About Animator Vs. Animation

[ShockingPsychic]

This series is a blatant crossover fanfiction and is much better suited for FC/OC.

One look at the pages will show references to Mario, League of Legends, Pac-Man, Pokemon, Minecraft, Herobrine, and Q*bert. These aren't just references either, some characters scale to the AvA versions of these characters (Such as Red scaling to Mario or the verse's speed feat involving Q*bert). These profiles contain multiple references to series and characters that they do not own, just take a look at this excerpt from Green:

• Invulnerability and Flight (Holding the Minecraft Icon grants the user Creative Mode, as confirmed by The Ultimate Weapon's description, as well as proven by the lack of health bar, use of flight, and unlimited access to materials)
• Creation (Can create any item or block in Minecraft, excluding Mob Spawners, Command Blocks, and other blocks that are normally out of standard access for those holding the Icon, Should be able to create the Stick Figure Mech)
• Weapon Creation (Can create any equipment within Minecraft)
• Summoning (Can summon various Minecraft mobs)
• Dimensional Travel (Red could enter the Nether despite creating no nether portals nor leaving signs of damage to the computer's file tab, whereas the other Stick Figures had to blow a hole in the tab)

Multiple references to Minecraft due to there being an unofficial Minecraft crossover episode of AvA. There are dozens of other instances of this, from characters scaling to Mario:

• High Universe level (Fought three versions of Mario. Defeated the Titan Ravager alongside Blue. Compares to the other stick figures whom can fight entities like Youtube)

or the verse's big speed feat revolving around Q*bert:

• Massively FTL+ (Reacted to and caught Q*bert falling from space at these speeds. Can keep up with The Second Coming in combat)

There's even a profile for Herobrine as seen in the series, despite the creator not having the rights to him. Mojang doesn't even have the rights to him, as strange as it sounds, they removed all references to him in official content for this very reason.

The plot of this series is heavily reliant on unofficial crossovers. Just looking at the timeline of the series will show you just how many episodes are crossovers. 5 of 15 total episodes are crossovers. If 1/3 of a series is crossover fanfiction, I don't think it should be on the wiki. FC/OC is much better suited for this verse. I know there are a lot of supporters for this verse and I admire the work done to it, however I can't understand why this verse is on VSBW. EDIT: It seems like the image is outdated and does not properly show the series as a whole. The point that the series contains a large amount of these still applies.

We recently deleted Pacheo Cara Floja and Blue and White for containing too many unofficial crossovers, and AvA is just as guilty.

So, my suggestion is simple: Move Animator Vs. Animation to FC/OC due to being a crossover fanfiction. From the site:

• Do not add any original or fan-made characters to the wiki. If you wish to create any original/fan-made character profiles, feel free to do so in the FC/OC wiki. "Original" here refers to relatively obscure characters from self-contained stories created by members and their friends, whereas "fan-made" refers to ones appearing within fanfiction or works containing a sufficient amount of another piece of fiction's copyrighted material without official permission.

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I agree with this in premise, but I was under the impression that at least some of its crossovers were official in some capacity? It's been explained as such to me before, I haven't watched any of them since the first Minecraft one.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I was under the impression that at least some of its crossovers were official in some capacity

From what I can find, despite Animation Vs. Minecraft being one of the most viewed Minecraft videos of all time, it wasn't sponsored by Mojang or anything. I can also confirm that the Pokémon and Mario episodes were not affiliated with Game Freak or Nintendo.

If there's anything saying that all of the crossovers are official, this can be closed. However, I can't find anything that claims this, and all signs point to it being an indie fan project.

I did find this on the creator's wiki page:

"After the release of Animator vs. Animation IV in October 2, 2014, his subscriber count grew to over one-hundred thousand. The large exponential increase of followers gave motivation to create another movie that came to be Animation vs. Minecraft which put him at one million in less than a month."

It never mentions any legal dealing with Mojang.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Absolutely agreed

 

[Psychomaster35]

Following, will reply later

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If there's truly no official crossovers then yeah, absolutely, to FC/OC it goes.

@Roachman40 @GarrixianXD thoughts on this'n?

 

[Roachman40]

I have not followed animator vs animation in like, forever, so idk

 

[Roachman40]

solely going off what im reading in the OP tho, the proposals look fine by me

 

[GarrixianXD]

It’s very likely Alan Becker should at least retained copyrights permissions, otherwise all those crossovers would be demonetized and taken down. I disagree with deleting the verse from the wiki as it’s unlikely that Alan Becker committed copyrights violations.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Also, this video implies that the Animation vs. Minecraft series is canon to the Animator vs. Animation series.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

otherwise all those crossovers would be demonetized and taken down

There are millions of YouTube videos and animations that feature copyrighted characters, they don't get demonetized for just that. That doesn't mean that they got permission to use the characters though

 

[Nullflowerblush]

It’s very likely Alan Becker should at least retained copyrights permissions, otherwise all those crossovers would be demonetized and taken down. I disagree with deleting the verse from the wiki as it’s unlikely that Alan Becker committed copyrights violations.

that's not how copyright works?

