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About "stronger=hax resistant" stuff

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It does depend on the hax, I'd say.

Stuff like Matter manip, existence erasure and everything that deals with physically affecting the body of the person shouldn't be able to affect higher dimensional beings for obvious reasons.

But then we have stuff like mind manip. If a character's version of mind manip doesn't come from directly affecting the brain, I'd say that there would be no reasons for it to not work on such beings.
 
I'm with Saikou. It should strongly depend on the hax being used. Especially if it's just statistics amplification.
 
Except at this point you are focusing on a fallacy the does not wffext the scope of the thread. You are docusing ao in depth one something ao irrelevant. Whether you agree or not, let's not focus on the one false analogy. Why I say this? It's because it can easily derail the thread when you can discuss this with Kalt on his message wall. There is a time and a place for everything. Especially when it is about something that is basically common knowledge around here. Why not let it slide. You don't have to address every single miatake a person makes. If if you felt like you had to, do so on the message wall. Either way I am dropping this. This is just my opinion on this. This is derailing.
 
No character should have restienace to Haxs unless they have shown so to said haxs, even defending against one haxs doesnt mean all hax wont work now because you strong.
 
Kaltias said:
Even if it was sentient, it wouldn't be able to do anything.

The drawing is just an approximation. I know that it isn't 2D, but it's as close as you can get. A 2D being can't move in 3D space (well not freely) because it doesn't understand how to do it. Can I move freely in 4D and run until I reach yesterday?
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Someone's never heard of a paper cut :^)

On topic, I think this is best evaluated case by case instead of applying a blanket regulation to all verses this applies to. DB does show that power > hax sometimes (we haven't seen anyone use their power against durability negating hax, yet it's implied that even hakai wouldn't work on Zeno).

Goku vs Hit Beerus vs Arale Etc

Which is why I also think it makes no sense that people who overcome hax by power doesn't give that resistance to other characters of similar power. Ex, if Vegeta can resist absolute zero by becoming a super saiyan, why can't Goku or Cabba do it?
 
@ArbitraryNumbers

The tiering system page mention is just intended as a 2-D approximation example that is easy for people new to the wiki to understand. That is all.

In addition, this seems off-topic.
 
I don't think that something like mind hax would be different. A 4D character logically need a 4D mind in order to think properly.

Anything with a hypervolume (4D volume) exists at different points in time simultaneously. It doesn't make sense for its mind to not do it.
 
A "4D mind" would only be higher from a 3-D mind spatially. As in, it would have higher understandings of higher dimensions.

No reasons why this would make it immune to all mind hax. A 4D human will still be affected by stuff like Cognitohazard or a charm ability. Their minds works the same on that level.
 
But why you would be able to affect the 4D being? In a normal situation you aren't even interacting with it, just with its 3D shadow/projection that you can perceive.
 
Kaltias said:
But why you would be able to affect the 4D being? In a normal situation you aren't even interacting with it, just with its 3D shadow/projection that you can perceive.
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This is correct, yes, although, again, plenty of writers do not care at all about logic.
 
@Arbitrary, the drawing on a piece of paper analogy is on the Tiering System page. The point of the analogy still stands. Even if the drawing on the piece of paper was sentient, it would still not be frozen in comparison to a human, and if it were literally truly 2D like the analogy suggests, also suggesting that the 3D paper is to represent the universe that the 2D drawing is in, it is suggesting that 2D beings are infinitely slower, weaker, and smaller, and comparing a 3D being to a 4D being is similar to comparing a literal 2D drawing to a 3D being.
 
  • Cough* Naruto vs Juggernaut *Cough*
Lol, but seriously, I agree with this. I also agree with Matt...but then if it has to be looked at on a case by case, wouldn't a thread allowing people to ask about specific matches that only staff are allowed to post in be sufficient to determine?

Otherwise, how do you effectively do a case by case analysis?
 
The whole mind hax argument seems to assume that the mind is physical. If the mind hax deals with the physical brain or sound, similar to the Geass in terms of sound and directly manipulating the brain in terms of, y'know, physical brains, then sure, it shouldn't affect a 4D being. But something that manipulates a non-physical mind like the move Hypnosis from Pokemon, I think 4D beings shouldn't be automatically immune.
 
