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About Celestialsapiens Existence Erasure

Also Azmuth knows all the aliens in the Omnitrix, why would he say that Alien X can do anything if there is one alien in the Omnitrix that can do something Alien X can't and especially if it's an Alien with multiversal EE? Sure this might mean that we'd have to give Alien X the powers of everyone in the Omnitrix but I am not opposed to that.
 
Servantis mentions the possibility of Ben turning into a celestasapian, a species known for their wide scale reality warping abilities, and then immediately follows it by saying he could erase everything from existence. It's a classic situation of stating a fact, and then emphasizing its implications, for example, me saying "I've heard tom is trained in karate, that man could destroy me", I clearly mean his karate skills specifically allows him to take me out, not that he is trained in karate and separately has a random method to defeat me badly. The idea that Servantis's celestualsapien mention had no relevance to the "erase everything" statement is just a very abnormal way of looking at things, and not at all sound in my opinion.

And this thing about "perhaps", it just means Ben has many aliens he can turn into, so it's not certain he would into a celestialsapien, not that Servantis didn't know about the Alien X transformation

The statement is pretty clear cut honestly, and it requires someone to look at in an extremely unintuitive way to make it not about Alien X

As for Servantis overhyping Alien X because of his feats, that's just inserting headcanon into the story. Unless there are actual context clues indicating that Servantis might have ended up overestimating Alien X because of the latter's status, it makes no sense to use this premise as a fact
 
The issue is that Servantis's statement, context wise, is not the same thing as what your example is supposed to mean. "Tom" is said to be able to destroy "you" specifically because he trained in Karate, making the statement specifically becuase of Tom and what he's capable of.

Servantis's "Ben could one day wish everything of existence" statement isn't made with having him specifically use a Celestialsapien in mind, and the fact he says "perhaps" is supposed to signify him not specifically referring to a Celestialsapien's abilities when saying that. All he's saying is that Ben can possibly become a Celestialsapien. NOT that Ben could wish existence away because of him becoming a Celestialsapien. But we're supposed to automatically take this as him being that specific all because Celestialsapien and "one day wish everything out of existence" are being used in the same sentence?

Had this been for any other verse to get E.E., we would've rejected this proposal on the spot (and im not the only one who shares this view).
 
Servantis' thinking goes like this:

If Celestialsapien DNA in Omnitrix:

Then: take him out because he can erase all of existence

Else: Take him down because of To'Kustar DNA or other aliens.
 
>All he's saying is that Ben can possibly become a Celestialsapien. NOT that Ben could wish existence away because of him becoming a Celestialsapien.

I don't know if this is a joke or something, there is no need for him to say "because of him" to understand his shit, he saied that BEN perhaps can become a celestialsapien and than he saied he can wish everything out of existence if ben had this kinds of form(a celestialsapien) that's what he meant And if he was talking about Alien y then this Alien y would get EE On a Multiversal scale and Alien x scales above him that's all, this was just the most annoying thread that you've Made in my life you are just wasting our time because this
 
Its not a joke because you need evidence to be that specific in order for it to get passed. No other verse would ever get an ability rated that high for something so vague, Why it suddenly wouldn't be needed here is whats absurd. You want Celestialsapiens to be given existence erasure for this statement, then prove Servantis's statement specifically had them in mind. Not just because they were mentioned in the same instance.
 
It seems that you don't understand, servantis saied that ben Can PERHAPS turn into a celestialsapien, after that he saied he can wish everything out of existence and this if Ben has this Knid of forms (A celestialsapien forme ) also again even if he was talking about Alien y than this Alien y would get EE on a Multiversal scale and Alien x scale above him with possibly also EE
 
Just the previous episode, Universe VS Tennyson, had Celestialsapiens about to re-erase the universe as it originally was by the Anihilarg. Everyone, including Servantis, saw the trial.
 
This universe has a lot of powerful warriors, perhaps even a God of Destruction, before you know it you end up erased from existence. This would get accepted as well to give GoD's EE if this where their only statement.
 
Yeah and we already agreed that the Anihilaarg should get EE in the Alien X thread but if you want I can make yet another thread for that.
 
The statements are formatted exactly the same way

"I've heard tom is trained in karate, that man could destroy me"

Vs

"he can turn into a Tokust'ar or pehaps even a Celestialsapien, this grimy child could one day just wish everything out of existence."

My statement doesn't specifically mention him using karate, any more than the servantis statement mentions a celestialsapuen being able to wish things out of existence

Him saying "or perhaps a celestialsapien" introduces the idea of ben turning into a celestialsapian instead of tokust'ar, which he follows by saying he could wish things out of existence, that's all there is to this statement, perhaps doesn't indicate an uncertainty in what Alien has this ability Servantis that brought up, just whether Ben would use Alien X in the first place

Honestly this all seems pretty obvious to me, so the problems regarding what Servantus means is baffling
 
Greenshifter said:
Yeah and we already agreed that the Anihilaarg should get EE in the Alien X thread but if you want I can make yet another thread for that.
Click to expand...
I really think that this Thread should be closed everything is pretty much clear and Also a waste of time, @kuki dosn't understand anything about what servantis saied while even a child of 5 years old can immediately understand what servantis was saying, servantis was just like that :

If ben has a celestialsapien forme than he can wish everything out of existence if Ben does have this Knid of forms
 
Well we're already going in circles 5 times at this point... I normally don't like threads getting closed down fast, but I don't think there's anything left to discuss.
 
