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Supernova actually has a guidebook confirming it. If you disagree with any attack animation, please make a thread about it as we aren't talking about them.The real cal howard said:
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About Seismic Toss
- Thread starter Overlord775
- Start date
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- pokémon
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Not goddam everything has to be tourelly supported by everything to be accepted.Dragonmasterxyz said:
The anime and the manga show Seismic Toss as the pokemon throwin the opponent on the ground, while EVERY game shows it as throwing the opponent in the air, so it's clearly condradicted.
There's no lore about it because it's an ATTACK, heck even the legendaries pokemons don't have much lore.
Also "Gravy-fed throw" doesn't mean it's a gravity based attack, it means it derives it's power from gravity aka a fall
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we probably should
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"Not goddam everything has to be tourelly supported by everything to be accepted."
Oh, you're throwing a tantrum now. Classy. Regardless, you're right. However, in this case, the game animation is blatantly contradicted by all other sources used for this composite file.
"The anime and the manga show Seismic Toss as the pokemon throwin the opponent on the roun, while EVERY game shows it as throwing the opponent in the air, so it's clearly condradicted."
Yeah, and every anime or manga scene shows Seismic Toss as a normal throw. I mean, if we want to count how many times something is shown.
"There's no lore about it because it's an ATTACK, heck even the legendaries pokemons don't have much lore."
There is nothing about Seismic Toss that notes it as a throw from outer space. The other composite sources contradict this.
Oh, you're throwing a tantrum now. Classy. Regardless, you're right. However, in this case, the game animation is blatantly contradicted by all other sources used for this composite file.
"The anime and the manga show Seismic Toss as the pokemon throwin the opponent on the roun, while EVERY game shows it as throwing the opponent in the air, so it's clearly condradicted."
Yeah, and every anime or manga scene shows Seismic Toss as a normal throw. I mean, if we want to count how many times something is shown.
"There's no lore about it because it's an ATTACK, heck even the legendaries pokemons don't have much lore."
There is nothing about Seismic Toss that notes it as a throw from outer space. The other composite sources contradict this.
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While I'm neutral on this; doesn't Magneton have a tier low 7-B feat?.
EDiT: found it however it seems to be 8-A (unless the tiering was changed since this calc was done) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Living_Tribunal1/Magneton_heats_up_the_place
EDiT: found it however it seems to be 8-A (unless the tiering was changed since this calc was done) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Living_Tribunal1/Magneton_heats_up_the_place
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Dragonmaster seems to be the one making sense here.
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The Axiom of Virgo said:
Do you guys have links to these?GyroNutz said:
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@Dragon
The anime almost always condradicts the primary canon, to the point they often ignore type immunities, if it shows something different from the games it's almost 100% of the time just the anime not making any sense
The anime almost always condradicts the primary canon, to the point they often ignore type immunities, if it shows something different from the games it's almost 100% of the time just the anime not making any sense
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"The anime almost always condradicts the primary canon, to the point they often ignore type immunities, if it shows something different from the games it's almost 100% of the time just the anime not making any sense"
So I assume the manga does as well? Also, just because the anime has done things like Thundershock on a wet Onix or the aim for the horn Rhydon. Some contradictions doesn't make the entire source contradictory. That is a fallacious line of thought and argument. Especially when you all use this apparent "contradictory" anime as a source to get Composite feats from.
So I assume the manga does as well? Also, just because the anime has done things like Thundershock on a wet Onix or the aim for the horn Rhydon. Some contradictions doesn't make the entire source contradictory. That is a fallacious line of thought and argument. Especially when you all use this apparent "contradictory" anime as a source to get Composite feats from.
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>Except in this instance every single source outside of the games contradict this. Nothing ever supports this feat as legitimate here. We aren't just going to ignore every on screen instance of the feat out of convenience.
Except, its not out of convenience. At all Dragon. We ignore it because its simply less canon than what the primary canon dictates it to be. That is how supporting canons in general are treated here, so unless you want to make a thread to argue against this standard, that is what we are going with here. Again, we only accept what isnt contradicted by the higher up canons. It doesnt matter if "every single source" does something different because at the end of the day, it is still less canon and doesn't take priority. This is why we accept and reject feats on case by case basisis when it comes to using supporting canons.
