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Maybe you could do something like Atleast such and such and goes up to such and such
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Adventure Time. Piece by piece CRT
- Thread starter RatherClueless
- Start date
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It would take a while to calculate and compare all his feats to see which are consistent.
His highest could be Tier 5. If it's most consistent it would be somewhere around 7 and 8 probably.
His highest could be Tier 5. If it's most consistent it would be somewhere around 7 and 8 probably.
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You have a point with the Hall of Egress (although nothing is explicitly stated or shown that says that the walls are stronger than normal) although there isn't anything particularly unique about where Fern leaves him.
I do agree his monster fights could form a kind of consistent basis, though.
I do agree his monster fights could form a kind of consistent basis, though.
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so around tier 8 or 7?
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Probably. Ignoring scaling him to other characters for the time being, that's where his peak is at.
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ok.
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Yeah I guess. I think we should rule out fights with cosmic beings. Those are way too inconsistent. Like harming Hunson and The Lich.
What about the Grass Sword do we treat it has a higher tier than Finn himself?
What about the Grass Sword do we treat it has a higher tier than Finn himself?
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Well, not really? Since Fern is literally the Grass Sword + Finn Sword and Finn's stalemated him consistently.
I'd just cut out scaling to powerful mages/cosmic beings, since that makes his set of feats generally more consistent.
I'd just cut out scaling to powerful mages/cosmic beings, since that makes his set of feats generally more consistent.
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True.
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Well, he is at least 10x weaker than anything Jake ever did (not in giant form)
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That's sort of what I suggested.
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I wouldn't be opposed to the idea tbh.
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Hmmmm. That seems like a fine idea. Since his tier can vary from literally human level to 5-A at his most critical points in the same seaso. I guess it'd be based on the serverity of the situation and what the plot demands.
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At what point in time was Finn ever shown to be 5-A or comparable to someone 5-A
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He's fought cosmic beings like The Lich, Hunson Abaderr and Orgalorg whilst not directly comparable he has harmed them all and received blows from them.
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Finn fought Fern at least twice, the second time he killed him. Fern has stomped Jake, Susan Strong and held off Sweet P. Jake should be stronger than Charlie who has a 5-A feat and Sweet P killed The Lich. Not to mention he's survived blows from Lich Bubblegum and hurt Marceline as early as season 1.
Fern is literally the Grass Sword which killed Orgalorg. Finn is equal to Fern.
It doesn't matter that Finn never destroyed a planet by himself, he's comparable to characters with similar feats.
Fern is literally the Grass Sword which killed Orgalorg. Finn is equal to Fern.
It doesn't matter that Finn never destroyed a planet by himself, he's comparable to characters with similar feats.
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I should also mention the grass sword has harmed top tiers extremely consistently (cut Orgalorg apart, cut Liches arm off, crushed Buff Susan Who stomped Jake and Rattleballs).
Fern is literally that + Finn and Finn has matched him in combat and tanked hits from him several times (on the beach, the swamp, before he killed Fern and when he was the Green Knight.)
Fern is literally that + Finn and Finn has matched him in combat and tanked hits from him several times (on the beach, the swamp, before he killed Fern and when he was the Green Knight.)
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Yeah you guys are kinda trying to throe scaling out the window under the ssumption that it doesnt exist because Finn himself has never busted a planet with a punch. He has fought and severely injured numerous beings tht scale to tier 5 feats over the course of the show
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Again, this. There is no possible way to claim that Finn is consistently tier 5, that's just ignoring 99% of his showings.Dargoo Faust said:
The show is not consistent in powers, at all, ever.
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There are one continent level feat, two multi-level continent level feats, two Moon level feats, two small planet level feats, a planet level statement, two large planet level feats and tons of scaling between those feats. How much more consistent do we need to get here?
Edit: And there's like 3 Tier 2 statements, but I'm fine with calling those outliers honestly.
