the oceans and seas on the planet itself. Accuracy is kind of irrelevant as far as that.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Aizen uses Kyoka Suigetsu. Better matchup would be Aizen vs Shadow Mewtwo.

Also Sheer Cold has 30% accuracy, so it won't work. If it did work all the time then it would've been spammed in both game and anime

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

To be fair OHKO moves are rarely ever spammed in anything.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thats only game mechanics. OHKO moves in the anime esstentially show very great accuracy, plus why should it matter to Kyogre about speficically hitting Aizen when the entire oceans and seas in the world is under his control? All Kyogre would have to do is freeze all of it.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

But as Cal asked would it work on animals? Kyogre is esstentially a whale. And he would have to have Kyogre look at either KS or him in order to activate Perfect Hypnosis.
And i dont think so, however it shouldnt matter here for Kyogre who's entire range is all the oceans and seas on the planet itself. Accuracy is kind of irrelevant as far as that.

Of course it would work, Kyogre isn't immune to status moves like hyponsis or confuse ray. Pokemons are not real animals, they're magical creatures

 

[LordAizenSama]

Unless Kyogre gives us a reason as to why it wouldn't work then theres no reason to assume that it wouldn't. And wasn't Kyogre controlled before? I can't quite remember.

While Kyogres range is indeed the oceans it is not the range of which it can use sheercold, which is the only thing of note as nothing else will stop Aizen here. Plus he can stand in the air anyways.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Thats only game mechanics. OHKO moves in the anime esstentially show very great accuracy, plus why should it matter to Kyogre about speficically hitting Aizen when the entire oceans and seas in the world is under his control? All Kyogre would have to do is freeze all of it.

Unfortunately no other pokemon has ever used sheer cold like that, other Kyogre would've stomped all other pokemon by spamming it. And no, it's not PIS. Sheer cold has poor application everywhere. Pokemon is all about efficiency, useless moves are never used frequently

 

[LordAizenSama]

Of course it would work, Kyogre isn't immune to status moves like hyponsis or confuse ray. Pokemons are not real animals, they're magical creatures

Great point.

 

[Volundox]

Multiple pokemon have shown wide application of the move so the accuracy likely isnt as bad as 30% but is probably by no means guaranteed to hit. Are all moves for Kogre allowed?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Unless Kyogre gives us a reason as to why it wouldn't work then theres no reason to assume that it wouldn't. And wasn't Kyogre controlled before? I can't quite remember.
While Kyogres range is indeed the oceans it is not the range of which it can use sheercold, which is the only thing of note as nothing else will stop Aizen here. Plus he can stand in the air anyways.

Kyogre has been controlled before yes however the problem is he was being controlled by the Red/Blue orbs which are explicity made with the purpose of controlling Kyogre and Groudon. They are basically ancient powers that were made to control them so I dont think thats a solid reason to say they can be controlled by just anyone. It's like Dialga and Palkia with the Lake Trio.

Really? If Kyogre has access to anything water related on the planet shouldnt be able to freeze said water?

I forgot about standing in the air.....tho doesnt Kyogre cause storms just with its mere presence like in ORAS? That would be an issue for Aizen if he wants to float in the air.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Are people really making up feats like Kyogre freezing the entire planet instantly? This is ridiculous. Can we please stick to feats please, not speculation?

 

[Volundox]

Kyogre has also shown to be able to fly/levitate out of the water iirc.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Kyogre was the one who created and spread the oceans on the entire planet. Why shouldnt it be assumed he has access to it and can manipulate it the way it wants it, such as freezing? It's the literal personification of the ocean itself.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@anime Faisal summed it up in his post. KS will work.

I don't think so. maybe standard Freezing (even this is questionable) but Sheer colding the entire earth seems to be wayyyy too much of a stretch for me.

...Why would a storm cause a issue to Aizen? what is it going to do ruin his fabulous hair? XD

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Kyogre did show the ability of flight/levitation in the Hoopa movie, also in that same movie Hoopa controlled Kyogre without the need for the red/blue orbs.

 

[Volundox]

Well we can very safely say KS will work but ill ask again does Kyogre have access to its entire learnset/moveset?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I don't think so. maybe standard Freezing (even this is questionable) but Sheer colding the entire earth seems to be wayyyy too much of a stretch for me.

I swear mate people are literally making up feats now lol

 

[LordAizenSama]

Well we can very safely say KS will work but ill ask again does Kyogre have access to its entire learnset/moveset?

I believe we only use the Naturally learnt moveset

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Kyogre has access to only moves it can learn via natural level-up.

 

[Volundox]

In that case i'll vote for aizen.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

If my math is right the current tally is 4 votes for Aizen, 1 for Kyogre

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@anime Faisal summed it up in his post. KS will work.
I don't think so. maybe standard Freezing (even this is questionable) but Sheer colding the entire earth seems to be wayyyy too much of a stretch for me.

...Why would a storm cause a issue to Aizen? what is it going to do ruin his fabulous hair? XD

Damn I forgot about Hoopa........tho Hoopa's mind hax is ******** :/

Well not the entire earth like the land, only the oceans and seas. Kyogre wouldnt be able to freeze something like Land thats under Groudon's domain

Obviously lol. Aizen forfeits cuz his hair will get soiled by the fat blue whale xD

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Kyogre could always use Muddy Water. As a side effect, it could blind Aizen and/or reduce view of the sword. Kyogre wouldn't know that was the case, it would just be common sense to assume that would be the case. A bonus if you will.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wait that reminds me

Can't Kyogre just resist KS or break it using Calm Mind? The description is that the user focuses its mind and spirit to raise itse sp.attack and defense. Here's what it looks like at least in manga terms:

Heres some possible scenerios:

1. From the glowing light part, once Kyogre uses the move he can just blind Aizen and for at least a few seconds his KS ritual will be interupted. Then Kyogre can go in and kill him with an attack (most likely Sheer Cold)

2. Its unlikely but Kyogre could just either resist its effects or outright negate it by focusing its mind. And since Kyogre is almost always in the water or under water he can spam it to help prepare against KS

3. Since its shown you have your eyes closed when using the move, Kyogre definitely wouldnt be looking at either Aizen or KS and thus he wouldnt be brought under the spell. Its eyes will even be glowing after it opens them so it could be a way to blind his view of KS.