Also, for the sake of adding to Overlords point to give it a boost, even instances where Pokemon don't use Seismic Toss they have done the same thing as what the move is described to do funny enough. Such as Wailord launching several of Ash's pokemon into earths low orbit just by releasing water. Or, funny enough, every single time Team Rocket blasts off. And the latter is hilariously consistent as it happens almost constantly. So if Pokemon are able to do what Seismic Toss is said to do, without even using the move itself, it stands to make it more believeable that they can do the same thing when actually using the move.
Except, its not out of convenience. At all Dragon. We ignore it because its simply less canon than what the primary canon dictates it to be. That is how supporting canons in general are treated here, so unless you want to make a thread to argue against this standard, that is what we are going with here. Again, we only accept what isnt contradicted by the higher up canons. It doesnt matter if "every single source" does something different because at the end of the day, it is still less canon and doesn't take priority. This is why we accept and reject feats on case by case basisis when it comes to using supporting canons.
Also, for the sake of adding to Overlords point to give it a boost, even instances where Pokemon don't use Seismic Toss they have done the same thing as what the move is described to do funny enough. Such as Wailord launching several of Ash's pokemon into earths low orbit just by releasing water. Or, funny enough, every single time Team Rocket blasts off. And the latter is hilariously consistent as it happens almost constantly. So if Pokemon are able to do what Seismic Toss is said to do, without even using the move itself, it stands to make it more believeable that they can do the same thing when actually using the move.
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To be fair, the anime has long fixed this issue Overlord. It has never conflicted type relationships since the first season with the whole Wet Onix issue and the 1st season of Pokemon at its time was known for having gag-based moments. As the seasons gotten more serious and mature, inconsistencies like these were well fixed up.Overlord775 said:
Also, everyone, please calm dow.
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I don't know if have a rule for that or if it's official but I've always that of it asOverlord775 said:
Primary: Main series games (maybe/not including Let's Go)
Secondary: Anime, Generations, Origin, Adventures
Tertiary/non-canon: everything else.
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Piplup feat. I also think that there is more of these ones, i will check out moreDragonEmperor23 said:
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I posted the Magneton calc above in my edited comment (I'm still not sure about it tho) but hypocritically even IF the seismic toss scaling is removed the middle stage mons would still likely be tier 7 correct?.
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Mays Squirtle may have one but im not entirely sure. In Battle Frontier, after barely having it in her possession, May's Squirtle used Ice Beam to turn rain clouds into snow clouds that ranged over at least an entire city.Drite77 said:
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I'll happy make a thread on this standard and I'll happily put Pokemon as the main discussion as I find the use of canon in Pokemon to be very dubious when we are talking about composite profiles.
Also, those are obvious gag scenes btw. They cannot even be used. No matter how many times shown, a gag is still a gag.
I had a longer comment but Wikia ate it...
Also, those are obvious gag scenes btw. They cannot even be used. No matter how many times shown, a gag is still a gag.
I had a longer comment but Wikia ate it...
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Wich scenes are you talking about?
Probably the "we're blasting off again" scenes as well as similar Team Rocket shenanigans.
Probably the "we're blasting off again" scenes as well as similar Team Rocket shenanigans.
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>I'll happy make a thread on this standard and I'll happily put Pokemon as the main discussion as I find the use of canon in Pokemon to be very dubious when we are talking about composite profiles.
Considering you have, in the past, have argued the exact opposite with me being in the Discussion I find this very hypocritical of you Dragon. No offense.
>Also, those are obvious gag scenes btw. They cannot even be used. No matter how many times shown, a gag is still a gag.
Tell that to every single character on this site who's ratings are accepted strictly from using gag feats and come from franchises that are FAR more gag-filled than Pokemon. And i'll happy name examples to show im not just making this up.
-High 4-C Bugs Bunny... -High 4-C Popeye...
