Adding note for Acausality type 5

[Delta333]

People said that conceptual hax type 1 can bypass acausal type 5.Personally I don't really understand why can that logic be true but since it has been used in many matches I think making a note (with explanation) under acausality type 5 section is needed,so that new members will know some ways to counter acausal type 5

 

[PrinceofPein]

Or hack the type 5, type 5 is mainly inverse mechanism

 

[QuasiYuri]

Yeeting type 5 or just acknowledging that type 1 doesn't allow you to bypass it would be more logic.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I remember a discussion on thus and that Type 1 Concepts was agreed (I remember sources in the thread being posted) were agreed to transcend the causality and be on the same level as a type 5 acasual.

But I agree a note section would be helpful

Acausality in general needs revised fot all types imo

 

[Orioreeem]

A note for now would be fine until someone revises type 5 acausality.

 

[Rez]

This will require more staff opinion. For now I am agreeing with Yuri's idea of making it so type 1 can't affect type 5 acausality

 

[QuasiYuri]

I remember a discussion on thus and that Type 1 Concepts was agreed (I remember sources in the thread being posted) were agreed to transcend the causality and be on the same level as a type 5 acasual.

Problem is that it was before CM got changed.

 

[Orioreeem]

Does having a higher dimensional power allow you to interact with type 5?

 

[Sevil Natas]

the way we give type 5 is just weird, according to the page itself you need to trancend causality in order to get it,however causality is bound by time, without time there cant be cause & affect yet for some reason we dont give people who trancend time type 5,
from the way type 1 Concepts work they completely exist outside the aspects of reality including time and causality, you cant have type 1 concepts bound by a casual system, because in that way affecting the reality's causality would also affect the concept, which would contradict its definition

 

[Bernkastelll]

the way we give type 5 is just weird, according to the page itself you need to trancend causality in order to get it,however causality is bound by time, without time there cant be cause & affect yet for some reason we dont give people who trancend time type 5,
from the way type 1 Concepts work they completely exist outside the aspects of reality including time and causality, you cant have type 1 concepts bound by a casual system, because in that way affecting the reality's causality would also affect the concept, which would contradict its definition

People who indeed transcend time in a sense of being higher dimensional than it should indeed have acausality 5



Anyways, I dont see why Concept 1 allows to bypass Acausality

 

[PrinceofPein]

I don't see the need for type 5 it is in verse mechanics, if a 20D is stated to be unbound by 19D verse casualty, it just means transcendence nothing more but that is type 5 here it is really not necessary

 

[QuasiYuri]

At best you could just turn it into type 4 and call it a day.

The whole "you can't interact with acausals" isn't even common or anything to begin with.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Type 4 is about different systems and levels of causality. For example 5D causal system > 4D causal system. (Random an easy example)

Type 5 is complete transcendence over all systems and levels of causality. The entire concept; the whole darn thing not just a singular part of it.

I made a thread once about how confusing the wording is to new people

Also, Type 3 isn't acausality and Type 2 is just Type 4

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

and Type 2 is just Type 4

Not really. Type 4s still have a past and future.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Not really. Type 4s still have a past and future.

Not always.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yes. If they happen to have both Type 2 and 4, then sure, but Type 4 by itself should never grant the user a lack of past/future

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I'm not in a good spot post my reasoning why nor is this the thread for it lol. At work atm and on my phone

 

[Sevil Natas]

Type 4 is about different systems and levels of causality. For example 5D causal system > 4D causal system. (Random an easy example)

Type 5 is complete transcendence over all systems and levels of causality. The entire concept; the whole darn thing not just a singular part of it.

I made a thread once about how confusing the wording is to new people

Also, Type 3 isn't acausality and Type 2 is just Type 4

okay, but trancending time is still type 5, without time you cant have any system of causality, if time is 0 then how could a cause b ? there's no time for it to cause it, so its just pointless

 

[Everything12]

Acausality 5 is meant to be for beings who are stated to transcend causality and have feats that it gives the whole immune to change because they are outside Cause and Effect thing, though I do admit some users and staff didn't get the memo. Basically you can be stated to Transcend Time as much as you want, but pretty much no fiction gives it the feats to gain Type 5.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

okay, but trancending time is still type 5, without time you cant have any system of causality, if time is 0 then how could a cause b ? there's no time for it to cause it, so its just pointless

That would still be transcending a singular level of causality. When there is an unquantifiably higher amount of levels above it.

