Ace Ukiyo Vs Ayanokoji Kiyotaka: The Genius And The Cunning Fox

[XxZetsuxX]

It’s not fear resistence it’s just dude doesn’t get scared easily : p

I know, But he will still get stunned for as long as he keeps looking at Koji's eyes

 

[BERRIES555]

Well yeah, but it’s through fear correct? Ace would be brave enough to just power through it. Like, I personally don’t see how the fear Hax would effect someone who’s naturally fearless

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Well yeah, but it’s through fear correct? Ace would be brave enough to just power through it. Like, I personally don’t see how the fear Hax would effect someone who’s naturally fearless

We can't assume he can resist supernatural fear hax when he never showed it and just because he is fearless

If his opponents don't have fear hax or at least didn't show using it on Ace then we can't assume he resists though, That would be purely assumptions ;-;

 

[BERRIES555]

I mean like, Ace is someone who once had no powers, no brain, and no strength and still thought it was a good idea to fight someone after he blew up a planet. Like, Ace would likely feel fear, but that never stopped him from fighting

 

[Hiiilt]

ace isn't resisting ayano's fear hax but he should be able to keep fighting even though he is feeling fear due to his supernatural willpower

what can ace do against ayano's analytical prediction?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean like, Ace is someone who once had no powers, no brain, and no strength and still thought it was a good idea to fight someone after he blew up a planet. Like, Ace would likely feel fear, but that never stopped him from fighting

I see

ace isn't resisting ayano's fear hax but he should be able to keep fighting even though he is feeling fear due to his supernatural willpower

I thought his SW was for something else?

what can ace do against ayano's analytical prediction?

For now, I don't think he can do anything

 

[Shadowslash125]

A few things to keep in mind is that his supernatural willpower may help him immensely against Koji's pressure points should they land. While whether he can tank his pp via willpower is debatable (leaning towards a no), SBA states that incap has to last an hour, meaning that with his willpower, he might be able to wake up earlier. Probably helps more if Koji is decking on him while he is knocked out, since he's going to be able to tank it via willpower. Should he wake up (or even pretend to be knocked in the first place), his empowerment is going to kick in, giving him a boost.

However, blindsiding him completely will not be easy, as BERRIES has said, as even in his civilian form he was able to dodge a punch from his back when he didn't notice it, and even caught one after dodging a few more hits against another person.

You know how I've been joking about buckles giving Koji problems? Turns out, his minor supernatural luck is going to make that a reality, but not in the way you think. Throwing buckles at Koji may hurt him (or not, AnPr go brrr), but by then there's going to be buckles on the floor. Pre-Yearning Ace is used, so he may have his seven buckles with him (barring Boost Mark IX) along with his henshin belt. Eight items scattered on the floor are going to have his luck kick in, and probably inconvenience Koji by inexplicably making him trip on it and fall or something of the sort. Smart as Koji is, luck will make it so.

Quick question, who's the most acrobatic person Koji has fought?

what can ace do against ayano's analytical prediction?

Because while I currently don't have the full answer to his AnPr, like how that's gonna carry him, the funny little thing known as 2000 years is definitely going to help (I'm getting it done, but morning duties call).

Edit: Added some points that have been discussed after rereading the thread.

 

[Shadowslash125]

But we need to consider potency and methods of predicting here

Koji can predict based on

• Posture
• Intuition
• Predict sneak attacks from blind spots/point blank range
• Predict via body movement
• Analyze timings, Trajectories of objects
• Intentions
• Can visualize the future and think of the most possible one through sheer mental calculations
• memorize attack patterns

Ok, here we go, tapping into the 2000 years of experience thingy. Ok right off the bat, Geats can resist 2 out of the 8 methods of Koji's AnPr (Environmental prediction is missing for some reason). So Imma try pitting Ace against the rest of his methods.

Attack patterns will be all over the place as he's going to be utilising all he's got from over the years. Even from the known incarnations, Ace has more than enough attacks and skills to use and go through before Koji can memorize all of them. The same can be said for posture, but Ace usually just stands straight before he starts fighting so ehh.
Intentions will Koji out, as they have the same intention to defeat and possibly kill each other, and so Ace will act accordingly. No answer for sneak attack predictions (aww no Ace jumpscare) but even if he's able to, the location isn't suited for sneak attacks anyway. It's a coliseum after all (a small one at that), and you know who has experience in coliseums? Ace via his Roman incarnation.

Intuition is going to be interesting. Ace is a cunning fox, constantly outsmarting his opponents whenever possible. As cunning as he is, he can also detect foul play, like when he immediately figured out two of the staff members were deliberately making him lose by jumbling up the clues to escape the maze just by looking at them. In the match itself, he's going to be unwavering (even with the fear hax), and his willpower helps by a ton. TLDR: Unwavering and Cunning, like a fox.

No answer for future visualization, but it might be similar to the attack pattern section where Ace just combs through his skill set to do something that seems outlandish at this time and age but makes sense in a certain time period. Minor Supernatural Luck-Buckle combo may help too.

If it helps, the most skilled opponent Ace has fought against is a god slayer who was able to kill all of the Norse and Greek pantheon (the one that blew up the planet). Not to mention he's able to go toe-to-toe against riders from the future and from other rider series as well (the staff running the DGP are all from the future where everything about them is designed and dull, so they made the DGP to have something fun to watch). One of which was specifically designed by the final boss to oversee the final DGP (and take him down). Hey, finally something that doesn't use the 2000 years of experience thing!

