Adhesivity should be Wall Crawling

[Antvasima]

So should we change the title to surface scaling or keep it as it is?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

If the ability is meant purely for wall crawling type activities, its better to change its title. However, a separate page for Glue/Stickyness Manipulation needs to be created in that case. Also, I'd imagine a bit of work would be required, fixing the links of profiles linked to it.

OR

You can simply expand the definition of Adhesivity to include sticky substances, which isn't technically wrong from an English standpoint. The amount of work needed for this is astronomically lesser than the above alternative.

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of you think about the second option?

 

[Andytrenom]

Anyone can read the page and see for themselves that the ability itself had nothing to do with manipulating sticky substances, not anymore than something like telekinesis has to do with flight (They are possible methods of achieving the power but that's it.)

Let's look at what the actual problems here are and fix them, an ability being badly named and not being defined perfectly. Let's not bring up a completely unrelated matter of getting a new power featured, and pretend the ability being named the way it is makes the unrelated matter in any way relevant to the actual discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Andy makes sense.

 

[GyroNutz]

I honestly don't see the problem with changing our definition of adhesivity to not only encompass more powers but for better accuracy in general. Wall crawling is, after all, a subset of (actual) adhesivity.

It's really just killing two birds with one stone.

 

[Antvasima]

@Andy

So what do you suggest as a solution?

 

[Andytrenom]

I honestly don't see the problem with changing our definition of adhesivity to not only encompass more powers but for better accuracy in general. Wall crawling is, after all, a subset of (actual) adhesivity.

It's really just killing two birds with one stone.

I don't think they are closely tied enough to be considered the same power even if that's how powerlisting treats it.

Adhesivity/Surface Scaling will very often not even involve the use of actual adhesives and its defining characteristic is allowing someone to move along walls and ceilings without falling.

The new power imo should just focus on manipulation of substances that are classified as adhesives.

No need to lump two different powers together that have vastly different principles and applications just because they are both related to the general concept of adhesivity.

 

[Andytrenom]

Here's what I just managed to whip up in the last hour

Surface Scaling is the ability to move along walls and similar surfaces without the risk of falling from gravity. This could involve a variety of different methods ranging from creating attraction between a part of one's body and the surface to making use of spiked footwork. What's important is that the user be granted a free range of motion across all conventional walls and ceilings without needing to significantly alter the wall or ceiling itself or relying on specific features present on them that wouldn't be found in smooth surfaces.

It should be kept in mind that cases of moving along surfaces through sheer momentum or by damaging the walls should not be classified as this ability as they are both simply common consequences of Superhuman Speed and Superhuman strength respectively rather than being distinct power on their own.

Try to see if it needs work. And I do meant it when I say that. I don't want this issue to pop up again immediately after this thread is done with.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it seems fine, but somebody preferably needs to update all of the links to the page after it has been renamed.

 

[Eficiente]

I honestly don't like the idea of restricting this for those with Superhuman Speed and Superhuman strength, just because someone has those powers doesn't mean they have shown to do that or that they are able to do so. The idea of calling it Surface Scaling is not having those restrictions, the name itself doesn't indicate that this cases should not apply. As such it will generate confusion for those thinking that those cases are Surface Scaling.

 

[AguilaR101]

Surface scaling being exclusive to those who can do it without disturbing the floor/walls or utilizing speed doesn't look good to me, just because you have super strength and speed doesn't mean you can automatically cling to walls and thus people who have the ability need to have it pointed out in their abilities section, otherwise we might as well just infer anyone with such stats can do it.

 

[Eficiente]

If we also take into consideration users who want more pages for real life powers exclude characters who can scale in surfaces via speed/strength will just generate more problems in the future.

 

[Antvasima]

Personally I am leaning towards agreeing with Andy that only characters who have this ability as an actual separate power should be included.

 

[Andytrenom]

My problem here is that running up walls via speed or climbing it via deforming part of it doen't seem like a proper power that derives from their preexisting abilities but instead a feat they perform via having a certain level of speed or strength.