"No other verse would ever get an ability rated that high for something so vague, Why it suddenly wouldn't be needed here is whats absurd. "

There's nothing vague here, "wish things out of existence" is clear cut EE, and basic reading comprehension shows that Servantis was talking about celestialsapians. Things are far simpler than you're making it out to be
 
Greenshifter said:
Well we're already going in circles 5 times at this point... I normally don't like threads getting closed down fast, but I don't think there's anything left to discuss.
Click to expand...
I also don't like this kinds of things but unfortunately there is nothing left to do here we've gived to @kuki a chance to express his points but unfortunately they are all the same, Also it dosn't matter if servantis was taking about an other species since they would still be weaker than Alien x which it still an extra justification about Alien x begin 2-B and having EE let's just close this thread its a waste of time nothing more
 
We should perhaps also add in the fact that WOG also says Alien X can the destroy the entire cosmos. Every alien in the universe except for Celestialsapiens were destroyed by the Anihilaarg, so how does it remotely make any sense for some alien other than Alien X being capable of erasing the entire cosmos?

>"besides alien x being the most powerful of bens aliens doesnt mean they cant have something better than hin. we have many verses here where god tiers of hteir verses lack what weaker people themselves have

So we should ignore ALL statements where Alien X is stated to be the most powerful alien/ being, because according to your baseless headcanon there is a chance an alien might be stronger than Alien X? We should just stop using powerscaling altogether in Ben 10?

It's so funny how we never do this for series like Dragon Ball, in what series is there a God tier who is stated to have the most powerful AP in the series multiple times by reliable characters and WOG, with 0 evidence suggesting this isnt the case yet still has his AP rated as lower than a weaker character's AP? A god tier of a verse lacking what weaker characters have is not at all the same as a God tier having weaker AP than a weaker character, that is a false equivalence.. If Alien Xv is stated to have the most powerful AP, then obviously his AP most be more powerful than any other AP, this is just common sense saying otherwise is going against Occam's razor and the most basic common sense.
 
I'd also like to reiterate that Starbeard and his posse are all but confirmed to be capable of EE.

How else were they going to return an entire universe back to nothing if the Galactic Gladiator had won?
 
Isn't the ability to destroy something a level where it doesn't exist a standard thing for anything Low 2-C?

Like, the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C is almost always the character also destroying the temporal axis, which is a fancy way of saying all past and future versions of the reality are gone, too.

So, like, wouldn't any Low 2-C's destruction of the universe count as existence erasure by those standards?
 
The statement is that he would,"wish everything out of existence" which in particular seems to imply EE. I don't think low 2-C destruction alone qualifies
 
In a sense you're right but the Anihilaarg was the thing which created the universe and it was also it's undoing and that's probably why the Anihilaarg is considered low 2-C instead of 3-A in the first place and thus implies EE since it would return to nothing. Add in Ben retconning certain stuff by recreating the universe but the past and certain alternate timelines being the way they were before the retcon, while some stuff in the past does appear to be changed but this might be due to flashbacks and thus not the actual way the events went in the past and then... you get a massive headache.
 
And a run off sentence, as hypocritical as me complaining about grammar is.

Anyways, all the statements seem way too vague when the character's AP alone can achieve what the supposed hax would. I feel it would need more proof the that wording to be accepted as EE.
 
Him "wishing" things out of existence, implies it's reality warping rather than simple AP. I think the wording is clear cut enough for EE
 
And I disagree. He has the AP to achieve that casually at will, so if he wished it then he could make it happen without the slightest bit of effort regardless.
 
His AP is thought based anyways, so he could just think to make the destruction happen.
 
But the past isn't gone with low 2-C destruction in Ben 10. (Also that was me going all Professor Paradox on time travel in Ben 10 and logical inconsistencies, my apologies)
 
Greenshifter said:
But the past isn't gone with low 2-C destruction in Ben 10. (Also that was me going all Professor Paradox on time travel in Ben 10 and logical inconsistencies, my apologies)
Click to expand...
Then... it's not Low 2-C destruction, because destroying the time axis is the whole deal.
 
Time to downgrade Alien X to 3-A everyone

Doesn't Zeno do the exact same thing with Future Trunks' timeline and they still manage to go back in time?
 
No, Trunks' timeline is a wholly different timeline, which is why changing the past did nothing to his life or him.
 
that is right, Zeno used existance erausre to destroy the 12 universes in Trunks' timeline, yet Whis was still perfectly capable of going back in time to before Zeno destroyed it. Zeno's existance erasure is still treated as 2-C despite him not destroying all of the time axis.
 
Then I activate my trap card: Starbeard: Ben Tennyson. Did you think you would escape our notice when you utilized your Celestialsapien form, Alien X, to recreate the entire universe and everything in it?

They mention the entire universe and everything in it, implying low 2-C destruction otherwise they wouldn't differentiate.

But it gets better:

Ben: Disappointment?! That's the universe! It's everything I know! It's everything there is!

Ben knows about several alternate dimensions such as The Null Void and Ledgerdomain and those 2 are generally considered part of the universe with the former possibly being infinite and made by The Galvan but that might have been retconned.

So this gives us a 2-C Anihilaarg that doesn't erase the past, have fun trying to figure that one out.

Unless we consider Ben 10 a macrocosm but the Null Void can be used to travel between Rex's universe and Ben's universe. There is also a statement of there being infinite alternate dimensions within said crossover and there is also Computro who is imprisoned in Dimension 12 which is timeless and universe sized and since this is established in Ultimate Alien it's not an alternate timeline.
 
The map of infinity is repeatedly stated to be spread across the universe, one of those places being in Ledgerdomain. Ledgerdomain is stated and shown to be a completely seperate dimension, with its own flow of time even. Kevin and Ben knows of the Null Void, also a paralel dimension and Ledgerdomain yet still said " the universe is everything there is" .. Kevin has been in the Null Void for years so it's not like he forgot about it...
 
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