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First I'd like you to explain to me why Dimentio does have multiversal striking strength.
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About Celestialsapiens Existence Erasure
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
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- #122
I addressed Kevins statement that it shouldnt be taken literally as an ability. In that context thats just Kevin being a literal bug compared to anything a celestialsapien does and by being astronomically weaker, Celestialsapiens would instantly destroy him.
However, read my previous reply Badrimoine:
However, read my previous reply Badrimoine:
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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And another thread branches and another thread branches and another branches from this (btw I was gonna do this anyways so this is pretty independent of whatever status quo you are proposing)
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Okey fine but what's your thoughts about this video? : https://youtu.be/p1UWUdpeK18 2 at 2:37 dosn't this prove anything about Alien x possibly having EE? without mentioning the servantis statement? I mean they were going to destroy Professor paradox and I don't see how they can de that without EE
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Professor Paradox, physically, is fodder compared to many aliens far weaker than a Celestialsapien. Why would destroying him mean EE?
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Isn't it pretty hard not to destroy him via EE, I mean they can put him on fire sure but that seemed a very imminent threat, AP is pretty impossible since he is already inside the pocket dimension.
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And how they would destroy him without EE? Especially professor paradox was inside Alien x body
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By just straight up destroying him? Again, why would they need existence erasure to get rid of Paradox? You havent answered that.
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Because for me its the Only way for them to destroy him I mean professor paradox was inside Alien x body so its impossible for Alien x to use AP against paradox since he was inside Alien x body so the only way to destroy paradox is with EE
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What? Why does being inside of Alien X mean they cant destroy him with a regular attack? Paradox is literally no where remotely close to as strong as a Celestialsapien.
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All right fine, their power comes from within their pocket dimension so I guess a random burst of power could kill him.
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And how they can exactly destroy him with a regular Attack while he is inside Alien x body??ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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By just destroying him?? He's literally within Bellicus and Serena's domain, if anything its even easier for them to destroy him right then and there.
Being inside Alien X doesn't give you protection from being destroyed all of a sudden.
Being inside Alien X doesn't give you protection from being destroyed all of a sudden.
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But still How they can destroy him??? I mean if someone was inside beerus body than how he would destroy him? With Kamehameha? I mean it's obvious with hakai
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That argument literally makes no sense, unless your saying Beerus is going to kill himself with Hakai.
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Hmmm okey and what about azmuth statement for Alien x begin able to do anything? Dosn't this mean Alien x does have the greatest hax and abilityes in the multiverse?
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I addressed that. It takes much more evidence than that to give characters all abilities from people in a respective verse. It's not meant to be taken literally.
But, again, I said im willing to drop this argument against Servantis and let celestialsapiens be 2-B with the existence erasure they have from this statement. My only main concern is that it doesn't scale to their individual statistics.
But, again, I said im willing to drop this argument against Servantis and let celestialsapiens be 2-B with the existence erasure they have from this statement. My only main concern is that it doesn't scale to their individual statistics.
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@Kukui Could you explain what you mean by individual statistics please?
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Can't Ben kill Professor Paradox by going back to 1950's in Los Soledad, where Paradox experiment took place and prevert it from happening. Similarly how Ben prevented his Assistant from getting sucked into the portal.
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Technically yes i think, since he was scared of that happening when he was first introducedDemonicDude said:
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>I addressed that. It takes much more evidence than that to give characters all abilities from people in a respective verse. It's not meant to be taken literally.
-I don't understand, do you mean that Azmuth statement can't be used as an evidence for alien x having the greatest hax and abilityes in the multiverse? Can you explain with simple words please
-I don't understand, do you mean that Azmuth statement can't be used as an evidence for alien x having the greatest hax and abilityes in the multiverse? Can you explain with simple words please
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Basically I'll agree with Celestialsapiens being 2-B with Existence Erasure, but only with Existence Erasure.EpicCookie12342 said:
Their attack potency, durability, striking strength, lifting strength, etc wouldn't scale. They'd be Low 2-C with their actual strength, 2-B with existence erasure.
