Adventure Time. Piece by piece CRT

[Antvasima]

@Dargoo

Agreed. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Read_this_post]

Yeah. I personally watched adventure time as a kid and always saw Finn as a street to maybe wall level. I was pretty confused when I found he is tier 5 here.

I think I remember fin beating enemies who would be small building level with sheer size at least. Though I think it sometimes involves attacking a certain part of them iirc. I suppose it depends on how consistent it is amongst the other characters and if it's hax based or not.

If the other feats aren't accepted and there are only one or two legitimate tier 5 feats from the main cast then I do support a downgrade.

 

[RatherClueless]

Finn (imho) would be tier 8. He is by no means a high tier in his verse. Quite the opposite. He only ever wins due to immense amounts of PIS, when fighting stronger characters like the Lich.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Pretty sure the demon he slayed in the episode where his dad calls him a pansy in recordings would be around High 8-C to 8-B.

 

[RatherClueless]

He never defeated that demon or are you talking about the "evil monster"?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I meant the one eyed monster, not the blood dude, yes.

 

[RatherClueless]

Finn has currently class K lifting strength for hurling that thing. I honestly doubt it's that heavy though.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It probably is. Class K is suprisingly easy to get for giants like that.

But that's for another time. I agree that Finn was never shown or even really implied to be that powerful, and shouldn't scale with all the anti-feats.

 

[RatherClueless]

@ All the Nay-Sayers

If you have an issue with downgrading this verse, don't just swoop in, say "I disagree" and leave again. That's not helping anyone.

So I'll ask again to please drop some arguments so this can debated. If you are just going to come in and say "Nope" and that's it, then don't. It's not helpful and only hinders this thread.

Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

RatherClueless is correct. The statistics have been proven to be extremely exaggerated and unreliable. We need to start to revise the verse, preferably soon.

 

[Cropfist]

Downgrade to what levels?

 

[RatherClueless]

That's.... A different issue....

 

[Read_this_post]

What hasnt been fully agreed apon in the op?

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that we would initially downgrade them from tier 2 to tier 5? That would at least be a great improvement.

 

[RatherClueless]

Well yes. I was talking about the tier 5 stuff. The the tier 2 stuff would (for now) go back to tier 5.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Dopyt]

The void exists separately from the multiverse, so no.

That means they transced the multiverse which would get them higher

 

[RatherClueless]

That means they transced the multiverse which would get them higher

Wha-a-t...? No. It has no superiority nor transcendence. It's just not part of it. After all, the at verse is not High 2-A, but 2-A. One multiverse. There is more than enough space for a void.

 

[Read_this_post]

Why do so many people lately seem to think existing outside or before something means transcending it?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I was born before the creation of several nukes, and I am not part of neither them nor the nations creating them.

Kneel before my 7-B punches.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I see no problem with that line of reasoning!

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree with removing Tier 2 at the very least.

Tier 5 has its own issues, namely if the feat came from the Farmland crown, I don't think we have a proper time reference for when the world freeze happened, and even then I think it was a period of weeks/months prior to Finn/Jake returning to Farmland to deal with the Lich. That and I'm not entirely sure how the feat really scales to Finn/Jake as someone freezing the planet doesn't really translate well to someone puching/kicking each other.

And it wasn't Simon who froze the world either, it was Farmland Finn iirc. Since Simon was dead and all by the time Finn found him.

Also, why do we have a key for Orgalorg w/ the Catalyst Comet absorbed when he never actually accomplished this in canon?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Wasn't the story that once Simon died stopping the nuke and the crown itself inceased the planet in ice out of grief? Was a long time since I watched it.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I think it's because the time freeze is shown to be very quick and the time was assumed. Also it apparently scales to the Ice King who scales below Finn. I agree this reasoning is pretty shaky because it assumes the Ice King always exerts himself in the same way the crown did to freeze the world but he clearly does not. Otherwise he would freeze the world because that type of ability has planetary range.