It would be like giving someone Vibration manipulation for hitting a structure hard enough or matter manipulation for hitting a human with 4-C energy

That said surface scaling through speed is something I can accept if people really feel it's needed. Surface scaling through creating cracks and cavities in the wall is out of the question however.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so should the page be updated or not, and if so, is somebody willing to update all of the links to it?

 

[Andytrenom]

I do think it should be updated, but I want to wait for more input regarding the new Definition.

I'm not quite happy with how it reads in its current state.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm in support of changing the page in the way Andy described. I have it on quite a few characters that don't have it due to sticky substances or superhuman speed/strength, so the other suggestions aren't very suitable.

@Ant Since this seems like a simple word replacement, would it be possible to use Promestein's bot to update the links?

 

[Andytrenom]

Should I ask Reppuzan for input? Tho He hasn't been very active lately.

 

[Antvasima]

@Andy

You can ask Reppuzan if you wish, yes.

@Agnaa

I don't know if Promestein's bot is suitable for handling these types of comparatively minor changes, or if it has to sift through several thousand pages to find and replace some dozen links.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask her about it though. Here are all the pages that would need to be updated:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index....sHere&limit=500&target=Adhesivity&namespace=0

 

[Antvasima]

Promestein was able to let her bot handle it.

Is somebody willing to rewrite the page in question?

 

[Agnaa]

Andy rewrote it but wants more eyes on it before it's used.

Here's what I just managed to whip up in the last hour

Surface Scaling is the ability to move along walls and similar surfaces without the risk of falling from gravity. This could involve a variety of different methods ranging from creating attraction between a part of one's body and the surface to making use of spiked footwork. What's important is that the user be granted a free range of motion across all conventional walls and ceilings without needing to significantly alter the wall or ceiling itself or relying on specific features present on them that wouldn't be found in smooth surfaces.

It should be kept in mind that cases of moving along surfaces through sheer momentum or by damaging the walls should not be classified as this ability as they are both simply common consequences of Superhuman Speed and Superhuman strength respectively rather than being a distinct power on their own.

edited to fix a grammar mistake

 

[Antvasima]

I think that seems fine to apply.

 

[Crzer07]

I agree stuff like wall crawling, wall running, wall jumping and adhesive manipulation are better to have their own pages.

 

[Antvasima]

We are not the Superpower wiki, and generally prefer to avoid more limited sub-category powers pages.

 

[AguilaR101]

Surface scaling should apply to all forms of sticking to walls regardless of method, doesn't matter if one character needs to claw itself to a wall, it achieves the same thing with the only difference being the modification of the surface he is sticking to, it's far Better to include them all in one page and divide them by types instead of excluding one and having to make multiple pages for what is essentially the same thing.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Can I ask why we even have spin dash as an ability? Is it not just a technique?

It feels awkward and weird, I agree with Antvasima on not listing every single sub-power within fiction and that it's best reserved for the Superpower wiki.

 

[Antoniofer]

Spin Dash was already removed.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Late to the punch, sorry.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to rewrite the page?

 

[Andytrenom]

@Aguila That's assuming they should get pages. And no it absolutely matters what the method used for sticking to the wall was, achieving the same result as power does not mean they should have the power regardless of context.

If you shatter a boulder into small pieces , that achieves the same effect as Deconstruction, if you punch a building with such force that it trembles, that achieves the same effect as Vibration Manipulation, If you create a fire and it lights up the surrounding area that achieves the same effect as Light Manipulation. The list goes on and on.Should they all be considered as their corresponding power?

Being able to replicate the effect of a power using any random method is not the same thing as possessing a power itself.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to rewrite the page?

^

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

I would still appreciate if somebody could help out with this.

 

[Andytrenom]

Since there doesn't seem to be much discussion going on anymore, would it be fine if carried on with the rewrite now?

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine, yes, but somebody preferably still neeeds to update all of the links to the old page afterwards.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Couldn't we use a redirect for all the profiles that linked under a different display, and use a bit to change all the profiles that are under the main display?

 

[Andytrenom]

I made the changes I could

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Surface_Scaling?oldid=4350257

But yeah, the work of renaming the links is still left.