Does anyone see issues with this?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Aizen doesn't need any ritual for KS, even being in his presence his enough to change people's perception (as shown with Yhwach). Calm mind is not a counter for telepathy, Kyogre would need move like refresh, aromatherapy or heal bell to cure the status conditions which it can't learn naturally by levelling up

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I thought you needed to look at Aizen in order to be caught under his spell. At least thats what i have been informed of when he did so to Ywach. If being in his presence is enough then whats the limitations or range of it?

How is it not a counter? It involves focusing your mind. Sounds like something that can resist mind control

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Aizen should takes this via KS, teleportation and kido techniques.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thats only game mechanics. OHKO moves in the anime esstentially show very great accuracy, plus why should it matter to Kyogre about speficically hitting Aizen when the entire oceans and seas in the world is under his control? All Kyogre would have to do is freeze all of it.

Unfortunately no other pokemon has ever used sheer cold like that, other Kyogre would've stomped all other pokemon by spamming it. And no, it's not PIS. Sheer cold has poor application everywhere. Pokemon is all about efficiency, useless moves are never used frequently

Wait PIS? I never said PIS i said it was game mechanics. And what do you mean by that? OHKO moves have been used multiple times in the anime and havent shown poor accuracy. For example, Guilotine has been used by Paul, Georgia and Alain and each time it has had very good accuracy. 2 out of this 3 have even landed hits on their opponents and have won.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I thought you needed to look at Aizen in order to be caught under his spell. At least thats what i have been informed of when he did so to Ywach. If being in his presence is enough then whats the limitations or range of it?
How is it not a counter? It involves focusing your mind. Sounds like something that can resist mind control

The range is enough to put Kyogre under hypnosis. And no, calm mind is not a counter to telepathy (because of pokemon mechanics). The only thing it does is raise your stats. Pokemon mechanics are a lot different than most other verse.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No one responded to my muddy water comment ;_;

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I thought you needed to look at Aizen in order to be caught under his spell. At least thats what i have been informed of when he did so to Ywach. If being in his presence is enough then whats the limitations or range of it?
How is it not a counter? It involves focusing your mind. Sounds like something that can resist mind control

The range is enough to put Kyogre under hypnosis. And no, calm mind is not a counter to telepathy (because of pokemon mechanics). The only thing it does is raise your stats. Pokemon mechanics are a lot different than most other verse.

Can I please get a specified range then? It'll make it easier to determine that

Your ignoring half of the description. It doesnt just raise your stats it does that by focusing ones inner mind and spirit. If your focusing or concentrating your mind then it should make TP harder to use on you.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Kyogre could always use Muddy Water. As a side effect, it could blind Aizen and/or reduce view of the sword. Kyogre wouldn't know that was the case, it would just be common sense to assume that would be the case. A bonus if you will.

It's possible but i believe Aizen would teleport if he saw a big pool of water coming towards him.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Can I please get a specified range then? It'll make it easier to determine that
Your ignoring half of the description. It doesnt just raise your stats it does that by focusing ones inner mind and spirit. If your focusing or concentrating your mind then it should make TP harder to use on you.

Around 100 meter range

Calm Mind has never cured confusion or sleep status nor it is ever implied that it does anything of the sort. Please show a proof that calm mind cures confusion, sleep or anything other status problem. You're trying to use other verse mechanic for pokemon which simply doesn't work. Pokemon has different standard for telepathy and status moves

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Can I please get a specified range then? It'll make it easier to determine that
Your ignoring half of the description. It doesnt just raise your stats it does that by focusing ones inner mind and spirit. If your focusing or concentrating your mind then it should make TP harder to use on you.

Around 100 meter range
Calm Mind has never cured confusion or sleep status nor it is ever implied that it does anything of the sort. Please show a proof that calm mind cures confusion, sleep or anything other status problem. You're trying to use other verse mechanic for pokemon which simply doesn't work. Pokemon has different standard for telepathy and status moves

100 meters.....hmm....for this fight is Kyogre under water? Or far away in the ocean? Or is Aizen just standing or floating right in front of him? Also if his mere presence can activate it at all, i dont see the point in this matchup....


If it doesnt cure mind hax then it should build resistance for it based on its description. I said it was unlikely that it could negate KS so my fault on that but i still think it should build up resistance. Also, can you further elaborate on "different standards"?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Here is all the uses of Sheer Col in the Anime. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sheer_Cold_(move)

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

100 meters.....hmm....for this fight is Kyogre under water? Or far away in the ocean? Or is Aizen just standing or floating right in front of him? Also if his mere presence can activate it at all, i dont see the point in this matchup....


If it doesnt cure mind hax then it should build resistance for it based on its description. I said it was unlikely that it could negate KS so my fault on that but i still think it should build up resistance. Also, can you further elaborate on "different standards"?

Ground type is immune to electric attacks in both game and anime, but that's a strictly pokemon verse mechanic. Same as how logias interact with each other in One Piece. Some verse have their exclusive mechanic and telepathy in pokemon is also exclusive with distinct rules. Kyogre must have certain moves to cure its status condition