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I agree with ProfessorKukui, destroying Paradox does in no way require EE, in the same way we dont assume every Dragon Ball character has EE for being able to destroy a character, the planet , the universeetc. Even if Paradox had the same durability as Celestialsapien and could regenerate from smoke, it would still not require EE to completely destroy him, for the same reason the Genki Dama doesnt have EE for destroying Kid Buu who can regenerate from literal smoke.
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So this thread should be closed than?since you agree about Alien x begin 2-B with EE
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That doesn't really make sense, since Alien X isn't 2-B because he was said to have 2-B existence erasure, he is 2-B from scaling above the Chrono Navigator and Chronosapien Time Bomb, this was just used as extra justification. Also originally I didn't even think about that statement being used to help justify Alien X being 2-B, until Greenshifter pointed it out. As well as the fact that you're like the only one besides The Everlasting apparently that doesn't read the statement correctly and you keep on bringing the same arguements that aren't leading anywhere. And I know you probably didn't mean what you just typed to be rude, but it kind of comes off that way, like we have to apply to your terms in order for you to agree with something that everyone already agrees on because you interpret and view the statement differently. If what you said is the case for you to agree then that is very unlikely to happen.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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@Badrimoine2019 we are not done yet, you need to stop being so eager to close threads man.
>False equivalance again, and context is being flat out ignored to make them seem the same when they aren't. It being an explosion proves there's actual Low 2-C power behind it and isn't just some hax ability.
Hmm, so hax abilities can't be 2-C? Guess Zeno isn't 2-C for having literal multiversal EE, guess all those characters with universal creation feats like Super Shenron arent 2-C. Bill surviving the destruction is something that is never once stated or implied, it's simply an assumption people made( which I dont disagree tbf).
The Navigator doesnt need to destroy anything immediately for the same reason Rimuru Tempest is 2-B despite taking "countless years" to create thousands of universes and Enrico Pucci and Novel Kars are both 2-C despite taking literally infinite time to destroy the universe. Creating/destroying the entirety of a universe' spacetime requires you to destroy an infinite 4-D area, how much time it takes to do that is irrelevant.
Paradox heavily implies at the end of the episode that they dont have much time left before all of existance would be destroyed, it's not something that would happen gradually, hence why he says "all of existance" and not something like "this universe, then the rest of existance"
Eon using the Navigator to create storms had 0 affect on the Navigator's portals thus 0 affect on how quickly it would destroy existance. The timelines anchored together aka the portals created by the Navigator are exactly what is causing the destruction of all of existance, they would be the last thing to be destroyed along with everything else. Never said a thing about The Navigator's striking strength or lifting strength , not sure how I conveintly forgot anything? Why would I mention that in the first place???
>False equivalance again, and context is being flat out ignored to make them seem the same when they aren't. It being an explosion proves there's actual Low 2-C power behind it and isn't just some hax ability.
Hmm, so hax abilities can't be 2-C? Guess Zeno isn't 2-C for having literal multiversal EE, guess all those characters with universal creation feats like Super Shenron arent 2-C. Bill surviving the destruction is something that is never once stated or implied, it's simply an assumption people made( which I dont disagree tbf).
The Navigator doesnt need to destroy anything immediately for the same reason Rimuru Tempest is 2-B despite taking "countless years" to create thousands of universes and Enrico Pucci and Novel Kars are both 2-C despite taking literally infinite time to destroy the universe. Creating/destroying the entirety of a universe' spacetime requires you to destroy an infinite 4-D area, how much time it takes to do that is irrelevant.
Paradox heavily implies at the end of the episode that they dont have much time left before all of existance would be destroyed, it's not something that would happen gradually, hence why he says "all of existance" and not something like "this universe, then the rest of existance"
Eon using the Navigator to create storms had 0 affect on the Navigator's portals thus 0 affect on how quickly it would destroy existance. The timelines anchored together aka the portals created by the Navigator are exactly what is causing the destruction of all of existance, they would be the last thing to be destroyed along with everything else. Never said a thing about The Navigator's striking strength or lifting strength , not sure how I conveintly forgot anything? Why would I mention that in the first place???