Edit: And there's like 3 Tier 2 statements, but I'm fine with calling those outliers honestly.
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The part where none of that is consistent. Going from tier 6 to top tier 5 is not consistent, and doesn't make the fact that there are tier 7 feats. And tier 8. And tier 9, too.
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If I had to make a comparison. Goku in DBZ has never busted planets none of the attacks he's tanked have shown to destroy planets (usually just raze mountains or islands) and the only straight up planet bust he got hit by was Cells and he completely died.
Yet we know Goku is Far above planet level cause of consistent scaling and feats.
Yet we know Goku is Far above planet level cause of consistent scaling and feats.
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Piccolo is the only member of the main cast to destroy anything more than a mountain. Clearly, Saiyan Saga Piccolo is the top of the heap.
It doesn't matter though. Of course there are more Tier 9 feats, because the show doesn't go into sci-fi plots very much. We still have a total of like 5 Tier 5 feats in the last few seasons of the show, which is way more than most series get. Not to mention they're supported by casual Tier 6 feats in the early seasons.
There's also Chatsberry probably creating a dimension that had planets. I forgot about that one.
It doesn't matter though. Of course there are more Tier 9 feats, because the show doesn't go into sci-fi plots very much. We still have a total of like 5 Tier 5 feats in the last few seasons of the show, which is way more than most series get. Not to mention they're supported by casual Tier 6 feats in the early seasons.
There's also Chatsberry probably creating a dimension that had planets. I forgot about that one.
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"Finn fought Fern at least twice, the second time he killed him. Fern has stomped Jake, Susan Strong and held off Sweet P. Jake should be stronger than Charlie who has a 5-A."
1. The Chartlie feat has been covered a lot in this thread and iirc it was deemed as "no, noone scales to charlie"
2. Why are any of the ppl you listed 5-A?
"Fern is literally the Grass Sword which killed Orgalorg"
An incredibly weakened version that took like 10 minutes to move a distance of maybe 20 meters. Orgalorg even in his prime has nothing but the title of "destroyer of worlds"
I should also mention the grass sword has harmed top tiers extremely consistently (cut Orgalorg apart, cut Liches arm off, crushed Buff Susan Who stomped Jake and Rattleballs).
Orgalorg I have already covered. The Lich has been stated to be immune to many weapons. If you have the right weapon however, you can harm the Lich. The Lich has 0 reasons to be 5-A. The guy literally tries to harness the power of the earth to get back to his former glory to destroy the earth. Kinda pointless if he would be 5-A as is.
Neither Susan, Jake nor Rattleballs have a reason to be 5-A.
"Finn has matched him in combat and tanked hits from him several times"
Only his robo arm. He is utterly outmatched otherwise.
"There are one continent level feat, two multi-level continent level feats, two Moon level feats, two small planet level feats, a planet level statement, two large planet level feats and tons of scaling between those feats. How much more consistent do we need to get here?"
Most of them are badly made, dont scale to Finn (or the majority of the cast) or dont scale at all.
"Not to mention they're supported by casual Tier 6 feats in the early seasons."
Most of them assume outlandish numbers and even then they dont scale to characters like Finn since he never wins against any of these characters in a fair fight. For example the IK never loses to him unless his crown is kicked of (excluding the pilot episode)
"There's also Chatsberry probably creating a dimension that had planets"
The guy is dead and only exists within PBs dreams. If anything that key is useless and should be removed.
Edit: @Doggo Are you Darkanine?
1. The Chartlie feat has been covered a lot in this thread and iirc it was deemed as "no, noone scales to charlie"
2. Why are any of the ppl you listed 5-A?
"Fern is literally the Grass Sword which killed Orgalorg"
An incredibly weakened version that took like 10 minutes to move a distance of maybe 20 meters. Orgalorg even in his prime has nothing but the title of "destroyer of worlds"
I should also mention the grass sword has harmed top tiers extremely consistently (cut Orgalorg apart, cut Liches arm off, crushed Buff Susan Who stomped Jake and Rattleballs).
