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Acausality Type 5 checklist

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The mention of change and decay does imply cause/effect, so I can probably see type 5 with that. Depends on if extra context establishes a more explicit causal system they exist outside of.
 
Gasper posting unsong quotes
what
Just ******* get ultima and agnaa instead of providing far less context, hell the cosmology blog would do a better explanation than just posting that
 
Not sure if this qualifies for anything but here is something.

That's from WOD btw.

"All Spheres are, of course, interconnected, their properties cycling through a circle of connections that unite the principles while keeping each individual field a specialized unit of study and effect. In plain English, one thing leads to another, with all of them playing a part in the greater scheme of things.

This cycle creates things out of apparent nothingness – from the initial conception of an idea, to its form, to the perception of its form, to the decay of that form so that the idea, its materials, and its essen>ce can return to the first point of the cycle and begin all over again in some new state.

Each step of that cycle involves a series of Spheres. From original conception in the energy field of Prime, an effect gets focused through consciousness in the Mind and attains substance through the Spirit. Given form in Patterns of Forces, Life, or Matter, the substance interacts with other Patterns through Correspondence and Time. Finally, it breaks down through Entropy, its elements dispersed back to the Prime to start all over again. If there is a Tenth Sphere, it probably governs the entire process, like a circle that encloses this cycle, keeping it all whole and functioning.

EDIT: there is also this:

"We do not necessarily know everything about what we accept to be true. Therefore, when we accept it, we draw in unanticipated consequences. Etherites call this phenomenon the "Trojan Horse." Accepting one thing as true, we accept related things that might contradict our worldview. This is another reason why reduction is false: By believing that reality is only what we can measure, we deny the existence of change (for change occurs after the state that we
measure) and ignores the limits of our perception. Because we cannot know the whole of a given phenomenon, all phenomena have potentially limitless implications."
 
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Is it fine if i just give you the whole quote?

Parmenidean Metaphysics in the
Kitab al-Alacir

Troy, however, is doomed to fall due to the conundrum popularly dubbed "Aretus' first paradox." Aretus describes the world outside of Troy as symbolizing the cosmos and all the thoughts a human being can hold. In doing so, he draws upon arguments similar to those of the pre-Socratic philosopher Parmenides, who argued that it is impossible for anything to truly not exist. All conceivable things are true, because nothing can be objectively proven not to exist if it is precisely described.

"We do not know," says Aretus, "all that may exist. Noble Priam, you may describe jackal-headed men in Ethiopia, omitting fewer details than you might of the Myrmidon ships moored upon our shores. You have seen neither. I have described one; your scouts, the other. If the cosmos is unbounded, all things must reside therein. So it is with the mind."

Aretus points out that if we were to treat everything that exists as relevant to our experience, then we should surely go
mad. Therefore, we create a barrier between that which we accept as relevant, real phenomena and that which is inconsistent with our chosen reality. So, the Wall of Troy around our minds allows us to understand a small part of the cosmos, but in order to do so, we must deny the vast majority of what exists.

Scientists with a physics orientation will no doubt recognize similarities between Aretus' argument and some concepts in quantum mechanics. When we observe an object, all of its possible states of being—its "waveform" —collapse into a single state. Yet we cannot disprovethe nonexistence of other states; we can openly make a weak appeal to reduction — and as Ether Scientists know, reductionism is false. Aretus would argue that it is simply an unreasonably strong application of the Wall of Troy.


Heraclitus and Reality in Flux

The Kitab al-Alacir avoids the problem of solipsism by revealing that phenomena which the mind denies do, in fact, breach the barrier of our denial. It is the nature of reality, however, to test itself against the Wall of Troy. All change occurs when the metaphysical opposite of an accepted concept breaches the barrier.

The Wall of Troy is rebuilt around it and the synthesis between the two is integrated into reality. Aretus uses arguments similar to Heraclitus's to say that all things are transformed by their opposites and that (in agreement with Parmenides) nothing can
ever be destroyed. For example, when water meets fire, steam rises, synthesizing the properties of both but destroying neither.