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The same arguements Kukui keeps making
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Why didn't Kukui agreed About alien x having EE because of servantis statement?EpicCookie12342 said:
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IDK but he wants Alien X to be low 2-C with only his EE at 2-BBadrimoine2019 said:
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@crabwhale
whether Alien X' EE scales to his durability, and whether the Navigator is 2-B or not. ProfessorKukui is arguing it isnt 2-B or anything close, because it doesnt make an explosion and because it's only destroying the cosmos through hax and not AP. I'm arguing that other characters, such as Zeno and SUper Shenron, have 2-C AP despite only using hax. He's also arguing that since the Navigator didnt destroy anything immediately, it isn't multiversal.
Also whether the Navigator scales to Alien X or not.
whether Alien X' EE scales to his durability, and whether the Navigator is 2-B or not. ProfessorKukui is arguing it isnt 2-B or anything close, because it doesnt make an explosion and because it's only destroying the cosmos through hax and not AP. I'm arguing that other characters, such as Zeno and SUper Shenron, have 2-C AP despite only using hax. He's also arguing that since the Navigator didnt destroy anything immediately, it isn't multiversal.
Also whether the Navigator scales to Alien X or not.
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>So literally becoming the universe, and becoming the universe' law and order, having literal universal reality warping and being non-corporeal is not hax? Umm, what? Affecting space-time is not something exclusive of non-hax abilities, Zeno and Super Shenron' AP are 2-C through pure hax and nothing else.
Dude, you knew exactly I said here. Stop nitpicking. Becoming the universe isnt just hax. It counts towards your attack potency. Do you gain hax for becoming the universe? Yeah. But does becoming the universe ONLY mean its hax? Absolutely not.
>Hmm, so hax abilities can't be 2-C?
Can you seriously stop putting words in my mouth? I never said this...
>Guess Zeno isn't 2-C for having literal multiversal EE, guess all those characters with universal creation feats like Super Shenron arent 2-C.
Zeno isn't 2-C strictly because of Erasure, his AP is 2-C as well. He destroyed the multiverse in Trunks's timeline with a pure clear cut energy attack and not a hax ability to erase them. And universal creation has literally nothing to do with this discussion at all.
> Bill surviving the destruction is something that is never once stated or implied, it's simply an assumption people made( which I dont disagree tbf).
Its listed on his page, so yeah it is. If you disagree, make a thread to get rid of it.
>The Navigator doesnt need to destroy anything immediately for the same reason Enrico Pucci and Novel Kars are both 2-C despite taking literally infinite time to destroy the universe.
Uh, are you reading the same thing I am? Neither Enrico Pucci or Kars (JORGE JOESTAR) are 2-C first of all. Theyre Low 2-C, and through a hax that resets the universe that isnt scaled to them. Their individual stats cap at 8-C....
>estroying the entirety of a universe' spacetime requires you to destroy an infinite 4-D area, how much time it takes to do that is irrelevant.
That only become relevant once you hit 2-A as we'd be talking about infinite universes, which no matter how finite time is required, would still be a 2-A feat. But in this case, the number of universes is finite. So it is absolutely relevant as not destroying a finite Multiverse immediately or even quickly shows you lack the power to use a Multiversal attack in a single instance. Thus, you arent actually Multiversal.
>Paradox heavily implies at the end of the episode that they dont have much time left before all of existance would be destroyed, it's not something that would happen gradually, hence why he says "all of existance" and not something like "this universe, then the rest of existance"
Irrelevant when the on-screen portrayls support nothing like that at all. The fact that both Bens timelines were literally anchored together by the Navigator and nothing as far as the destruction of space-time was happening to either timeline proves the Navigator wasn't quickly mustering up actual 2-B power to end the Multiverse in a manner thats required for even the typical 2-B.
>The timelines anchored together aka the portals created by the Navigator are exactly what is causing the destruction of all of existance, they would be the last thing to be destroyed along with everything else.
This doesnt help you. If anything, this shows even more the Navigator isn't actually 2-B but only through a chain reaction drawn out process.