Orgalorg I have already covered. The Lich has been stated to be immune to many weapons. If you have the right weapon however, you can harm the Lich. The Lich has 0 reasons to be 5-A. The guy literally tries to harness the power of the earth to get back to his former glory to destroy the earth. Kinda pointless if he would be 5-A as is.
Neither Susan, Jake nor Rattleballs have a reason to be 5-A.
"Finn has matched him in combat and tanked hits from him several times"
Only his robo arm. He is utterly outmatched otherwise.
"There are one continent level feat, two multi-level continent level feats, two Moon level feats, two small planet level feats, a planet level statement, two large planet level feats and tons of scaling between those feats. How much more consistent do we need to get here?"
Most of them are badly made, dont scale to Finn (or the majority of the cast) or dont scale at all.
"Not to mention they're supported by casual Tier 6 feats in the early seasons."
Most of them assume outlandish numbers and even then they dont scale to characters like Finn since he never wins against any of these characters in a fair fight. For example the IK never loses to him unless his crown is kicked of (excluding the pilot episode)
"There's also Chatsberry probably creating a dimension that had planets"
The guy is dead and only exists within PBs dreams. If anything that key is useless and should be removed.
Edit: @Doggo Are you Darkanine?
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"Edit: And there's like 3 Tier 2 statements, but I'm fine with calling those outliers honestly."
I totally missed this one.
Well, I know the one about the commet (which isnt a tier 2 statement btw, but whatevs), but what are the other 2 (which you could at least somewhat scale to Finn and the rest of the main cast)?
I totally missed this one.
Well, I know the one about the commet (which isnt a tier 2 statement btw, but whatevs), but what are the other 2 (which you could at least somewhat scale to Finn and the rest of the main cast)?
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So basically the debate that Orgalorg, Grass Sword, Hunson and the Lich being 5-A restarts.
How do we know the Orgalorg was weakened in comparison to Pre-Crushed. Orgalorg doesn't only have that title. He has a claiming statement of destroying worlds in his little monologue to Finn and he scales to Hunson and The Lich.
The Lich's durability isn't negged the instant Finn gets a special weapon better than the usual. Don't know where this comes from. So harming the Lich would scale to Finn's AP. Also AP and destructive capacity are very different which has been shown with the DB examples.
Finn does scale to Fern they literally fought and were relatively equal for a time and Finn used both arms if his body wasn't a match for Fern's AP he would have been beaten extremely quickly. Fern did outmatch him near the end of their fight but that doesn't mean Finnn doesn't scale, Finn's robo arm killed Fern.
Also Dreams in AT are actual realms I think. I had a few scans for that.
How do we know the Orgalorg was weakened in comparison to Pre-Crushed. Orgalorg doesn't only have that title. He has a claiming statement of destroying worlds in his little monologue to Finn and he scales to Hunson and The Lich.
The Lich's durability isn't negged the instant Finn gets a special weapon better than the usual. Don't know where this comes from. So harming the Lich would scale to Finn's AP. Also AP and destructive capacity are very different which has been shown with the DB examples.
Finn does scale to Fern they literally fought and were relatively equal for a time and Finn used both arms if his body wasn't a match for Fern's AP he would have been beaten extremely quickly. Fern did outmatch him near the end of their fight but that doesn't mean Finnn doesn't scale, Finn's robo arm killed Fern.
Also Dreams in AT are actual realms I think. I had a few scans for that.
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" He has a claiming statement of destroying worlds in his little monologue to Finn and he scales to Hunson and The Lich."
His best feat is still throwing a large rock. It was also in the context of his open door philosophy and how he is going to absorb the commet. Why are the Lich and Hunson tier 5?
"How do we know the Orgalorg was weakened in comparison to Pre-Crushed"
I literally said why.