-7-B to High 5-A, 4-C Courage the Cowardly Dog...
-Not to mention 7-B to High 5-A, 4-C Eustace Bagge, a freaking regular human...
-4-B Alex Russo...
-Low 2-C Grim...
-4-A to Low 2-C Danny Phantom
These are just the top of my head
Verses who are far, and I mean far, more of a gag than Pokemon ever is in its entire life get their gag feats accepted. Yet something far far far lower than what gets allowed in cant be accepted because "its a gag?"
Considering you have, in the past, have argued the exact opposite with me being in the Discussion I find this very hypocritical of you Dragon. No offense.
>Also, those are obvious gag scenes btw. They cannot even be used. No matter how many times shown, a gag is still a gag.
Tell that to every single character on this site who's ratings are accepted strictly from using gag feats and come from franchises that are FAR more gag-filled than Pokemon. And i'll happy name examples to show im not just making this up.
-High 4-C Bugs Bunny... -High 4-C Popeye...
-7-B to High 5-A, 4-C Courage the Cowardly Dog...
-Not to mention 7-B to High 5-A, 4-C Eustace Bagge, a freaking regular human...
-4-B Alex Russo...
-Low 2-C Grim...
-4-A to Low 2-C Danny Phantom
These are just the top of my head
Verses who are far, and I mean far, more of a gag than Pokemon ever is in its entire life get their gag feats accepted. Yet something far far far lower than what gets allowed in cant be accepted because "its a gag?"
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"Considering you have, in the past, have argued the exact opposite with me being in the Discussion I find this very hypocritical of you Dragon. No offense."
God forbid opinions change over time Kukui. Also, hypocrisy doesn't make you wrong. I would also like to see these threads you are discussing. Way to attack my character with an irrelevant point. Just like I have argued tooth and nail for Infinite Speed DA Digimon, but now disagree with it. Just like argued tooth and nail for Timemon being Immeasurable, but I now disagree. I could go on. It's less hypocrisy, and more that I've changed my opinion on the subject. But even then, hypocrisy doesn't make you wrong.
Also, two wrongs do not make a right. And yes, a gag series will use gag feats. Pokemon is not by nature a gag series however. So yes, I believe that something far lower cannot be used due to it being a gag. See most of our anime/manga franchises where we do not use gags.
God forbid opinions change over time Kukui. Also, hypocrisy doesn't make you wrong. I would also like to see these threads you are discussing. Way to attack my character with an irrelevant point. Just like I have argued tooth and nail for Infinite Speed DA Digimon, but now disagree with it. Just like argued tooth and nail for Timemon being Immeasurable, but I now disagree. I could go on. It's less hypocrisy, and more that I've changed my opinion on the subject. But even then, hypocrisy doesn't make you wrong.
Also, two wrongs do not make a right. And yes, a gag series will use gag feats. Pokemon is not by nature a gag series however. So yes, I believe that something far lower cannot be used due to it being a gag. See most of our anime/manga franchises where we do not use gags.
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Danny Phantom doesn't have a lot of gag feats. Or any at all, iirc.
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Danny Phantom's 4-A and Low 2-C doesn't come from gag feats at all.
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>God forbid opinions change over time Kukui.
Not without an actual reason for it, or else it just looks like your changing your opinion at the last second to fit your arguments narrative. Not saying you factually are, but thats what it looks like.
>I would also like to see these threads you are discussing.
The Lucario 7 thread for one. Where literally everyone, including me and you, were arguing against one perso on how we treat pokemon canon here due to its multiverse status. Again, changing opinions is of course allowed but not without having a justification to it. Otherwise its nothing but a sudden bait and switch tactic.
>Also, two wrongs do not make a right. And yes, a gag series will use gag feats. Pokemon is not by nature a gag series however. So yes, I believe that something far lower cannot be used due to it being a gag. See most of our anime/manga franchises where we do not use gags.