>Never said a thing about The Navigator's striking strength or lifting strength
...And neither did I. I said Bills striking and lifting strength.
Dude, you knew exactly I said here. Stop nitpicking. Becoming the universe isnt just hax. It counts towards your attack potency. Do you gain hax for becoming the universe? Yeah. But does becoming the universe ONLY mean its hax? Absolutely not.
>Hmm, so hax abilities can't be 2-C?
Can you seriously stop putting words in my mouth? I never said this...
>Guess Zeno isn't 2-C for having literal multiversal EE, guess all those characters with universal creation feats like Super Shenron arent 2-C.
Zeno isn't 2-C strictly because of Erasure, his AP is 2-C as well. He destroyed the multiverse in Trunks's timeline with a pure clear cut energy attack and not a hax ability to erase them. And universal creation has literally nothing to do with this discussion at all.
> Bill surviving the destruction is something that is never once stated or implied, it's simply an assumption people made( which I dont disagree tbf).
Its listed on his page, so yeah it is. If you disagree, make a thread to get rid of it.
>The Navigator doesnt need to destroy anything immediately for the same reason Enrico Pucci and Novel Kars are both 2-C despite taking literally infinite time to destroy the universe.
Uh, are you reading the same thing I am? Neither Enrico Pucci or Kars (JORGE JOESTAR) are 2-C first of all. Theyre Low 2-C, and through a hax that resets the universe that isnt scaled to them. Their individual stats cap at 8-C....
>estroying the entirety of a universe' spacetime requires you to destroy an infinite 4-D area, how much time it takes to do that is irrelevant.
That only become relevant once you hit 2-A as we'd be talking about infinite universes, which no matter how finite time is required, would still be a 2-A feat. But in this case, the number of universes is finite. So it is absolutely relevant as not destroying a finite Multiverse immediately or even quickly shows you lack the power to use a Multiversal attack in a single instance. Thus, you arent actually Multiversal.
>Paradox heavily implies at the end of the episode that they dont have much time left before all of existance would be destroyed, it's not something that would happen gradually, hence why he says "all of existance" and not something like "this universe, then the rest of existance"
Irrelevant when the on-screen portrayls support nothing like that at all. The fact that both Bens timelines were literally anchored together by the Navigator and nothing as far as the destruction of space-time was happening to either timeline proves the Navigator wasn't quickly mustering up actual 2-B power to end the Multiverse in a manner thats required for even the typical 2-B.
>The timelines anchored together aka the portals created by the Navigator are exactly what is causing the destruction of all of existance, they would be the last thing to be destroyed along with everything else.
This doesnt help you. If anything, this shows even more the Navigator isn't actually 2-B but only through a chain reaction drawn out process.
>Never said a thing about The Navigator's striking strength or lifting strength
...And neither did I. I said Bills striking and lifting strength.
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>That doesn't really make sense, since Alien X isn't 2-B because he was said to have 2-B existence erasure
You guys literally argued the timebomb operates using existence erasure. Thus, Alien X would only scale to the bomb in the first place using his own existence erasure.
>he is 2-B from scaling above the Chrono Navigator and Chronosapien Time Bomb, this was just used as extra justification.
And the former I dont agree with. Nothing scales to the Navigator's 2-B feat, including the Navigator itself. As for the timebomb, see above. Alien X would only scale to the bomb if the bomb uses erasure and you scale Alien X's erasure from that.
>As well as the fact that you're like the only one besides The Everlasting apparently that doesn't read the statement correctly and you keep on bringing the same arguements that aren't leading anywhere.
Did you not read what I said before Epic? I said im fine with dropping this and scaling Alien X to the timebomb via his existence erasure. But thats it.
The Navigator I still vehemently disagree with and if going by the timebomb, then Alien X's individual stats dont scale to it. Only his existence erasure, which I would agree with now.
You guys literally argued the timebomb operates using existence erasure. Thus, Alien X would only scale to the bomb in the first place using his own existence erasure.
>he is 2-B from scaling above the Chrono Navigator and Chronosapien Time Bomb, this was just used as extra justification.