4-D being would probably have also infinetely more complex minds, so i don't think 3-D mind hax would work on them
 
My personal opinion on this is that everything has limits. And that includes hax.

Saying a building level character haxes a galaxy level character, when the galaxy level character has never even been exposed to said hax and the building level character has never shown to successfully use his hax on character of that calibre, is flat out NLF.

About DB, well they have shown that having enough ki negates many (not all) haxes, and the characters who have hax in the series also have limitations in use of that hax, a good example would be Shenron.
 
I think if the Building level character is able to land their hax on that Galaxy level character, it should work, depending on what the hax was. I agree with Matt, these things should be analysed on a case-by-case basis. We can sit here and think of scenarios and examples all day, but the fact remains that we'll never be able to cover every possible example with any reasonable amount of regulations and rules.
 
if it has no resistence and the hax is good enought and if building level character has the time to use the hax, then building level character could win, just look at reinhard, a planet level that destroys almost anyone who isn't 4-D beacause of hax
 
Except Reinhard has shown to use that hax on beings of that calibre.

Would you say the Rabbit guy from DB could have turned the likes of Merged Zamasu, Golden Freeza, Buu and Beerus into carrots if he touched them?

Would you say Devilman's devilbeam would have killed all these characters if he used it?

The short answer is that "We'll never know", because they haven't shown to do it.
 
And about the thing of having an infinitely more complex mind, that seems to only apply if by "mind" you mean "brain". A mindhax that manipulates the physical brain wouldn't work on Zamasu, but if it is a mind hax that affects a non-physical mind, it should work on Zamasu, seeing as he didn't seem to get any smarter after becoming 4D. He got defeated by someone he could've speed blitzed and eventually chipped away at or maybe haxshotted, I mean.
 
Except that you don't interact with the 4D being with mind hax.

I'm not talking about beings who actively attacks your mind. I'm talking stuff like Cthulhu who mindfucks you just by looking at it (Not the best example given how Cthulhu works, but still). It doesn't matter how complex your mind is. If it still works with logic similar to a human mind, you should be affected.

Another clearer example would be a Hypothetical character: This character will make anyone who look at it completely submit to it via, say, being so attractive that anyone will fall for them. Why would being able to see things in 4-D make you immune to that?
 
Yes, none of these people have shown to resist Transmutation. And doubtful, I believe Frieza, Buu, and Merged Zamasu could survive without a heart, though Beerus would die.
 
AKM sama said:
Would you say the Rabbit guy from DB could have turned the likes of Merged Zamasu, Golden Freeza, Buu and Beerus into carrots if he touched them?

Would you say Devilman's devilbeam would have killed all these characters if he used it?

The short answer is that "We'll never know", because they haven't shown to do it.
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This is a good point.
 
I think unless we've seen that the hax doesn't work on people of a certain strength, similar to Kirby's, who cannot absorb people on his level, and much incapacitate stronger enemies like mid-bosses before being able to absorb them, then I don't see why it wouldn't work until we get to higher dimensions or High 3-A.
 
TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
I think unless we've seen that the hax doesn't work on people of a certain strength, similar to Kirby's, who cannot absorb people on his level, and much incapacitate stronger enemies like mid-bosses before being able to absorb them, then I don't see why it wouldn't work until we get to higher dimensions or High 3-A.
Click to expand...
kirby absorbs people by sucking them in his pocket universe, it's not the hax that is not working, is the sucktion that isn't strong enought
 
The whole point of hax is to go up against higher tier characters. If you say that 'hax doesn't work against significantly stronger beings' wouldn't that contradict the meaning of hax in the first place?
 
Yeah, there is a "Game mechanics" button in each game, after turning it off Kirby can absorbe anything, even your console. I lost mine this way, and I will never activate it again.
 
Aridwolverine said:
The whole point of hax is to go up against higher tier characters. If you say that 'hax doesn't work against significantly stronger beings' wouldn't that contradict the meaning of hax in the first place?
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This is a great point.
 
Like Matt said earlier, this discussion is a case-by-case sort of thing. This thread won't really go anywhere. Things like this should be discussed in whatever match they're brought up in.
 
TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
On a side note, is there a Mario discussion thread? Odyssey has a good bit of things to discuss.
Click to expand...
I agree. It has a lot of new abilities for characters. I waited for a week after release to ask if we can discuss, but no one replied.
 
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