No Simon didn't freeze the world, the crown did out of grief. It just melted way before Farmland Finn was born.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I agreed with Tier 2 being removed ages ago. Finn isn't Tier 2 in canon. He's Tier 2 in the comics.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dargoo

Would you be willing to organise some revisions based on the above discussion? I would appreciate the help, as Ultima Reality seemed to have lost interest when I asked him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree this reasoning is pretty shaky because it assumes the Ice King always exerts himself in the same way the crown did to freeze the world but he clearly does not. Otherwise he would freeze the world because that type of ability has planetary range.

To be fair, it's kind of a given that Ice King doesn't have full control of the crown or even competent with it in general, seeing as the full potential of the crown can change "the very nature of existence".

So the crown itself 'freezing the world out of grief for Simon' could very well likely be something Simon is incapable of doing himself.

@Ant

Sure. There's a lot of stuff to go over, and honestly I'd be surprised if anybody on the site is satisfied with the answers we get to given the nature of the series.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

The full potential for the crown is 2-A through likely chain reactions but isn't that only through wish magic? Wish Magic can harm existence but Ice Crown Finn harming existence seems extremely weird. It's likely because he had the Enchiridion which is extremely unpredictable and bearing in mind the Lich was also in that universe.

I don't agree with that it implies the Ice Crown was amped upon Simon's death or Simon's usage limits the Crown. It's more likely it's possible for the Ice King to exert himself in that way but he either doesn't know it or just doesn't. I mean looking at his character it makes this seem more possible.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dargoo

Okay. Thank you very much for the help.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The crown by nature is obviously stronger than what Simon can use it for... any look at his use of powers screams "not enough power to freeze the planet for centuries if not millenia".

 

[RatherClueless]

@Dargoo Great. If you need any help at all, you can ask me and I'll see what I can do.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I don't agree with that it implies the Ice Crown was amped upon Simon's death or Simon's usage limits the Crown. It's more likely it's possible for the Ice King to exert himself in that way but he either doesn't know it or just doesn't. I mean looking at his character it makes this seem more possible.

My point is "Ice King doesn't have full control of the crown even in its current state", which would mean that the crown doing something itself need not scale to him. Simon using the crown doesn't make it any less powerful, but he doesn't seem to have acess to anything near what the crown itself did in farmworld.

If anything, I can point to all the times Ice King exterts himself doing feats that are incredibly below freezing an entire planet (his fight with Flame Princess is a good example); as I've said power levels fluctuate based on the needs of the plot in Adventure Time incredibly often.

 

[Antvasima]

Power levels fluctuate based on the needs of the plot in Adventure Time incredibly often.

Exactly.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

After some thought I agree. It could be that the crown in the Farmworld is extremely more powerful than the crown in Prime AT world actually which would make sense since their powers differ so much. Because taking into account all the feats Simon has done and there are even times when he can't use the crown because he's used too much ice or exerted himself too much in one day and not even coming close to he moon freeze feat so yeah you're right.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is... not what is being said. The two Crown are equal, the crowns user's simply don't scale to it.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I just named a possiblity. Did you read fully what I said?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm just having a hard time coming up with what would be "consistent" for the main cast; Finn at his lowest showings isn't even at 9-B while you can go to pretty weird places with his highest showings.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Doesn't he fight giant monsters a lot? Maybe he could scale from that?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

He can scale from a lot of things, that's the problem, kind of.

He also has the aformentioned trouble breaking through entirely regular walls on a surprising number of occasions, such as when he's trapped by Fern, when he's stuck in the Hall of Egress, et cetera.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I think his most consistent would be when he's fighting monsters yes. He's fought Jake multiple times even whilst he's in a huge state and fought big monsters on various occasions.

I'm pretty sure those walls with Fern weren't regular walls iirc. And Hall of Egress I'm very unsure because that was kind of some abstract lesson episode not sure if it is consistent.