And the former I dont agree with. Nothing scales to the Navigator's 2-B feat, including the Navigator itself. As for the timebomb, see above. Alien X would only scale to the bomb if the bomb uses erasure and you scale Alien X's erasure from that.
>As well as the fact that you're like the only one besides The Everlasting apparently that doesn't read the statement correctly and you keep on bringing the same arguements that aren't leading anywhere.
Did you not read what I said before Epic? I said im fine with dropping this and scaling Alien X to the timebomb via his existence erasure. But thats it.
The Navigator I still vehemently disagree with and if going by the timebomb, then Alien X's individual stats dont scale to it. Only his existence erasure, which I would agree with now.
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>You guys literally argued the timebomb operates using existence erasure. Thus, Alien X would only scale to the bomb in the first place using his own existence erasure.<
I didn't see anyone say that they said that it should also come with existence erasure, and I know for sure I never said that plus Alien X is stated by WoG that he is above the Chronosapien Time Bomb which means he scales above in AP as well, and his existence erasure was discussed after the Alien X upgrade and after your second thread and third thread.
>And the former I dont agree with. Nothing scales to the Navigator's 2-B feat, including the Navigator itself. As for the timebomb, see above. Alien X would only scale to the bomb if the bomb uses erasure and you scale Alien X's erasure from that.<
The Navigator 100% scales to itself and as for the time bomb, see above. Also Alien X scales above the time bomb in everyway
>Did you not read what I said before Epic? I said im fine with dropping this and scaling Alien X to the timebomb via his existence erasure. But thats it.
The Navigator I still vehemently disagree with and if going by the timebomb, then Alien X's individual stats dont scale to it. Only his existence erasure, which I would agree with now.<
The way you worded wasn't very clear to me and reasons above
I didn't see anyone say that they said that it should also come with existence erasure, and I know for sure I never said that plus Alien X is stated by WoG that he is above the Chronosapien Time Bomb which means he scales above in AP as well, and his existence erasure was discussed after the Alien X upgrade and after your second thread and third thread.
>And the former I dont agree with. Nothing scales to the Navigator's 2-B feat, including the Navigator itself. As for the timebomb, see above. Alien X would only scale to the bomb if the bomb uses erasure and you scale Alien X's erasure from that.<
The Navigator 100% scales to itself and as for the time bomb, see above. Also Alien X scales above the time bomb in everyway
>Did you not read what I said before Epic? I said im fine with dropping this and scaling Alien X to the timebomb via his existence erasure. But thats it.
The Navigator I still vehemently disagree with and if going by the timebomb, then Alien X's individual stats dont scale to it. Only his existence erasure, which I would agree with now.<
The way you worded wasn't very clear to me and reasons above
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>Can you seriously stop putting words in my mouth? I never said this...
"It being an explosion proves there's actual Low 2-C power behind it and isn't just some hax ability."
So if you arent implying in the above quote that hax cant be low 2-C, what are you implying exactly?
>Zeno isn't 2-C strictly because of Erasure, his AP is 2-C as well.
incorrect, he did use existance erasure to erase the 12 universes as pointed out on his profile
"Existence Erasure (Can erase people, objects and entire universes by raising his hand) "
Im bringing up universal creation to illustrate that pure hax can be 2-C. AP and hax arent mutually exclusive.
> Uh, are you reading the same thing I am? Neither Enrico Pucci or Kars (JORGE JOESTAR) are 2-C first of all.
Them being Low 2-C or 2-C is completely irrelevant for my point and you know it, I never said a thing about individual stats, so why are you telling me this??? Red herring. Adress my point..
>That only become relevant once you hit 2-A as we'd be talking about infinite universes,
Incorrect, the tier system very clearly states being high 3-A requires you to destroy an infinite 3-D universe/ area, and even points out that being infinitely above high 3-A or destroying infinite universes is still high 3-A unless 1 or more universe has seperated space-times. Rimiru Tempest is rated as 2-B despite taking "countless years" to create thousands of universes, so clearly you dont need to destroy the multiverse quíckly to be 2-B.
>This doesnt help you. If anything, this shows even more the Navigator isn't actually 2-B but only through a chain reaction drawn out process.
