About "stronger=hax resistant" stuff

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Cutting to the chase. I think we need to have some kind of discussion or vsbattle rule regarding hax resistance coming from superior power.

No offense to anyone of course, but, I'm personally really tired of seeing this argument come up in a vs thread to try and determine one character resists another guys hax through pure superior power when majority over and over have well pointed out why this isn't a legitimate case. Dragon Ball is a perfect example of this.

It's gotten to the point where its redundant, an annoyance, and I think we should have some sort of rule to limit this. Of course, if no one believes it is neccesary, i'll understand.

 

[PostmodernD]

I agree. Granting a hax resistance when a character has never displayed it is happening a decent amount right now. The only real exception I can think of to this is higher dimensional beings maybe being resistant to certain types of hax by their nature of being higher dimensional. Though I can think of 0 specific examples off the top of my head.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree 100%

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bumping quick to get more attention.

 

[Dienomite22]

Yea I agree, its stupid to think higher tier being should granted immunity or resistance to hax from lower tier characters just because they have a higher AP and DB.And naturally, some higher tier characters should have automatic immunity or resistance to a hax because the tier grants it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Maybe this should be highlighted for more input?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[Dark649]

Yes, i agree.

 

[Blanked]

I am little confused with Dragon ball example since Dragon ball did show being stronger allows you to resist hax...

That said i am fine with this, but i have a seriously bad feeling about future match-ups if this is "accepted".

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I can agree with most of this.

But if its the case of a Tier 10 to Tier 3-A doing it to a low 2-C, or even higher up the dimensional ladder than that, I feel it is a bit much to say this hax of theirs can affect someone infinitely more powerful than them.

 

[Kaltias]

Higher dimensional beings should still nope everything from a lower dimensional being unless proven otherwise. It's basically the equivalent of a drawing trying to attack a human

 

[Dark649]

I am little confused with Dragon ball example since Dragon ball did show being stronger allows you to resist hax...

Because Goku and Frieza unlocked said resistancies after being hit by them.

 

[Blanked]

Still only because they are strong enough, I mean what makes you say someone else who is as strong as Frieza can't do the same.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree. This needs to at least have some basis in the actual plot and feats, like with Saint Seiya and Time Stop.

It is not a 100% automatic thing.

Of course, you need to be careful of not abusing the other extreme. Saying that a Country level character can beat a Universal+ because of one hax ability is generally abusing the No Limits Fallacy / Proof by Example Fallacy.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Still only because they are strong enough, I mean what makes you say someone else who is as strong as Frieza can't do the same.

Because they haven't shown it. It's a random resistance he has, nothing more. It's not that farfetched seeing as that is extremely common in fiction.

 

[Blanked]

@Dragon Goku resisted as well... Plus Frieza says "let me show you the power of Golden Frieza" and proceeds to power up.

I am pretty sure Toppo, Vegeta and so on would resist as well as its implied that way.

That said this is a derail.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I agree. This needs to at least have some basis in the actual plot and feats, like with Saint Seiya and Time Stop.
It is not a 100% automatic thing.

Of course, you need to be careful of not abusing the other extreme. Saying that a Country level character can beat a Universal+ because of one hax ability is generally abusing the No Limits Fallacy / Proof by Example Fallacy.

This^^^

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

As such Goku has said resistance as well. Him saying that just means he is able to resist it. Doesn't immediately mean the likes of Jiren or Kefla will be able to.

 

[Dark649]

I'm sure Toppo, Vegeta and so on would resist as well as its implied that way.

Only if they are hit by that, which didn't happened.

 

[Blanked]

@Dark what i am trying to say is that in a battle that hax wouldn't help if your opponent will "adapt" to it through simple being stronger.

It implies anyone can adapt a resistance on it, by simple being strong enough.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, but only after being hit by said move.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Dark649

Thank you very much for the highlight.

 

[PaChi2]

As such Goku has said resistance as well. Him saying that just means he is able to resist it. Doesn't immediately mean the likes of Jiren or Kefla will be able to.

Jiren stares. ovo

That said, I agree with Matt's opinion here.