Two wrongs is an understatement, more like dozens of wrongs. Its not equal in any sense of the word. But more to the point, I find that to be very problematic. Why should a series where gag-feats only come up as little as possible not be acceptable, yet a series where 95% of their showings are nothing but gags get their's accepted? Thats flat out cherry picking and a double standard on huge proportions. This isnt anything like trying to upgrade a Pikachu to tier 5, much less tier 4 (I mean seriously, I can name all of the tier 4 outliers Pokemon has and they'd be much much more believeable than Tier 4 Eustace....), it's literally taking instances that are in line with what is currently accepted, yet for some reason we can't apply them.
Not without an actual reason for it, or else it just looks like your changing your opinion at the last second to fit your arguments narrative. Not saying you factually are, but thats what it looks like.
>I would also like to see these threads you are discussing.
The Lucario 7 thread for one. Where literally everyone, including me and you, were arguing against one perso on how we treat pokemon canon here due to its multiverse status. Again, changing opinions is of course allowed but not without having a justification to it. Otherwise its nothing but a sudden bait and switch tactic.
>Also, two wrongs do not make a right. And yes, a gag series will use gag feats. Pokemon is not by nature a gag series however. So yes, I believe that something far lower cannot be used due to it being a gag. See most of our anime/manga franchises where we do not use gags.
Two wrongs is an understatement, more like dozens of wrongs. Its not equal in any sense of the word. But more to the point, I find that to be very problematic. Why should a series where gag-feats only come up as little as possible not be acceptable, yet a series where 95% of their showings are nothing but gags get their's accepted? Thats flat out cherry picking and a double standard on huge proportions. This isnt anything like trying to upgrade a Pikachu to tier 5, much less tier 4 (I mean seriously, I can name all of the tier 4 outliers Pokemon has and they'd be much much more believeable than Tier 4 Eustace....), it's literally taking instances that are in line with what is currently accepted, yet for some reason we can't apply them.
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Low 2-C may doesnt, but 4-A surely does. A ghost making a star-sized setting when going to a high-school reunion like Sidney Poindexter doesnt exactly fit the standard of being the most concrete (and your talking to someone who agreed with adding this because of the explanation for why it fits). Not to mention the validitiy of the scaling from the feat in itself (like why does Poindexter himself not become tier 4 but we scale the feat to other ghosts? Thats like taking someones outlier and giving it to other people who scale to the person that is being given the outlier.)ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Even if im wrong about DP, my point still stands about gag feats. If something as ridiculous as Tier 4 Courage and Eustace can be easily accepted, or tier 2 Grim from Billy and Mandy, gag feats for non-gag based shows can be just as acceptable.
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"Not without an actual reason for it, or else it just looks like your changing your opinion at the last second to fit your arguments narrative. Not saying you factually are, but thats what it looks like."
Yeah, because you are clearly looking for a reason to vilify a person. If you cannot prove this, don't bring it up. You flat out accused me of being hypocritical, YOU have to prove this, otherwise you are making a baseless claim in order to vilify my character. Otherwise, why would you suddenly just judge my as being hypocritical when my character was not a topic of discussion?
"The Lucario 7 thread for one. Where literally everyone, including me and you, were arguing against one person on how we treat pokemon canon here due to its multiverse status. Again, changing opinions is of course allowed but not without having a justification to it. Otherwise its nothing but a sudden bait and switch tactic."
My issue with the canon has nothing to do with do with the series multiverse's canon. Especially when Darkrai itself is consistently Tier 2 across all media. I have never even argued against using a form of media at all.
"Two wrongs is an understatement, more like dozens of wrongs. Its not equal in any sense of the word. But more to the point, I find that to be very problematic. Why should a series where gag-feats only come up as little as possible not be acceptable, yet a series where 95% of their showings are nothing but gags get their's accepted? Thats flat out cherry picking and a double standard on huge proportions. This isnt anything like trying to upgrade a Pikachu to tier 5, much less tier 4 (I mean seriously, I can name all of the tier 4 outliers Pokemon has and they'd be much much more believeable than Tier 4 Eustace....), it's literally taking instances that are in line with what is currently accepted, yet for some reason we can't apply them."