 

[Shadowslash125]

And as BERRIES has said, Ace even without his strength, intelligence or luck was able to defeat a literal god slayer with his determination and skill.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bump

 

[Hiiilt]

Quick question, who's the most acrobatic person Koji has fought?

afaik the only acrobatic person in cote is koenji but they never fought against each other

 

[Shadowslash125]

afaik the only acrobatic person in cote is koenji but they never fought against each other

I see, so what about the people he has actually fought? Any acrobatics?

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok forget about the acrobatics question, Ace's acrobatics is locked behind his rider form.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Attack patterns will be all over the place as he's going to be utilising all he's got from over the years. Even from the known incarnations, Ace has more than enough attacks and skills to use and go through before Koji can memorize all of them. The same can be said for posture, but Ace usually just stands straight before he starts fighting so ehh.

By predicting posture i meant that Koji predicted that Housen was going to stab himself which was something that could not be predicted from posture alone

What you said is the same as Housen

Housen was in a normal and relaxed posture (iirc) but Koji still predicted him

Intentions will Koji out, as they have the same intention to defeat and possibly kill each other, and so Ace will act accordingly. No answer for sneak attack predictions (aww no Ace jumpscare) but even if he's able to, the location isn't suited for sneak attacks anyway. It's a coliseum after all (a small one at that), and you know who has experience in coliseums? Ace via his Roman incarnation.

By intentions i meant that Koji can predict what the opponent intends to do

Like Koji predicted that Manabu was going for a throw just by looking at him or smth

Intuition is going to be interesting. Ace is a cunning fox, constantly outsmarting his opponents whenever possible. As cunning as he is, he can also detect foul play, like when he immediately figured out two of the staff members were deliberately making him lose by jumbling up the clues to escape the maze just by looking at them. In the match itself, he's going to be unwavering (even with the fear hax), and his willpower helps by a ton. TLDR: Unwavering and Cunning, like a fox.

By intuition i meant like

Koji's intuition works as instinctive action but it's not

See it as Koji's instinct

He could dodge a sneak attack from a blind spot with intuition alone

No answer for future visualization, but it might be similar to the attack pattern section where Ace just combs through his skill set to do something that seems outlandish at this time and age but makes sense in a certain time period. Minor Supernatural Luck-Buckle combo may help too.

His buckle doesn't change his body movement though XD

If it helps, the most skilled opponent Ace has fought against is a god slayer who was able to kill all of the Norse and Greek pantheon (the one that blew up the planet). Not to mention he's able to go toe-to-toe against riders from the future and from other rider series as well (the staff running the DGP are all from the future where everything about them is designed and dull, so they made the DGP to have something fun to watch). One of which was specifically designed by the final boss to oversee the final DGP (and take him down). Hey, finally something that doesn't use the 2000 years of experience thing!

Depends on how skilled this god slayer is XD

What feats does he have?

 

[Shadowslash125]

Depends on how skilled this god slayer is XD

What feats does he have?

Thing is, he doesn't actually have a profile yet, but speaking from the ones listed in Ace's one, he split Ace into four fragments based on his stats and stole his strength, luck and intellect while also no-selling all the other riders in the movie (except Ace because willpower goes brr). He then blows up the planet.
And BERRIES and I already told you that he's able to kill all of the Norse and Greek pantheon of gods without even using his rider form (which he only got from successfully taking his three stats and considering his willpower fragment as a dreg, costing him the battle). That kill count amounts to something, especially since it's filled with gods.

His buckle doesn't change his body movement though XD

It won't, but it will disrupt Koji, that's what I meant by it. And he already resists the body movement method of his AnPr via Dapaan feat.
His minor supernatural luck is potent enough to have someone who is MIA in the series save the Ace of Luck (the fragment of Ace that only has luck) from imminent danger. His luck literally called for outside help. While obviously, that's not going to happen in this matchup, his luck will cause Koji to inexplicably trip and fall on his buckles that he has scattered or inexplicably get in the way of his attacks. Or may even give Ace lucky hits that can bypass his AnPr (yea, he'll still be AnPred but haha luck go "yosha, lucky!"). Two hands on his head and the bowling ball crush feat will take place.
That God Slayer had this luck when he fought Ace in the last part of the movie.

 

[RoggerReggor]

ace isn't resisting ayano's fear hax but he should be able to keep fighting even though he is feeling fear due to his supernatural willpower

Ayanokouji canonically tried to use it (but it was resisted) and try to make someone stay on their feet. In fact, when the person rose up after resisting it, he himself was trying to find the reason behind it and tried to point out willpower as one of the reasons.

But yeah, the point is that he can actually use it (when necessary) to make others stay down, he can even control people through that and cause them to reveal their secrets.

The only thing is that he has only used it 3 times, and also when he didn't find any other way. However, if he does use it, then there's high chance he can just stun his opponent and create a punching bag which wouldn't attack back out of them.

 

[RoggerReggor]

afaik the only acrobatic person in cote is koenji but they never fought against each other

Ibuki also showed very decently athletic movements in Y1V7 (or Season 2 Episode 12). However, it isn't on her profile, but yes, it doesn't take a genius to realize that she is a very acrobatic.