 

[Overlord775]

i agree too

 

[Burstchaos]

This should also work in a different way; someone who is multi-galaxy level should only be able to affect someone who is high 3-A or even 3-A, if they have shown the ability to do so. I agree that characters shouldn't get an automatic resistance to hax but someone being able to affect someone far outside of their shown ability is ridiculous, particularly if they're affecting someone infinitely above them.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I do not mind if you want to work out some kind of sensible regulation for this, but I do not know what it should say specifically. I am completely uninterested in versus threads after all, so it is not my area.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with Matt.

 

[Overlord775]

@burstchaos think it in a logical way, why would having the power to destroy a universe give you a resistence to being mind raped or to being turned in a cheeseburger or to having your soul eaten ?

 

[Damage3245]

> I agree that characters shouldn't get an automatic resistance to hax but someone being able to affect someone far outside of their shown ability is ridiculous, particularly if they're affecting someone infinitely above them.

I don't really see how this is the case. Sure in specific examples it works, like a person can't stop time and freeze a character that transcends the concept of time... but they can still stop time and freeze a character that only has the ability to destroy the universe.

Being overwhelmingly powerful by itself is not enough to grant a resistence to all varieties of 'hax'.

 

[Delta3000]

I agree.

What about characters who have hax but people claiming their hax doesn't work on comparable or stronger characters even though the limits of the hax are unknown?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Higher dimensional beings should still nope everything from a lower dimensional being unless proven otherwise. It's basically the equivalent of a drawing trying to attack a Human

A drawing is unable to attack you because it's non-sentient, not because it's restricted by the boundaries of the paper.

Even then, why would a drawing be restricted to the boundaries of the paper? The led or ink used to make the drawing is still 3-D, and the paper isn't a lower dimensional plane or anything comparable to that. Why can't the drawing just jump off the paper and try to attack the human?

This analogy really doesn't work. It's a big false-equivalence.

 

[Overlord775]

human brains can't concive true 2-D beings

 

[NeoZex6399]

Seriously? That's interesting.

 

[Kaltias]

Even if it was sentient, it wouldn't be able to do anything.

The drawing is just an approximation. I know that it isn't 2D, but it's as close as you can get. A 2D being can't move in 3D space (well not freely) because it doesn't understand how to do it. Can I move freely in 4D and run until I reach yesterday?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Doesn't change that the analogy doesn't work.

If anything, at least go with the analogy of a video game AI character trying to jump out of the screen and attack you. Because in that case the AI is actually restricted by the boundaries of something, and couldn't hope to exit the screen or perceive anything outside of it without the assistance of a special kind of programming.

Or something more simple, like a box of moths.

For the record, I'm sort of on the fence with this.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I believe you are focusing on an extremely irrelevant detail. False equivalency or not, you get the point.

 

[Dziga]

Dragon Ball characters gaining hax resistence because "lol, 2str00ng4hax" is just for plot's sake, anyone who thinks this applies to anything is just wanking.

 

[Ahegao-chan]

I am little confused with Dragon ball example since Dragon ball did show being stronger allows you to resist hax...
That said i am fine with this, but i have a seriously bad feeling about future match-ups if this is "accepted".

thats some haxs not all, point still stands

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I do get the point, I don't think higher dimensional beings should be affected by lower dimensional beings unless the latter has severe amounts of hax that can reach beyond their dimensions.

However the drawing analogy doesn't support this, as it's incapable of attacking you for a completely different reason than one that compares to lower-dimensionality. A false equivalence is a fallacy; an illogical argument. Whether it's made by someone who is on the same side as me or not, why should we just let it slide?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Even if it was sentient, it wouldn't be able to do anything.

There's nothing suggesting that.

That's why I think the box of moths or an AI character within a computer would work better as an analogy. Because in both of those cases, there's actually something suggesting that they wouldn't be able to act outside of the boundaries. Meanwhile the drawing isn't restricted by the boundaries of the paper; it's simply led being placed on it from a pencil, and the paper doesn't act as any sort of container.

Anyways, the point here is that I do support Kukui's initial proposal, and I agree that more power =/= hax resistance, but the drawing analogy is a weak comparison that doesn't support anything being made here. That's why I'm focusing on it.