Obviously, this idea creates some problems when applied to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, but it is important to remember that all phenomena eventually dissolve into Ether, to arise again. Before introducing the Ether, he says that when change arises, we must either discard a previous law or rebuild the Wall of Troy to encompass more. Expanding the boundaries of the mind, the state or the cosmos requires action and virtue (arete).
 
Can I see the scans for the reason? Cause the standard for type 5 has changed to where you need a correlation of them being above causality to them being unchangeable in the world.
 
Can I see the scans for the reason? Cause the standard for type 5 has changed to where you need a correlation of them being above causality to them being unchangeable in the world.
Just remove us for now, we fit the new condition, but it’s better we overhaul everything else with it, which is coming with the new justification.
 
I have no idea why LB has it, it's not my D&D page. Fire away.
 
kk, adding them to the list. Also asked Ultima about the self reference engine characters and he said he alpha centauri can be removed, so adding him.
 
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I don't know if this has been discussed before, but has Oblivion's Aca 5 been approved?

Acausality (Type 5; Oblivion has existed before anything, and will exist after everything. Oblivion predates the Marvel Multiverse and its laws.[15] Oblivion is also above the likes of The Living Tribunal, an entity who governs the cosmic entities.)

Because existing before things doesn't mean being independent of them and being in a state that cannot be interacted with. So that's why I wanted to ask
 
I have seen a **** ton of people agreeing with Oblivion being basically the top 2 of marvel so I suppose its just something subjective
But I really dont care about Marvel Tier 1 stuff
 
I have seen a **** ton of people agreeing with Oblivion being basically the top 2 of marvel so I suppose its just something subjective
But I really dont care about Marvel Tier 1 stuff
It's not something subjective, no.
Oblivion scales to the far shore while the Phoenix scales to the white hot room which is already above the beyond. Phoenix can also stomp the Beyonder who is above Oblivion.
 
Is that the whole explanation? Sounds like type 4 at best given it doesn’t mention they exist outside of causality completely, just that they’re in a set of laws different than what we know of.
 
Why is that linked byt itself instead of along with stuff from silver key, what
After an impressive pause the waves continued, saying that what the denizens of few-dimensioned zones call change is merely a function of their consciousness, which views the external world from various cosmic angles. As the shapes produced by the cutting of a cone seem to vary with the angles of cutting—being circle, ellipse, parabola, or hyperbola according to that angle, yet without any change in the cone itself—so do the local aspects of an unchanged and endless reality seem to change with the cosmic angle of regarding. To this variety of angles of consciousness the feeble beings of the inner worlds are slaves, since with rare exceptions they cannot learn to control them. Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change. But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will.
Time, the waves went on, is motionless, and without beginning or end. That it has motion, and is the cause of change, is an illusion. Indeed, it is itself really an illusion, for except to the narrow sight of beings in limited dimensions there are no such things as past, present, and future. Men think of time only because of what they call change, yet that too is illusion. All that was, and is, and is to be, exists simultaneously.
Along with a bunch of other stuff
 
I don't think Akutu Sai qualities for type 5.
This is his current justification:

"Exists outside of the causality system of the stories of the Extra-Universal Gods"
 
Out of curiosity, why is “changeless” and “unchangeable” a requirement now?
From the OP:

"Let's get the requirements out of the way: to qualify you need to have some statements that you're beyond causality to the point of being an unchangeable entity (essentially being unaffected by anything and everything that would affect the world in some way shape or form). Both of these are required for type 5 to be validated, as without these two, it can be taken as either a resistance to causality manipulation or type 4 Acausality or some other ability depending on the context. The same applies to the alleged acausal character being interactable by normal people, or more generally beings that have absolutely no precedent for being able to do that as that would be an anti-feat and would be one of the two mentioned prior."
 
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