And also, Zetsu is already working on her "better" profile afaik.

 

[Shadowslash125]

the point is that he can actually use it (when necessary) to make others stay down, he can even control people through that and cause them to reveal their secrets

This point has already been discussed above but as a fox guy with 2000 years of experience fighting in what I can only describe as a sort of white room filled with monsters and other riders to fight throughout four incarnations, not to mention fighting a god slayer that blew up his planet, there's no way a highschooler's glare is going to stop Ace from getting stunned and becoming a punching bag. Even if he does get scared, his willpower will carry him.

I mean like, Ace is someone who once had no powers, no brain, and no strength and still thought it was a good idea to fight someone after he blew up a planet. Like, Ace would likely feel fear, but that never stopped him from fighting

 

[Shadowslash125]

By intentions i meant that Koji can predict what the opponent intends to do
Like Koji predicted that Manabu was going for a throw just by looking at him or smth

Ok, this checks out. Not much of an answer to this, but it looks like I mixed up my answers for intention and intuition, so I feel I should explain that part again.

For intentions part, Ace is very cunning, being compared to that of a fox. He's been able to constantly outsmart his opponents, regardless of skill (though that isn't a problem, since he has been fighting skilful enemies for quite a long long time, monsters or humans). Sure, some of it comes from preparation but deriving from that, he's also able to think way way ahead, like how he got a powerup from the wishes of four of his previous incarnations when he had shown the willpower to save the world, not to mention regaining his memories back by himself to return to the DGP when he was eliminated due to foul play from the game master (the DGP wipes the eliminated players' memories regarding the competition away from it). What I'm saying is that I accidentally spoke about how Ace is going to deal with Koji's future visualization with his own. I swear I was getting to the intentions part.

Back to intentions, the cunning Ace can get a win out of the opponents in some shape or form, sometimes deliberately losing to get what he wants, like taking the belt that teleports him to the inner parts of the DGP from the bull rider (who is pretty much neck-and-neck with him every time they fight through sheer ******* will of his own) and getting information of the true nature of the DGP out of the future people spectating them while he and bull rider fight). So while his immediate action's intent will be predicted, the overall goal Ace is reaching for may not be known easily, going hand in hand with his prep on the go.

By intuition i meant like Koji's intuition works as instinctive action but it's not
See it as Koji's instinct He could dodge a sneak attack from a blind spot with intuition alone

I think their intuition would be similar if not identical since Ace was able to do the same.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

For intentions part, Ace is very cunning, being compared to that of a fox. He's been able to constantly outsmart his opponents, regardless of skill (though that isn't a problem, since he has been fighting skilful enemies for quite a long long time, monsters or humans). Sure, some of it comes from preparation but deriving from that, he's also able to think way way ahead, like how he got a powerup from the wishes of four of his previous incarnations when he had shown the willpower to save the world, not to mention regaining his memories back by himself to return to the DGP when he was eliminated due to foul play from the game master (the DGP wipes the eliminated players' memories regarding the competition away from it). What I'm saying is that I accidentally spoke about how Ace is going to deal with Koji's future visualization with his own. I swear I was getting to the intentions part.

Being cunning like a fox isn't helping here though, That only applies to outsmarting and not in H2H

I don't see how he will know Koji is predicting his intentions and dodge

Back to intentions, the cunning Ace can get a win out of the opponents in some shape or form, sometimes deliberately losing to get what he wants, like taking the belt that teleports him to the inner parts of the DGP from the bull rider (who is pretty much neck-and-neck with him every time they fight through sheer ******* will of his own) and getting information of the true nature of the DGP out of the future people spectating them while he and bull rider fight). So while his immediate action's intent will be predicted, the overall goal Ace is reaching for may not be known easily, going hand in hand with his prep on the go.

Koji has unpredictable attacks for which i don't see on Ace's profile him resisting that

Like, Koji goes for a punch, Ace sees that and tries to evade to the left, Only to get hit in another vital area

Koji ANPR is easily letting him know how the enemy will move alot of steps ahead

Also, I don't see how Ace will get out of Ayanokouji's grip given i think Ace is not an evaside fighter like Koji

Koji has class 5 LS while Ace has athletic, This huge difference is gonna be hard to overcome even with empowerment

Unless his empowerment can go further than class 5 and even then, I don't know if he will still be awake after Koji just K.O's him with pressure points

 

[Shadowslash125]

I don't see how he will know Koji is predicting his intentions and dodge

Not immediately, no. While he's obviously going to be a bit taken aback by his predictions, the more he tests the waters, the more he's going to learn about it.
Ace was able to go from missing his shots from a game master who was doing the fecking worm dance on the floor to casually tagging him a while later in the series. In a matchup like this, he's going to be able to figure it out faster.

Koji has unpredictable attacks for which i don't see on Ace's profile
Like, Koji goes for a punch, Ace sees that and tries to evade to the left, Only to get hit in another vital area

Ace will most likely be able to tank his punches (remember that he scales to 70.8KJ from crushing two bowling balls with one hand each). And supernatural willpower will keep him hanging on way beyond his limits, assuming his minor supernatural luck and empowerment haven't kicked in at the time of the hit.