Nope, Bill's portals works exactly the same way. And please explain to me why I would say a word about Bill's striking strength and lifting strength? Why do you think I conveniently forgot to mention those 2 things? Why should I have mentioned them in the first place?
"It being an explosion proves there's actual Low 2-C power behind it and isn't just some hax ability."
So if you arent implying in the above quote that hax cant be low 2-C, what are you implying exactly?
>Zeno isn't 2-C strictly because of Erasure, his AP is 2-C as well.
incorrect, he did use existance erasure to erase the 12 universes as pointed out on his profile
"Existence Erasure (Can erase people, objects and entire universes by raising his hand) "
Im bringing up universal creation to illustrate that pure hax can be 2-C. AP and hax arent mutually exclusive.
> Uh, are you reading the same thing I am? Neither Enrico Pucci or Kars (JORGE JOESTAR) are 2-C first of all.
Them being Low 2-C or 2-C is completely irrelevant for my point and you know it, I never said a thing about individual stats, so why are you telling me this??? Red herring. Adress my point..
>That only become relevant once you hit 2-A as we'd be talking about infinite universes,
Incorrect, the tier system very clearly states being high 3-A requires you to destroy an infinite 3-D universe/ area, and even points out that being infinitely above high 3-A or destroying infinite universes is still high 3-A unless 1 or more universe has seperated space-times. Rimiru Tempest is rated as 2-B despite taking "countless years" to create thousands of universes, so clearly you dont need to destroy the multiverse quíckly to be 2-B.
>This doesnt help you. If anything, this shows even more the Navigator isn't actually 2-B but only through a chain reaction drawn out process.
Nope, Bill's portals works exactly the same way. And please explain to me why I would say a word about Bill's striking strength and lifting strength? Why do you think I conveniently forgot to mention those 2 things? Why should I have mentioned them in the first place?
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>I didn't see anyone say that they said that it should also come with existence erasure, and I know for sure I never said that plus Alien X is stated by WoG that he is above the Chronosapien Time Bomb which means he scales above in AP as well, and his existence erasure was discussed after the Alien X upgrade and after your second thread and third thread.
Yeah no. You guys blatantly argued to me that the Chronosapien Time Bomb does not use AP to destroy the Ben 10 Multiverse. It uses Existence Erasure to do that. That means the bomb isnt 2-B in AP, it's 2-B in hax. So if you decide to scale Alien X to the bomb (which I'll agree with as a compromise), then you can only scale Alien X's own existence erasure to the timebombs.
You cant have the bomb be 2-B in both AP and Hax, it's either one of the other. And if scaling Alien X to it, he only scales to it in one manner. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
>The Navigator 100% scales to itself and as for the time bomb, see above. Also Alien X scales above the time bomb in everyway
It doesn't and I have an entire thread arguing why it doesnt. And for the latter, see above. If the bomb uses hax to do its feat, then Alien X is only above it in hax.
>So if you arent implying in the above quote that hax cant be low 2-C, what are you implying exactly?
How about you actually read what I said and not say things that were never said. I never once said hax can't be Low 2-C. I said that in Bills specific case its not Low 2-C hax because his feat involves using an explosion to destroy the fabric of existence. Which means HIS feat is not a hax feat, it's a feat involving attack potency.
>incorrect, he did use existance erasure to erase the 12 universes as pointed out on his profile
He did that in the Tournament of Power. In the specific instance of him destroying Infinite Zamasu and the multiverse in Trunks timeline he did not use erasure. It was a flat out energy attack, which is AP.
>I said they are rated low 2-C, despite taking infinite time to destroy the universe
But they weren't going to destroy the universe. They were going to RESET the universe.
>Rimiru Tempest is rated as 2-B despite taking "countless years" to create thousands of universes, so clearly you dont need to destroy the multiverse quíckly to be 2-B.