I don't disagree with what your saying as I brought it up before.

Some verses only have 1 causal system

But not all staff like the idea that Time is Causality or intricately linked to Time.

Though it's also as what Everything12 said anti-feats need to be considered or time and causality are treated as separate

 

[DragonLord]

I’ve only been able to understand Type 1 honestly

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Problem is that it was before CM got changed.

I just realized something. For clarity I was referring to the old type 2 before the most recent revisions.

 

[Sevil Natas]

I just realized something. For clarity I was referring to the old type 2 before the most recent revisions.

thats is the same as the new type 1, the old CM1 and CM2 got merged, afaik they didnt change anything about them

 

[QuasiYuri]

thats is the same as the new type 1, the old CM1 and CM2 got merged, afaik they didnt change anything about them

That is factually wrong.

 

[Delta333]

So does new CM type 1 bypass acausal type 5?

 

[QuasiYuri]

No reason to

 

[Sevil Natas]

No reason to

if type 1 concepts are bound by the concept of casuality wouldnt that directly contradict their description on the wiki? as in "the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept." part

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Type 5 acausality beings are supposed to be transcendent to all levels of causal system that no reality can virtually interact with them, in layman's terms, they are unbound by reality. Simply transcending conventional causal system while there are still higher levels of said system is type 4 at most. Type 1 concepts are capable to bypass it, for a reason that they are unbound by reality as well, which they also needs no causal system to be regulated.

A very similar case is Void Manipulation is able to manipulate a type 1 NEP (assuming they have the same levels of potent).

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

thats is the same as the new type 1, the old CM1 and CM2 got merged, afaik they didnt change anything about them

I am saying the old Type 2 (the new type 1) platonic concepts were agrees upon to transcend all causality and causal systems.. so they exist at the same baseline level.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I am saying the old Type 2 (the new type 1) platonic concepts were agrees upon to transcend all causality and causal systems.. so they exist at the same baseline level.

Current doesn't transcend anything tho.

 

[QuasiYuri]

It's really the same as saying someone who can move in a timeless place can beat the shit outta type 5.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Concept type 1 currently are just concepts that doesnt relies on the things that it governs, such as the concept of fire doesnt needing the existence of fire to still exist, as the concept of fire is something that should exist before and even after the existence of fire (i guess something like that)

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

It's really the same as saying someone who can move in a timeless place can beat the shit outta type 5.

Yo what?

That's false equivalence, timeless void ain't necessarily be unbounded by reality at all levels.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Yo what?

That's false equivalence, timeless void ain't necessarily be unbounded by reality at all levels.

You just need to be independent to be CM1

A dude being still fine after the end of reality meets the same requirement you consider as enough to affect type 5.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

You just need to be independent to be CM1

A dude being still fine after the end of reality meets the same requirement you consider as enough to affect type 5.

You're saying that our standards for type 1 concepts now is that they aren't necessarily being unbound by reality?

 

[Antvasima]

@QuasiYuri @Everything12

What are the conclusions here?

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

After few chats with RM97 I changed my mind, he gave a good analogy that the current type 1 concepts standards on this site are just like type 2 concepts with type 4 acausality, that they are not necessarily have to be unbound by reality at all levels to begin with.

I don't think CM1 is superior to CM2 with this new standards, potent-wise.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Current doesn't transcend anything tho.

Ah.. that I didn't know changed..

By (new type 1) I mean the now current type 1*

 

[QuasiYuri]

I don't think CM1 is superior to CM2 with this new standards, potent-wise.

Well, that's not really wrong.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Type 1 and 2 concepts were merged with the revision. That's just what happened. You'd have to have never read both the actual page itself or the thread that revised it to believe otherwise.

Also, acausality type 5 is very much a thing in fiction. Ever heard of Destiny, TES, the Cthulhu Mythos, or any number of other verses? Type 4 is just not a good explanation for the sheer degree of acausality present in these characters, plain and simple.

As for the OP. the idea is that the concepts themselves, type 1 or old type 2 for clarification, are acausal, being "outside" and "above" the forms of such things we experience due to their nature.