Also, I don't see how Ace will get out of Ayanokouji's grip given i think Ace is not an evaside fighter like Koji
Koji has class 5 LS while Ace has athletic, This huge difference is gonna be hard to overcome even with empowerment

Honestly, Ace can dodge out of the way of his grip, or let himself be grabbed so that he can land good hits on him while he's being grabbed.
Since their goal is to defeat each other, his empowerment might come into play early on, depending on how desperate Fox Guy is. Probably as soon as he's surprised by his AnPr. The empowerment is impactful enough that his friends can contend with and even help defeat the final boss of the series in their base forms (since their final forms are immensely powerful at the time of the series) after they had been detransformed and defeated minutes prior, meaning that it's going to amp Ace fast enough to make up for the stuff he has to endure when fighting Koji, regardless of intention or whichever side is winning. Empowerment depends on desire, and his one is immensely strong.

I don't know if he will still be awake after Koji just K.O's him with pressure points

his supernatural willpower may help him immensely against Koji's pressure points should they land. While whether he can tank his pp via willpower is debatable (leaning towards a no), SBA states that incap has to last an hour, meaning that with his willpower, he might be able to wake up earlier. Probably helps more if Koji is decking on him while he is knocked out, since he's going to be able to tank it via willpower. Should he wake up (or even pretend to be knocked in the first place), his empowerment is going to kick in, giving him a boost.

However, blindsiding him completely will not be easy, as BERRIES has said, as even in his civilian form he was able to dodge a punch from his back when he didn't notice it, and even caught one after dodging a few more hits against another person.

Koji ANPR is easily letting him know how the enemy will move alot of steps ahead

Can visualize the future and think of the most possible one through sheer mental calculations

I assume that you're talking about this method of AnPr. Then yeah, Ace isn't exactly going to be bypassing this one.

Keep in mind that this is what Ace can do by himself, without factoring in the 2000 years of skill experience and the minor supernatural luck I've talked about. Adding those two into the mix, he's going to be quite formidable in this matchup. While AnPr is a problem, he outskills and should continue to outskill Koji by a wide margin, regardless of whether he's transformed or not. Even late into the series, he's able to maintain and even enhance his skill in comparison to four people and three groups:

The People:​

• Keiwa, who went from a guy desperately trying to find a job to becoming a ******* ninja in a short period of time.
• Neon who was a rich girl turned awesome badass, being able to contend with the likes of Beroba in her premium monster form, a sponsor from the far future.
• Michinaga, who was mostly second to Ace in every DGP he's in, powering himself up immensely by almost becoming a Jyamato, then actually defeating Beroba who was a rider the size of a mecha.
• Mela, the god slayer who has killed the entire Norse and Greek pantheon of their series in-universe and stole and mimicked his powers and rider form. Ace was able to defeat him even in his weakest fragment, the Ace of Hearts (known for his supernatural willpower).

The Groups:​

• The DGP staff and its sponsors: The people from a far future, the second most powerful group that's listed here. Beroba is included in this group and gave Michinaga and Neon a good fight.
• The Jyamato: The monster faction and main antagonistic forces of the DGP. Ace can solo entire groups of them on his own, including a giant ******* Jyamato ship. In simpler terms, imagine a monster version of the Titanic ship floating in the sky and shooting lasers everywhere. Recent Jyamato can inherit human memories among other things.
• Other riders from other series via crossover: Ace is able to stalemate against a kamen rider that has gone into his post-series key and fight against a few other riders that can go into mirrors.

The four known incarnations are from Ancient Rome, America at the time of the revolution, and Ancient Japan (meaning only three have their locations known), meaning that Ace will have the skillset of someone at that time period, not to mention these incarnations have been winners of the DGP death game throughout their lives. Because of the sheer scale that is over 2000 years, there's bound to be more incarnations that Ace has the skills of. TLDR: 2000 years of experience winning a deadly competition along with the current experience of Ace fighting against new adversaries that he can maintain and improve on.
And minor supernatural luck (gotta sleep so have the reply)

You know how I've been joking about buckles giving Koji problems? Turns out, his minor supernatural luck is going to make that a reality, but not in the way you think. Throwing buckles at Koji may hurt him (or not, AnPr go brrr), but by then there's going to be buckles on the floor. Pre-Yearning Ace is used, so he may have his seven buckles with him (barring Boost Mark IX) along with his henshin belt. Eight items scattered on the floor are going to have his luck kick in, and probably inconvenience Koji by inexplicably making him trip on it and fall or something of the sort. Smart as Koji is, luck will make it so.

His minor supernatural luck is potent enough to have someone who is MIA in the series save the Ace of Luck (the fragment of Ace that only has luck) from imminent danger. His luck literally called for outside help. While obviously, that's not going to happen in this matchup, his luck will cause Koji to inexplicably trip and fall on his buckles that he has scattered or inexplicably get in the way of his attacks. Or may even give Ace lucky hits that can bypass his AnPr (yea, he'll still be AnPred but haha luck go "yosha, lucky!").
That God Slayer had this luck when he fought Ace in the last part of the movie.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Not immediately, no. While he's obviously going to be a bit taken aback by his predictions, the more he tests the waters, the more he's going to learn about it.
Ace was able to go from missing his shots from a game master who was doing the fecking worm dance on the floor to casually tagging him a while later in the series. In a matchup like this, he's going to be able to figure it out faster.

