About Novel Kars and Dio

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

High Universe level: Characters who have an infinite degree of 3-dimensional power. Alternately 4-dimensional power that is shown as completely qualitatively superior to 3-Dimensional beings, but is less than universal in scale. Or that allows them to create large parts of a universal continuum. Take note that 4-D power should logically always be superior to countably infinite 3-D power, so characters within this tier are not necessarily comparable. Also take note that we consider most small scale time-space abilities as hax, not as AP.

Universe level+: ("Low 2-C") This is for characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of a single universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.

Multiverse level+: Characters who can destroy and/or create a countably infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums. Take note that the universes are technically lined up along a 5-dimensional axis, but that their geometrical size still amounts to 0 within this scale.

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From the tiering system. Love Train nor Infinite Rotation qualifies for any of the above High 3-A.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Destroying an infinite amount of universes would require an infinite amount of 4-dimensional power.

If you can make up or destroy part of a spacetime continuum, big or small, that is High 3-A. Multiplying that by infinity would still get you a feat on par with destroying an infinite amount of universes, much like how destroying an infinite amount of galaxies ultimately grants the same ranking as destroying an infinite amount of planets; they're both feats displaying an infinite amount of 3-dimensional power.

200 pounds of feathers weighs just as much as 200 pounds of steel. Multiplying that by infinity won't change the equation. That's the logic I'm using here.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well, according to the explanation in the tiering system, if it's not universal in scale, it's not going above High 3-A. Neither Love Train or Infinite Rotation are universal in scale.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

It is going to transcend High 3-A if it's multiplied by infinity. High 3-A is finite 4-D, so an infinite amout of 4-D power is obviously not going to be High 3-A.

Anyways it just says that the higher end of High 3-A refers to an amount of 4-dimensional power that is less than universal in scale. Breaking through an infinite amount of dimensional barriers would mean multiplying that by infinity. Multiplying that by infinity would still mean an infinite amount of 4-dimensional power (which is what would be required to destroy an infinite amount universes), regardless of how small the amount of 4-dimensional power is.

Of course this is all assuming that Love Train has an infinite amount of dimensional barriers, which you would need a degree of High 3-A power to break through each one. If it is true that it possesses infinite dimensional barriers, which means High 3-A times infinity, then the 2-A ranking should stay.

200 pounds of feathers weighs just as much as 200 pounds of steel. Multiplying that by infinity won't change the equation. That's the logic I'm using here.

 

[Walking_Strawman]

There are universes in the light, I don't see how you would deny them being universal in scale.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Walking

Except that Weekly posted scans that says otherwise.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

If it truly is a finite amount of dimensional barriers it definitely wouldn't count for 2-A. Otherwise the 2-A ranking should stay.

Regardless I would like to get back on the topic of Jorge Joestar.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nowhere is it stated to be an infinite amount of barriers, only barrier with a gateway to infinite parallel universes

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Alright then. So if that's true then High 3-A it is.

However I would like to get back on the topic of JORGE JOESTAR if we haven't concluded everything yet.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im still woking on the novel so if Lephyr has anything to add you'd have to ask him

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Arbitrary


This is the only instance I remember of Kars actively using one of his humanoid stands to actually inflict damage. White Snake "punched DIO and made him stagger".

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"Mind Manipulation Resistance stems from the fact Whitesnake has the power to remove memory (mind) discs. At one point within the story Pucci attacks Kars and removes his memory disc, yet opposed to a single disc falling out and Kars being knocked out due to his mind being removed, Pucci is met with a waterfall of mind discs opposed to the one he should have, Kars is uneffected by this. The implications wthn this scene imply that Kars has numerous mind discs. Potentially one for each species on earth. Also scaling from Joji Joestar."

There is also this thing that I don't agree with Kars profile. While yes, the waterfall of mind discs is correct, that part about having "one for each species on earth"... Is simply not true. The only thing that implies this is that, while he was slamming stands discs into DIO, he asked DIO if he could withstand "the limit of the world". Not only is this vague, but he says this while referring to stand discs, not mind. And don't even get me started on scaling abilities from other characters.

 

[Walking_Strawman]

Anyway, are we gonna be doing the Love Train thing on another post?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So is a single disk equivalent to one 'mind'?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Yeah, @Ovens.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

It kinda depends? The Pucci's discs are vague enough because of the difference of Jotaro and Weather's case. One being comatosed, likely because of removal of mind, and one just suffered amnesia? Inconsistent to say the least.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Reinhard

That's in the manga. In the Novel it's literally taking out your mind, and the only two characters that withstood that are Joji and Kars.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm still curious about Beyond. So far, all that's been shown is a discussion of what Beyond is, and it's basically the author himself. Are there any more points in the story where Beyond is involved?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I'm still trying to gather all the scans about Beyond.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

@Arbitrary

This is the only instance I remember of Kars actively using one of his humanoid stands to actually inflict damage. White Snake "punched DIO and made him stagger".

If DIO in this novel scales to Kars then Whitesnake should scale via being able to hurt DIO.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

DIO definitively scales to Kars. They were 100% equal. To the point that they could one-shot the other with a single punch.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Guess Das Boot ain't the only one with 6-B stats.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Shouldn't most of his other stands be comparable to Whitesnake?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Not really, no. Das Boots and Whitesnake are the only ones with feats. The others simply use their abilities which are mostly hax (except the sand one, that managed to fuse with all the sand in Mars).

 

[The_Everlasting]

So, what's the conclusion here, so far?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Nova

• Get rid of resistance to willpower manipulation and acausality from DIO's and Kars' profile

• Get rid of infinite speed

• Both downgraded to 6-B

• Getting rid of Kars' resistance to menger sponge

Edit: Oh, and Kars' disembodied soul thing would have to go, too.

Adding to that;

• Upgrade White Snake key to 6-B

• Get rid of the note in Kars' profile that states he has a mind for everyone on Earth (though the resistance to mindhax can be kept)

Edit:

• Getting rid of Low 2-C D4C

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also add in Funny not being 2-A

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think that should be dealt with in another thread, since it involves stuff outside JORGE JOESTAR, which is what this thread is about.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ah, forgot about this. What do you guys think? Limited time manip for Joji and/or George if we make his profile.

 

[DodoNova2]

>Just for fun, do not attack me OvO

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Joji should also be included a key with White Snake

, with a note in his profile that states he can only use one stand per battle and the op should specify which one he is using. That said... Joji didn't used White Snake in the story, so I don't know if it should scale to the original one or what.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If he has next to no feats of using Whitesnake it should probably be a non-factor in VS threads. Like, you can mention it in his powers and abilities section that he has Whitesnake, but but a note at the bottom of the profile stating that he has no feats with it.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

>Just for fun, do not attack me OvO

A N G E W R R R Y Y Y Y Y

 

[DodoNova2]

Sooo How About HA Dio Tier?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

This is not the thread for that. Though I don't recall any changes to him was to be made at the moment. This thread was made to discuss the JORGE JOESTAR novel.

 

[DodoNova2]

I see, Somebody redirect him here

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I believe the tier itself is a-ok. Some powers, tho, are a bit wank. But we should talk about that in another thread. This one it's pretty lenghty, and it's main topic (Dio and Novel Kars) has been dealt with.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Sir I will be going over HA Dio at some point

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ah, so a future thread then. Also, how is your progress with the novel? The sooner we get things sorted, the sooner we can commence the Kars threads.

 

[Jayslice]

Well this was interesting.