ONCE again, you are leaving context out. Lets look at Rimuru's justification and i'll point out why he is the exception:
" Multiverse level (Rimuru has Turn Null which is the primordial energy which allows the user to destroy the existing world and create a new world. Using his Turn Null, Veldanava was able to create the world which has several parallel universes. Over a period of countless years, Turn Null accumulated in Rimuru's Imaginary Space, which gives him enough energy to recreate the world, which contains many parallel universes, tens of thousands of times)"
Read what I bolded out. Rimuru's 2-B rating doesnt come from him taking thousands of years to create 2-B universes. His rating comes from him taking thousands of years to store up energy that is used to create those universes. He is able to wield 2-B energy at once after it is stored up in his Imaginary Space, which is why he counts for being a 2-B being. The universes don't take that long to be created, the energy takes that long to be accumulated. But once it reaches that point, he can store that level of energy within him and use it at once to recreate the world into a 2-B Multiverse. Thus, he's 2-B. Again, context matters.
>Nope, Bill's portals works the same way.
They dont because they actually destroy something. And with attack potency.
>And please explain to me why I would say a word about Bill's striking strength and lifting strength? Why do you think I conveniently forgot to mention those 2 things? Why should I have mentioned them in the first place?
Because you wanted to try passing off Bill being scaled to a feat that "supposedly" isnt AP when it very much is. And even with it, his other statistics dont scale to the feat.
Yeah no. You guys blatantly argued to me that the Chronosapien Time Bomb does not use AP to destroy the Ben 10 Multiverse. It uses Existence Erasure to do that. That means the bomb isnt 2-B in AP, it's 2-B in hax. So if you decide to scale Alien X to the bomb (which I'll agree with as a compromise), then you can only scale Alien X's own existence erasure to the timebombs.
You cant have the bomb be 2-B in both AP and Hax, it's either one of the other. And if scaling Alien X to it, he only scales to it in one manner. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
>The Navigator 100% scales to itself and as for the time bomb, see above. Also Alien X scales above the time bomb in everyway
It doesn't and I have an entire thread arguing why it doesnt. And for the latter, see above. If the bomb uses hax to do its feat, then Alien X is only above it in hax.
>So if you arent implying in the above quote that hax cant be low 2-C, what are you implying exactly?
How about you actually read what I said and not say things that were never said. I never once said hax can't be Low 2-C. I said that in Bills specific case its not Low 2-C hax because his feat involves using an explosion to destroy the fabric of existence. Which means HIS feat is not a hax feat, it's a feat involving attack potency.
>incorrect, he did use existance erasure to erase the 12 universes as pointed out on his profile
He did that in the Tournament of Power. In the specific instance of him destroying Infinite Zamasu and the multiverse in Trunks timeline he did not use erasure. It was a flat out energy attack, which is AP.
>I said they are rated low 2-C, despite taking infinite time to destroy the universe
But they weren't going to destroy the universe. They were going to RESET the universe.
>Rimiru Tempest is rated as 2-B despite taking "countless years" to create thousands of universes, so clearly you dont need to destroy the multiverse quíckly to be 2-B.
ONCE again, you are leaving context out. Lets look at Rimuru's justification and i'll point out why he is the exception:
" Multiverse level (Rimuru has Turn Null which is the primordial energy which allows the user to destroy the existing world and create a new world. Using his Turn Null, Veldanava was able to create the world which has several parallel universes. Over a period of countless years, Turn Null accumulated in Rimuru's Imaginary Space, which gives him enough energy to recreate the world, which contains many parallel universes, tens of thousands of times)"
Read what I bolded out. Rimuru's 2-B rating doesnt come from him taking thousands of years to create 2-B universes. His rating comes from him taking thousands of years to store up energy that is used to create those universes. He is able to wield 2-B energy at once after it is stored up in his Imaginary Space, which is why he counts for being a 2-B being. The universes don't take that long to be created, the energy takes that long to be accumulated. But once it reaches that point, he can store that level of energy within him and use it at once to recreate the world into a 2-B Multiverse. Thus, he's 2-B. Again, context matters.
>Nope, Bill's portals works the same way.
They dont because they actually destroy something. And with attack potency.
>And please explain to me why I would say a word about Bill's striking strength and lifting strength? Why do you think I conveniently forgot to mention those 2 things? Why should I have mentioned them in the first place?