Koji has better AD though since it's instant

Also this part here;

"Ace was able to go from missing his shots from a game master who was doing the fecking worm dance on the floor to casually tagging him a while later in the series"

This tells me that his AD is not nearly fast enough for this match up, Later in the series could mean he could become good after days, Weeks or months and not after some minutes/hours

This kinda makes this argument of him adapting to Koji moot

Ace will most likely be able to tank his punches (remember that he scales to 70.8KJ from crushing two bowling balls with one hand each).

Koji normally prefers to go with PP if his opponents are stronger than him

He will know because of his info analysis

And supernatural willpower will keep him hanging on way beyond his limits, assuming his minor supernatural luck and empowerment haven't kicked in at the time of the hit.

His SW won't let him keep awake after getting hit in the neck unless he has feats of it

This move specifically takes out all of your oxygen and K.O's you

Carotid Strike - The carotid slap/strike is a great self-defense technique, which is very useful in self-defense and close-range situations. When executed correctly, the so-called “Okinawan slap“, “carotid strike” or “carotid slap” will cause the assailant to have a sudden loss of oxygen to the brain, followed by fainting and collapse.

Koji can use this after pinning him down

Honestly, Ace can dodge out of the way of his grip, or let himself be grabbed so that he can land good hits on him while he's being grabbed.

Trust me, If he gets grabbed, Not only he is gonna be stuck on his grip forever but he also won't be able to hit Koji because of his ANPR

Since their goal is to defeat each other, his empowerment might come into play early on, depending on how desperate Fox Guy is.

Doubt it will come out early when he doesn't even know the guy he is fighting though XD

Probably as soon as he's surprised by his AnPr.

Just being good at evading won't make someone desperate

His empowerment heavily implies that it comes from dire situations

Koji being good at dodging doesn't qualify as it lol

The empowerment is impactful enough that his friends can contend with and even help defeat the final boss of the series in their base forms (since their final forms are immensely powerful at the time of the series) after they had been detransformed and defeated minutes prior, meaning that it's going to amp Ace fast enough to make up for the stuff he has to endure when fighting Koji, regardless of intention or whichever side is winning. Empowerment depends on desire, and his one is immensely strong.

Assuming he can last long enough ofc

Not sure if he will use it against a highschooler though lol

I don't see him standing after getting hit in the neck and get his oxygen taken out of his body

I assume that you're talking about this method of AnPr. Then yeah, Ace isn't exactly going to be bypassing this one.

Actually, He ain't bypassing none in general

If we factor in the scaling chain

Since i assume Kamen Rider's ANPR don't have a scaling chain since they don't outpredict their opponent in the right aspects that Koji does

Keep in mind that this is what Ace can do by himself, without factoring in the 2000 years of skill experience and the minor supernatural luck I've talked about. Adding those two into the mix, he's going to be quite formidable in this matchup. While AnPr is a problem, he outskills and should continue to outskill Koji by a wide margin, regardless of whether he's transformed or not. Even late into the series, he's able to maintain and even enhance his skill in comparison to four people and three groups:

Koji's AD + Power mimicry will soon cover this in 2-3 minutes max

 

[RoggerReggor]

I assume that you're talking about this method of AnPr. Then yeah, Ace isn't exactly going to be bypassing this one.

Keep in mind that this is what Ace can do by himself, without factoring in the 2000 years of skill experience and the minor supernatural luck I've talked about. Adding those two into the mix, he's going to be quite formidable in this matchup. While AnPr is a problem, he outskills and should continue to outskill Koji by a wide margin, regardless of whether he's transformed or not.

AnPr is a huge adversary for Ace. It isn't like he can just "bypass" it. It is a skill which has allowed Kiyotaka to become untouchable. Ace is good at attacking but the only problem is that he will need to connect his attacks first. It doesn't matter if you have an AP advantage, if you cannot even touch your opponent. Just outskilling doesn't happen to be a prime reason, you need a resistance to AnPr, and that too, specifically against Kiyotaka, someone who doesn't even go with the conventional AnPr setting and is absurdly broken in it.

Also, the 2000 years thing is wild. Like I don't mean it's canonically wrong, but just that it just adds nothing to counter Kiyotaka. All it adds is higher knowledge and expertise to Ace, which is cool but again, not enough to counter AnPr.

Also, about fear hax, what you mentioned doesn't give Ace any kind of resistance against fear inducement. He didn't resist fear inducing. Just being purely more resilient to fear doesn't make one resistant to fear hax, given how supernaturally it works on Kiyotaka's parts. He had legit controlled someone to have them reveal their secrets even when they themselves were trying to hide them.

Also, Ace might be more skilled, but let's talk about how insane Kiyotaka is as well. Kiyotaka can legit just copy someone if he knows anything similar to what his opponent is demonstrating and that too, almost instantly. His learning abilities is insane, it takes him very little time to adapt to his opponents.

 

[BERRIES555]

****…this just became a precog battle again…

Bro since when did they censor curse words

 

[Shadowslash125]

****…this just became a precog battle again…

Bro since when did they censor curse words

Been there since I arrived or something.