In your own words, make a CRT about it, please and thank you.
Yeah, because you are clearly looking for a reason to vilify a person. If you cannot prove this, don't bring it up. You flat out accused me of being hypocritical, YOU have to prove this, otherwise you are making a baseless claim in order to vilify my character. Otherwise, why would you suddenly just judge my as being hypocritical when my character was not a topic of discussion?
"The Lucario 7 thread for one. Where literally everyone, including me and you, were arguing against one person on how we treat pokemon canon here due to its multiverse status. Again, changing opinions is of course allowed but not without having a justification to it. Otherwise its nothing but a sudden bait and switch tactic."
My issue with the canon has nothing to do with do with the series multiverse's canon. Especially when Darkrai itself is consistently Tier 2 across all media. I have never even argued against using a form of media at all.
"Two wrongs is an understatement, more like dozens of wrongs. Its not equal in any sense of the word. But more to the point, I find that to be very problematic. Why should a series where gag-feats only come up as little as possible not be acceptable, yet a series where 95% of their showings are nothing but gags get their's accepted? Thats flat out cherry picking and a double standard on huge proportions. This isnt anything like trying to upgrade a Pikachu to tier 5, much less tier 4 (I mean seriously, I can name all of the tier 4 outliers Pokemon has and they'd be much much more believeable than Tier 4 Eustace....), it's literally taking instances that are in line with what is currently accepted, yet for some reason we can't apply them."
In your own words, make a CRT about it, please and thank you.
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So this is going nowhere... I'm guessing we're in a circular argument now?.
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True plus I'll prefer we stick to the subject at hand.Drite77 said:
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@ProfessorKukui4Life Sidney didn't create the realm, he just lives in it.
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>Yeah, because you are clearly looking for a reason to vilify a person. If you cannot prove this, don't bring it up. You flat out accused me of being hypocritical, YOU have to prove this, otherwise you are making a baseless claim in order to vilify my character.
"I'll happy make a thread on this standard and I'll happily put Pokemo as the main discussion as I find the use of canon in Pokemon to be very dubious when we are talking about composite profiles."
^These are your exact words Dragon. You flat out said here that "I find the use of canon in Pokemon to be very dubious" which directly contradicts an earlier time where your thoughts on it were the exact opposite. That they weren't dubious at all. Looking to villify? Im not looking to do anything except call out a double standard when I see one and thats exactly what you were doing here. One moment, you argued in support of Pokemon canon being treated like this, and now later you're making a 180 for the sake of this current argument. Not to mention, saying "i'll happily put Pokemon as the main discussion" is making this look much more like you making the discussion solely to tackle into pokemons use of supporting canon specifically instead of the wikia's generalized standard on how we apply it to all verses.
Sorry if this is coming off as rude, but this is how exactly im seeing this pattern to be Dragon.
"I'll happy make a thread on this standard and I'll happily put Pokemo as the main discussion as I find the use of canon in Pokemon to be very dubious when we are talking about composite profiles."
^These are your exact words Dragon. You flat out said here that "I find the use of canon in Pokemon to be very dubious" which directly contradicts an earlier time where your thoughts on it were the exact opposite. That they weren't dubious at all. Looking to villify? Im not looking to do anything except call out a double standard when I see one and thats exactly what you were doing here. One moment, you argued in support of Pokemon canon being treated like this, and now later you're making a 180 for the sake of this current argument. Not to mention, saying "i'll happily put Pokemon as the main discussion" is making this look much more like you making the discussion solely to tackle into pokemons use of supporting canon specifically instead of the wikia's generalized standard on how we apply it to all verses.
Sorry if this is coming off as rude, but this is how exactly im seeing this pattern to be Dragon.
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Then who did?Lord Griffin himself said them creating the realms is the exact reason why they were able to reach tier 4 to begin with.ShadowWarrior1999 said:
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Reading where this is going
Guys just stop...
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Then who did?Lord Griffin himself said them creating the realms is the exact reason why they were able to reach tier 4 to begin with.
Ask him then.
Ask him then.
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