Because you wanted to try passing off Bill being scaled to a feat that "supposedly" isnt AP when it very much is. And even with it, his other statistics dont scale to the feat.
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>He did that in the Tournament of Power. In the specific instance of him destroying Infinite Zamasu and the multiverse in Trunks timeline he did not use erasure. It was a flat out energy attack, which is AP.
Again, incorrect, he never destroyed more than 1 universe at once during TOP. His profile makes sure to say "universes" about his existance erasure's range, universes being in plural. His AP also clearly says he erased the 12 universes, rather than destroyed, unlike what they say about any other low-2C DBS character. Not that this is remotely relevant for my point tho.
>But they weren't going to destroy the universe. They were going to RESET the universe.
Now you're just arguing semantics, not to mention they did destroy the universe. First the universe gets destroyed after an infinite amount of time passes, then the universe gets reset.
>ONCE again, you are leaving context out. Lets look at Rimuru's justification and i'll point out why he is the exception:
yeah you're right. still, due to how the tiering systems works, it's not relevant. Destroying an infinite universe but not affecting any space-time is high 3-A, destroying infinite universes that are all in the same space-time continuum is still high 3-A. Destroying a universal spacetime,which is an infinite 4-D area , is low-2 C. So how much time passes from destroying thousands of universes does not matter, each 4-D area is infinite.
>They dont because they actually destroy something. And with attack potency.
Hmm so now you're arguing the the portals werent going to destroy anything? Nothing was going to happen?
>Because you wanted to try passing off Bill being scaled to a feat that "supposedly" isnt AP when it very much is. And even with it, his other statistics dont scale to the feat
Again, what does this have to do with striking strength and lifting strength...? That's the part im confused about, why do you think I conveniniently forgot about that, when those are very much irrelevant to my arguments??? I didnt even say a word about his other statistics.
Again, incorrect, he never destroyed more than 1 universe at once during TOP. His profile makes sure to say "universes" about his existance erasure's range, universes being in plural. His AP also clearly says he erased the 12 universes, rather than destroyed, unlike what they say about any other low-2C DBS character. Not that this is remotely relevant for my point tho.
>But they weren't going to destroy the universe. They were going to RESET the universe.
Now you're just arguing semantics, not to mention they did destroy the universe. First the universe gets destroyed after an infinite amount of time passes, then the universe gets reset.
>ONCE again, you are leaving context out. Lets look at Rimuru's justification and i'll point out why he is the exception:
yeah you're right. still, due to how the tiering systems works, it's not relevant. Destroying an infinite universe but not affecting any space-time is high 3-A, destroying infinite universes that are all in the same space-time continuum is still high 3-A. Destroying a universal spacetime,which is an infinite 4-D area , is low-2 C. So how much time passes from destroying thousands of universes does not matter, each 4-D area is infinite.
>They dont because they actually destroy something. And with attack potency.
Hmm so now you're arguing the the portals werent going to destroy anything? Nothing was going to happen?
>Because you wanted to try passing off Bill being scaled to a feat that "supposedly" isnt AP when it very much is. And even with it, his other statistics dont scale to the feat
Again, what does this have to do with striking strength and lifting strength...? That's the part im confused about, why do you think I conveniniently forgot about that, when those are very much irrelevant to my arguments??? I didnt even say a word about his other statistics.
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Will you guys please drop the comparisons to other fictional franchises? I get that you're both trying to prove a point, but the fact is, other franchises are not Ben 10 and it's only furthering the convoluted nature of this thread.
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well how else am i to prove that hax can be = AP in some cases, and that a character can be low 2-C AP even with an infinitely slow attack? No official rules mention any of those things.
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I can agree with Alien X only getting 2-B EE for the time bomb and Servantis' statement (everything stays as is with the Chrono Navigator until we finish that thread) but then we need a general thread on people not scaling to their EE since Zeno and Dimentio both do (their durability is 2-B for some reason), because if Alien X's durability is 2-B for scaling to his EE then so is Galactic Gladiator's durability and thus Alien X scales with his physical AP and striking strength as well.
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