 

[BERRIES555]

AnPr is a huge adversary for Ace. It isn't like he can just "bypass" it. It is a skill which has allowed Kiyotaka to become untouchable. Ace is good at attacking but the only problem is that he will need to connect his attacks first. It doesn't matter if you have an AP advantage, if you cannot even touch your opponent. Just outskilling doesn't happen to be a prime reason, you need a resistance to AnPr, and that too, specifically against Kiyotaka, someone who doesn't even go with the conventional AnPr setting and is absurdly broken in it.

Okay so, Ace has fought AnPr users before. So, in the Geats X ReVice movie, Ace stalemated against Ikki, who in the previous movie was able to fight on equal footing with Touma. Now, what makes this impressive is that Touma is someone who’s AnPr allows him to predict attacks through skipped time.

Now for context, Touma had fought against Durendal, who had the power to erase seconds of time to create openings. Basically it’s King Crimson from JJBA. Now, while in the middle of the fight, Durendal activated this ability to erase time and within the exact same second, Touma was able to 1; recognize time was erased 2; predicted when Durendal was about to attack and 3; shifted his positioning from an attack to correctly defend against Durendal’s attack.

This Touma fought Ikki, and Ace stalemated Ikki.

Ace also has his supernatural luck which would be an annoyance to Koji at the very least

 

[BERRIES555]

Also, the reason why I didn’t mention this before is cause I genuinely forgot that Ace has scaling outside his show. Sorry bout that, my b

 

[Shadowslash125]

This tells me that his AD is not nearly fast enough for this match up, Later in the series could mean he could become good after days, Weeks or months and not after some minutes/hours

To be fair, there's that gap in time because they got interrupted by the Jyamato taking away that game master's driver and forming a death game of their own (hence the gap, I should've brought a better example)
Ok, so I've already talked about his friends who have grown considerably in the skill department in a short amount of time. Ace can not only keep maintaining his superior skills but also improve upon them the same way his friends did in that short time. That's why he's been able to go head-to-head with a god slayer of all people in a matter of minutes.

Not sure if he will use it against a highschooler though lol

DGP's players are a diverse cast, ranging from high schoolers to old men who have back problems. They call anyone who has a desire for something. In the third episode alone, he no-sold a high schooler. There's no reason why he wouldn't do it.

Doubt it will come out early when he doesn't even know the guy he is fighting though XD

If it helps, Ace has fought a rider from another series (who is in their post-series key and will be immensely powerful) to a stalemate. And it's not just one rider, since riders from another series different from that other rider series also came along to fight in the DGP. Ace does not know any of them, yet he's able to match up to an end-game rider. His empowerment will come out regardless of who he's facing, it might even be as early as they meet eyes.

Just being good at evading won't make someone desperate
His empowerment heavily implies that it comes from dire situations
Koji being good at dodging doesn't qualify as it lol

Dodging once wouldn't be the problem, but should he be cornered by his AnPr at any point, empowerment will come flying in to save his ass.

His SW won't let him keep awake after getting hit in the neck unless he has feats of it

I don't see him standing after getting hit in the neck and get his oxygen taken out of his body

And that's assuming he wouldn't just block or dodge it. Ace was able to dodge attacks from his back, specifically Dapaan's shooting and one rider trying to surprise him from behind.

Trust me, If he gets grabbed, Not only he is gonna be stuck on his grip forever but he also won't be able to hit Koji because of his ANPR

Tbh he's more of the evading and blocking type. Rewatching some of the episodes again,

Koji has better AD though since it's instant

Kiyotaka can legit just copy someone if he knows anything similar to what his opponent is demonstrating and that too, almost instantly. His learning abilities is insane, it takes him very little time to adapt to his opponents.

All of this would be fine and ok if Ace didn't have over 2000 years of experience, along with fighting other riders from another series into a stalemate and the thing BERRIES has said. While I'm not saying he won't be able to do this at all, the gap between Koji and Ace's skills is so large that it will take a while for him to even get to the level of Ace's friends, let alone Ace.

And Minor Supernatural Luck is still a thing and a very viable wincon from Ace's side.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Okay so, Ace has fought AnPr users before. So, in the Geats X ReVice movie, Ace stalemated against Ikki, who in the previous movie was able to fight on equal footing with Touma. Now, what makes this impressive is that Touma is someone who’s AnPr allows him to predict attacks through skipped time.

Now for context, Touma had fought against Durendal, who had the power to erase seconds of time to create openings. Basically it’s King Crimson from JJBA. Now, while in the middle of the fight, Durendal activated this ability to erase time and within the exact same second, Touma was able to 1; recognize time was erased 2; predicted when Durendal was about to attack and 3; shifted his positioning from an attack to correctly defend against Durendal’s attack.

This Touma fought Ikki, and Ace stalemated Ikki.

Ace also has his supernatural luck which would be an annoyance to Koji at the very least

Also, Touma scales to Calibur, who can see into the future.

 

[RoggerReggor]

****…this just became a precog battle again…

Bro since when did they censor curse words

It's been like around half a year or something lol.

Okay so, Ace has fought AnPr users before. So, in the Geats X ReVice movie, Ace stalemated against Ikki, who in the previous movie was able to fight on equal footing with Touma. Now, what makes this impressive is that Touma is someone who’s AnPr allows him to predict attacks through skipped time.