"The Lich's durability isn't negged the instant Finn gets a special weapon more than the usual. Don't know where this comes from. So harming the Lich would scale to Finn's AP. Also AP and destructive capacity are very different which has been shown with the DB examples."
Why do I think that? Where does that come from? Idk, PBs and Finns statements as well as in verse showings? The Lich has 0 durability feats. Atually, other than fighting Finn and jake the Lich doesnt have any physical feats at all...
I never said AP = DC. I said its dumb for the Lich to absorb earths energy to have the power to destroy earth when he already is 5-A...
"Finn does scale to Fern they literally fought and were relatively equal for a time and Finn used both arms if his body wasn't a match for Fern's AP he would have been beaten extremely quickly."
Fern didnt hit once. If he did, Finn would have died.
"Also Dreams in AT are actual realms I think. I had a few scans for that."
Only if the someone like the cosmic owl is within them. Also, by that logic everyone in AT is low 2-C for creating a universe whenever they sleep...
His best feat is still throwing a large rock. It was also in the context of his open door philosophy and how he is going to absorb the commet. Why are the Lich and Hunson tier 5?
"How do we know the Orgalorg was weakened in comparison to Pre-Crushed"
I literally said why.
"The Lich's durability isn't negged the instant Finn gets a special weapon more than the usual. Don't know where this comes from. So harming the Lich would scale to Finn's AP. Also AP and destructive capacity are very different which has been shown with the DB examples."
Why do I think that? Where does that come from? Idk, PBs and Finns statements as well as in verse showings? The Lich has 0 durability feats. Atually, other than fighting Finn and jake the Lich doesnt have any physical feats at all...
I never said AP = DC. I said its dumb for the Lich to absorb earths energy to have the power to destroy earth when he already is 5-A...
"Finn does scale to Fern they literally fought and were relatively equal for a time and Finn used both arms if his body wasn't a match for Fern's AP he would have been beaten extremely quickly."
Fern didnt hit once. If he did, Finn would have died.
"Also Dreams in AT are actual realms I think. I had a few scans for that."
Only if the someone like the cosmic owl is within them. Also, by that logic everyone in AT is low 2-C for creating a universe whenever they sleep...
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1. Always uses robo arm (the arm he wields the sword with)Js250476 said:
2. Dodges most attack
3. Even if he blocks he uses both arms struggleing while Fern casually pushes him back with one...
Edit: 4. He uses his magic demon sword which is supposed to be his strongets sword yet.
Edit: Edit: On top of that, what does it matter? Neither of them are tier 5
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Also, just because a verse has a lot of high tier feats, that doesn't mean everything and everyone scales. In the case of AT this went so far that straight up everyone has the same Tier.
"Well, Batman has fought Superman a couple of times and didn't get completely stomped right away. I mean sure, he used a robo suit, but still... That should scale. He is also an important and usefull member of the league. They have a bunch of tier 4/5 characters. The verse also has a lot of tier 1 and 2 stuff and even some casual tier 6 and 7 things, so I feel like a tier 5 Batman is reasonable."
The issue with that sort of reasoning should be plain to see. Finn is the Batman of his verse. Weak but still somehow usefull.
"Well, Batman has fought Superman a couple of times and didn't get completely stomped right away. I mean sure, he used a robo suit, but still... That should scale. He is also an important and usefull member of the league. They have a bunch of tier 4/5 characters. The verse also has a lot of tier 1 and 2 stuff and even some casual tier 6 and 7 things, so I feel like a tier 5 Batman is reasonable."
The issue with that sort of reasoning should be plain to see. Finn is the Batman of his verse. Weak but still somehow usefull.
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That's why we propose a variable tier.
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I don't mind that. I just disagree with him being tier 5 even at his best.
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Ok lets agree to disagree for now til we get this CRT done.