Now for context, Touma had fought against Durendal, who had the power to erase seconds of time to create openings. Basically it’s King Crimson from JJBA. Now, while in the middle of the fight, Durendal activated this ability to erase time and within the exact same second, Touma was able to 1; recognize time was erased 2; predicted when Durendal was about to attack and 3; shifted his positioning from an attack to correctly defend against Durendal’s attack.

This Touma fought Ikki, and Ace stalemated Ikki.

Ace also has his supernatural luck which would be an annoyance to Koji at the very least

Again, this is very impressive for a feat for AnPr. But Kiyotaka's AnPr doesn't work this way. His stance might be same, like he can predict any/all attacks (just used a pronoun to describe attacks fr) before they happen, or before even a character has a stance. But if Ace reveals his upper limit (which he obviously will due to him having no prior knowledge and needing to not hold back), his loss is as good as confirmed. Kiyotaka can use his analysis to predict attacks based on upper limits, and he can also use intuition through which he can predict attacks, which works the same way as upper limit but it's just that instead of his opponents revealing their upper limits to Kiyotaka, Kiyotaka himself tries to learn their limits through using his intuition.

From what I can see, Touma is an impressive character who can sense that time was erased (more impressive if he didn't have the information about his opponents, and lesser if vice-versa), and predict his opponents' attacks very well, but you will need to prove that Touma works the same way as Kiyotaka, I wouldn't say who is better like Kiyotaka or Touma, but mention it that both cannot be compared, both are equally impressive in their own right and work very differently, more like Kiyotaka counters Ace with his ability more, more than Touma could.

And yeah, supernatural luck can be annoyance, but as per mentioned, it's a minor luck advantage. It might allow Ace to get saved by one of the hits, or a few to say, that's for sure.

 

[Shadowslash125]

If it helps, Touma also has constantly gone head-to-head against Kamen Rider Calibur (first and second user), who has the precognition to literally see into possible futures, being able to tell correctly what Touma is able to do at their fights.

 

[BERRIES555]

It's been like around half a year or something lol.

Again, this is very impressive for a feat for AnPr. But Kiyotaka's AnPr doesn't work this way. His stance might be same, like he can predict any/all attacks (just used a pronoun to describe attacks fr) before they happen, or before even a character has a stance. But if Ace reveals his upper limit (which he obviously will due to him having no prior knowledge and needing to not hold back), his loss is as good as confirmed. Kiyotaka can use his analysis to predict attacks based on upper limits, and he can also use intuition through which he can predict attacks, which works the same way as upper limit but it's just that instead of his opponents revealing their upper limits to Kiyotaka, Kiyotaka himself tries to learn their limits through using his intuition.

From what I can see, Touma is an impressive character who can sense that time was erased (more impressive if he didn't have the information about his opponents, and lesser if vice-versa), and predict his opponents' attacks very well, but you will need to prove that Touma works the same way as Kiyotaka, I wouldn't say who is better like Kiyotaka or Touma, but mention it that both cannot be compared, both are equally impressive in their own right and work very differently, more like Kiyotaka counters Ace with his ability more, more than Touma could.

And yeah, supernatural luck can be annoyance, but as per mentioned, it's a minor luck advantage. It might allow Ace to get saved by one of the hits, or a few to say, that's for sure.

Okay so, how does Koji’s AnPr works? Cause I was told in the thread that it’s through like, body positioning, instinct and such. Wha this thing about the upper limit.

Also, Ace has held back against others when the time calls for it. his battle against Michi has him holding back to get Michi to bring his guard down. His fight against Keiwa has him holding back to have the game designers to reveal their hand. He even held back when fighting regular people so he doesn’t accidentally kill them. In character, Ace is honest to god hella paranoid because any defeat means not seeing his mother in his eyes, it got to the point where Ace refused to become friends with anyone and constantly backstabbing them and even created dozens of contingency plans. I highly doubt that he’d go guns blazing agaisnt someone as cold and analytical as Koji.

(I’m taking a plane ride soon so I can’t really look back at the thread to see things. I’d rather load the page and see how it works)

For Ace’s luck, things will randomly play out to have it so it’s in Ace’s favor. Object will appear to randomly trip up Koji. Things will fly out to blind an opponent’s attack. Ace once even accidentally slipped and it caused him to avoid an attack. He also was running up some rocks and accidentally kicked them down to attack his attackers. It basically will allow Koji to land less hits and Ace to get more openings.

 

[Shadowslash125]

(’m taking a plane ride soon so I can’t really look back at the thread to see things. I’d rather load the page and see how it works)

(Have a safe trip man)

 

[RoggerReggor]

I haven't mentioned it, but I am presuming that you have read COTE. So, if you want, I can do the further replies which scans from the novel.

Okay so, how does Koji’s AnPr works? Cause I was told in the thread that it’s through like, body positioning, instinct and such. Wha this thing about the upper limit.

It is never revealed but shown that Kiyotaka becomes invincible after he has analyzed the upper limit of his opponent. Upper limit, as it says, means the true abilities of his opponents, and how strong they are and how well they can use their abilities. By using it, he could see an end to Ryuuen very easily. Instincts is just him guessing (but it's very accurate and it never happened to be wrong) his opponent's ability using his intuition.