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That context doesn't matter. He didn't say I'm going to absorb the comet and then destroy planets. He was referring to the past when he said it. The Lich killed with his fire Guardians who scale above the Nameless Alien. Hunson scales to The Lich and Orgalorg and has statements of being able to destroy Ooo completely in the encyclopedia.
Ok and? He was in space and had decreased mobility. He was just propelling himself.
Weapons being able to harm the Lich doesn't mean it negates durability I don't think it's ever been stated to bypass his durability and he literally broke the weapon with one hand. The Lich just scales to Hunson and Orgalorg. That isn't really dumb considering he wouldn't have the DC to destroy earth so using the well of power to do it in some way would make sense.
Finn scales to Fern. Even in your own points above.
No it was more like the realms already existed anyway. I'll need to look at that again. Anyway even if that was the case dreaming doesn't scale to striking strength or durability and it's already been established that human level characters dream other dimensions.
Ok and? He was in space and had decreased mobility. He was just propelling himself.
Weapons being able to harm the Lich doesn't mean it negates durability I don't think it's ever been stated to bypass his durability and he literally broke the weapon with one hand. The Lich just scales to Hunson and Orgalorg. That isn't really dumb considering he wouldn't have the DC to destroy earth so using the well of power to do it in some way would make sense.
Finn scales to Fern. Even in your own points above.
No it was more like the realms already existed anyway. I'll need to look at that again. Anyway even if that was the case dreaming doesn't scale to striking strength or durability and it's already been established that human level characters dream other dimensions.
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That Batman example falls apart because with his suit he actually is comparable to the high tier league members and literally fought Darkseid in one of his better suits but anyway...
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I gotta say weapons working on a character =/= character is specifically weak to said weapon it just means that weapon is strong enough to overcome the durability of a character. And you don't assume it specifically bypasses there durability unless it's explicitly shown like say Samurai Jacks sword vs Aku or the Master Sword vs Ganon.
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The argument that Finn only matched Fern because he had his cybernetic arm sorta falls apart when we see Jake blow the guy back and Finn has fought evenly with Jake in the past.
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It's kind of a no-brainer that Finn scales to Fern, no offense.
What makes this complicated is that nothing Finn shows in the series barring his interactions with Fern even remotely imply that he's Tier 5.
My personal take on this is that The Grass Sword was made to originally be on-par with the gods of the series because much of the sword's future/potential was still left to mystery; notice how all of these feats (The Lich, Orgalorg, Susan, The Cosmic Prisoners Martin hitchikes with) are prior to the creation of Fern. And notice how it accomplishes things that astound Finn; and seem to be far beyond him at that time.
When Fern became, well, Fern, he seemed to be lowered to the level of Finn, as having a pseudo-antagonist who can literally kill the globs themselves would be kind of counter-productive to the story they're trying to tell. I'd seriously consider saying Fern, despite his creation logically making him sound as/more powerful than the grass sword, is severely nerfed from it due to how he's written.
This is just a theory, though, the bulk of my argument is that "it's inconsistent".
What makes this complicated is that nothing Finn shows in the series barring his interactions with Fern even remotely imply that he's Tier 5.
My personal take on this is that The Grass Sword was made to originally be on-par with the gods of the series because much of the sword's future/potential was still left to mystery; notice how all of these feats (The Lich, Orgalorg, Susan, The Cosmic Prisoners Martin hitchikes with) are prior to the creation of Fern. And notice how it accomplishes things that astound Finn; and seem to be far beyond him at that time.
When Fern became, well, Fern, he seemed to be lowered to the level of Finn, as having a pseudo-antagonist who can literally kill the globs themselves would be kind of counter-productive to the story they're trying to tell. I'd seriously consider saying Fern, despite his creation logically making him sound as/more powerful than the grass sword, is severely nerfed from it due to how he's written.
This is just a theory, though, the bulk of my argument is that "it's inconsistent".
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"He was referring to the past when he said it."