Also, Ace has held back against others when the time calls for it. his battle against Michi has him holding back to get Michi to bring his guard down. His fight against Keiwa has him holding back to have the game designers to reveal their hand. He even held back when fighting regular people so he doesn’t accidentally kill them. In character, Ace is honest to god hella paranoid because any defeat means not seeing his mother in his eyes, it got to the point where Ace refused to become friends with anyone and constantly backstabbing them and even created dozens of contingency plans. I highly doubt that he’d go guns blazing agaisnt someone as cold and analytical as Koji.

Proves my point. He had his own reasons to hold back which isn't applied to this fight, he isn't a person who tries to fight like Ryuuen whose fighting style is literally surprising people by showing feints and then attack with greater strength.

(I’m taking a plane ride soon so I can’t really look back at the thread to see things. I’d rather load the page and see how it works)

Have a safe trip.

For Ace’s luck, things will randomly play out to have it so it’s in Ace’s favor. Object will appear to randomly trip up Koji. Things will fly out to blind an opponent’s attack. Ace once even accidentally slipped and it caused him to avoid an attack. He also was running up some rocks and accidentally kicked them down to attack his attackers. It basically will allow Koji to land less hits and Ace to get more openings.

Random things tripping his opponents is definitely very good. It will annoy Kiyotaka for sure, but what is the frequency of it? Does it happen in like every other move or rarely? I remember Shadow mentioning that it was minor one, but I don't really know.

If it helps, Touma also has constantly gone head-to-head against Kamen Rider Calibur (first and second user), who has the precognition to literally see into possible futures, being able to tell correctly what Touma is able to do at their fights.

Precognition is different from Kiyotaka's AnPr. The former has chances to be avoided with feints.

 

[BERRIES555]

I haven't mentioned it, but I am presuming that you have read COTE. So, if you want, I can do the further replies which scans from the novel.

It is never revealed but shown that Kiyotaka becomes invincible after he has analyzed the upper limit of his opponent. Upper limit, as it says, means the true abilities of his opponents, and how strong they are and how well they can use their abilities. By using it, he could see an end to Ryuuen very easily. Instincts is just him guessing (but it's very accurate and it never happened to be wrong) his opponent's ability using his intuition.

Proves my point. He had his own reasons to hold back which isn't applied to this fight, he isn't a person who tries to fight like Ryuuen whose fighting style is literally surprising people by showing feints and then attack with greater strength.

Have a safe trip.

Random things tripping his opponents is definitely very good. It will annoy Kiyotaka for sure, but what is the frequency of it? Does it happen in like every other move or rarely? I remember Shadow mentioning that it was minor one, but I don't really know.

Precognition is different from Kiyotaka's AnPr. The former has chances to be avoided with feints.

Never seen it, it’s interesting but everyone being assholes kinda turns me away from it. You don’t need to send scans, I trust your word

Oof, that doesn’t really help with me understanding it. But the intuition I get. But why is it different from Touma, him blocking Durendal’s attack through skipped time was through intuition and instincts.

While Koji would be able to see Ace’s Upper Limit, Ace in character wouldn’t go all out as soon as the first starts, we way too paranoid for that tbh.

Thanks, it literally was a plane ride from one city to another so it wasn’t too long.

So, there’s a movie clip I could show you. But essentially, Ace-was being chased by some monsters and over the course of the entire chase, which on screen was like 1-2 minutes, no one was able to catch Ace cause random things like rocks and a pool floaty kept tripping them or hitting them.

Yeah I told Slash but Calibur’s precog is VERY unique. It’s to the point where I honestly don’t know another person who has his type of precog

 

[Shadowslash125]

So, there’s a movie clip I could show you. But essentially, Ace-was being chased by some monsters and over the course of the entire chase, which on screen was like 1-2 minutes, no one was able to catch Ace cause random things like rocks and a pool floaty kept tripping them or hitting them.

Here are the two important clips:

As you can see, his luck causes the monsters chasing them to fail by tripping or slipping them not to mention catching Ace's fall using the surroundings.

This here shows how potent his luck is, despite how minor it is. His luck can get someone who was MIA to save the two from the monsters. They didn't even know she was there to save them in the first place.
The point is that the luck will be around for the whole match. Since this is shown via an Ace that's only lucky (he's neither strong nor smart) Our Ace here will be able to capitalize on such luck by, for example, having his buckles be scattered on the floor to constantly trip Koji. Either that or they'll be in the way of his attacks.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

But there are no items scattered in the arena and even external forces are not allowed

Koji could just pick up the buckles and throw them out of arena when he starts to trip randomly

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I feel like Koji is more likely to use his carotid strike to end things fast then Ace using his empowerment

We can kinda agree he won't activate it for awhile yes? Like, Mabye after 5 minutes or more as Koji is just dodging and not doing anything crazy

 

[BERRIES555]

what’s that again?

The intensity and speed of the Empowerment is determined base of Ace’s Desire. If he sees Koji just casually dodging everything he does, he’ll become consumed for his lose and Desire amps will kick in

 

[XxZetsuxX]

what’s that again?

Carotid strike? Basically an attack to the neck that takes out all of your oxygen and makes you faint and collapse

His supernatural willpower won't save him from this as far as i know

The intensity and speed of the Empowerment is determined base of Ace’s Desire. If he sees Koji just casually dodging everything he does, he’ll become consumed for his lose and Desire amps will kick in

Yeah but it's not like he will start to see his lost after 1 second of dodging lol