Even if so, at the time he was so weak he barely even got to the comet. To top it all of, AP is not the same as durability, so unless you know how he destroyed worlds, this hardly counts (especially seeing how he gets crushed by earths gravity)
"The Lich killed with his fire Guardians who scale above the Nameless Alien. Hunson scales to The Lich and Orgalorg and has statements of being able to destroy Ooo completely in the encyclopedia."
1. That first one is death manip so it doesnt scale.
2. If thats the case you cant say "Orgalorg is tier 5 because he scales to Hunson"...
3.I rly need to get that encyclopedia it seems Make me immortal and give me an unbreakable shovel and I'll move you a continenet. Doesnt mean I am tier 6.
"Weapons being able to harm the Lich doesn't mean it negates durability I don't think it's ever been stated to bypass his durability and he literally broke the weapon with one hand. The Lich just scales to Hunson and Orgalorg."
And none of them have durability feats outside of fighting some characters of the main cast (mostly Finn and Jake). Oh no wait, Orgalorg does. He got crushed by earths gravity... Also the Lich is indead weak to rly likeing someone.
"Finn scales to Fern. Even in your own points above."
"That Batman example falls apart because with his suit he actually is comparable to the high tier league members and literally fought Darkseid in one of his better suits but anyway..."
I was agruing that physical Finn/Batman don't scale. Finn would get bisected if it wasnt for his robo arm and his sword. Fern can take Finns blows pretty much anywhere.
"The argument that Finn only matched Fern because he had his cybernetic arm sorta falls apart when we see Jake blow the guy back and Finn has fought evenly with Jake in the past."
Jake actually states that he is at least 10x stronger than Finn and even that seems way too low if you ask me. Also, the full power grass sword > Jake suit Finn, so I honestly dont get this argument at all.
"When Fern became, well, Fern, he seemed to be lowered to the level of Finn"
I disagree with that one, actually. Peppermint buttler stated that Finns new sword > the grass sword. How and in what way? Does it give some sort of skill amp like the grass sword? Who knows! Its just supposed to be better.
Even if so, at the time he was so weak he barely even got to the comet. To top it all of, AP is not the same as durability, so unless you know how he destroyed worlds, this hardly counts (especially seeing how he gets crushed by earths gravity)
"The Lich killed with his fire Guardians who scale above the Nameless Alien. Hunson scales to The Lich and Orgalorg and has statements of being able to destroy Ooo completely in the encyclopedia."
1. That first one is death manip so it doesnt scale.
2. If thats the case you cant say "Orgalorg is tier 5 because he scales to Hunson"...
3.
"Weapons being able to harm the Lich doesn't mean it negates durability I don't think it's ever been stated to bypass his durability and he literally broke the weapon with one hand. The Lich just scales to Hunson and Orgalorg."
And none of them have durability feats outside of fighting some characters of the main cast (mostly Finn and Jake). Oh no wait, Orgalorg does. He got crushed by earths gravity... Also the Lich is indead weak to rly likeing someone.
"Finn scales to Fern. Even in your own points above."
"That Batman example falls apart because with his suit he actually is comparable to the high tier league members and literally fought Darkseid in one of his better suits but anyway..."
I was agruing that physical Finn/Batman don't scale. Finn would get bisected if it wasnt for his robo arm and his sword. Fern can take Finns blows pretty much anywhere.
"The argument that Finn only matched Fern because he had his cybernetic arm sorta falls apart when we see Jake blow the guy back and Finn has fought evenly with Jake in the past."
Jake actually states that he is at least 10x stronger than Finn and even that seems way too low if you ask me. Also, the full power grass sword > Jake suit Finn, so I honestly dont get this argument at all.
"When Fern became, well, Fern, he seemed to be lowered to the level of Finn"
I disagree with that one, actually. Peppermint buttler stated that Finns new sword > the grass sword. How and in what way? Does it give some sort of skill amp like the grass sword? Who knows! Its just supposed to be better.
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