This is considered fair use, which allows creators to produce transformative pieces of art depicting copyrighted material without explicitly gaining permission from the holders. But this in no way means that said transformative material is official.

 

[GarrixianXD]

There are millions of YouTube videos and animations that feature copyrighted characters, they don't get demonetized for just that. That doesn't mean that they got permission to use the characters though

Well, Alan did use those and Mojang didn’t do anything to condemn him. Animation vs. Minecraft is vastly popular and Mojang would sure as hell notice if it’s making profit. Actual Fanfictions that features other verses doesn’t make profit from using its works. Anime War was taken down because it violated copyrights and terms of usage.

that's not how copyright works?

This is considered fair use, which allows creators to produce transformative pieces of art depicting copyrighted material without explicitly gaining permission from the holders. But this in no way means that said transformative material is official.

Alan made profit from it. That only applies for simple fanworks of non-profit.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think we can take presumptions like that. People are right, there are plenty of equivalent instances of fan animation where people are profiting on it.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Actual Fanfictions that features other verses doesn’t make profit from using its works.

You can buy fanfiction on Amazon

There are also hundreds of animations on YouTube that are monetized yet unofficial

(I dunno the how to put images into a block sorry)

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Alan made profit from it. That only applies for simple fanworks of non-profit.

A copyright holder has to manually claim a video in order to claim the profits.

Up until March of 2020, MaSTAR Media was profiting off of his Anime War series, a crossover between Dragon Ball, One Punch Man, Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, etc., only because Toei Animation (the license holders of the Dragon Ball and One Piece anime) had taken its sweet time in identifying the series to begin with.

You can buy fanfiction on Amazon

Eh, copyright is iffy for creepypastas.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Eh, copyright is iffy for creepypastas.

Jeff's copyright owner is known, KillerJeff on Newgrounds

But if that was a bad example, here's Harry Potter fanfic being sold on Amazon

 

[Nullflowerblush]

here's Harry Potter fanfic

I didn't have to see the My Immortal paperback copy, y'know.

But, like, not even Hunt Down the Freeman, which is an officially "endorsed" fanmade spin-off of the Half-Life series, even allowed to be sold on the Steam store pre-Greenlight removal, is allowed to be profiled. In fact, I believe it was even deleted from the Wiki at one point.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Hmmmm… Animator vs. Animation is far more well known though. Anime War was up for so long because Toei didn’t even found out about that before. Series such as Blue vs. White were violating copyrights and limits of fair use, it isn’t the same case with AvA. Even if all of that were unofficial “fair use” crossovers, I still disagree with completely removing the verse from the wiki because we still have Animator vs. Animation (despite the fact AvM and AvLOL has been stated to be canon to it). Animator vs. Animation is completely their own series without involvement of other franchises.

I don't think we can take presumptions like that. People are right, there are plenty of equivalent instances of fan animation where people are profiting on it.

That’s the law here in Canada, however, I’m unsure about the United States.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It’s very likely Alan Becker should at least retained copyrights permissions, otherwise all those crossovers would be demonetized and taken down. I disagree with deleting the verse from the wiki as it’s unlikely that Alan Becker committed copyrights violations.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Also, this video implies that the Animation vs. Minecraft series is canon to the Animator vs. Animation series.

But that's not how it works? YouTube creators can do this, "fair use". I mean, theoretically, since companies can very well take it for themselves and YouTube sometimes doesn't even do anything. They don't have direct permission from companies to earn money from their things, it's something that YouTube allows, but that can be ignored if the company wants to screw you. The company may not screw you, but that doesn't mean their product is official.

Even Blue and White was officially sold and was still removed from the wiki.

 

[Lonkitt]

Admittedly, I was always confused about how this was allowed to pass on the wiki

If no other threads have tackled the subject and why it should be considered valid on the site, then the verse should be wiped from the wiki. I guarantee you Nintendo didn't have any official partnership with Alan given how they are about their properties lmao

The series also heavily revolves around Minecraft, which is a huge problem. Not like Mojang partnered up with Alan either. Same with League

I heavily agree with moving this to FC/OC

 

[Lonkitt]

Hmmmm… Animator vs. Animation is far more well known though. Anime War was up for so long because Toei didn’t even found out about that before. Series such as Blue vs. White were violating copyrights and limits of fair use, it isn’t the same case with AvA. Even if all of that were unofficial “fair use” crossovers, I still disagree with completely removing the verse from the wiki because we still have Animator vs. Animation (despite the fact AvM and AvLOL has been stated to be canon to it). Animator vs. Animation is completely their own series without involvement of other franchises.

The problem with just using the AvA stuff that isn't revolved around other properties is that the stuff with Minecraft, Mario, etc. is all canon and integral to the narrative Alan set up. It would just be really weird selective canon at that point which isn't how we should do things

 

[GarrixianXD]

Animator vs. Animation, Animation vs. YouTube, Animation vs. Math will still be kept nonetheless. Animator vs. Animation has nothing to do with those other works of his.

 

[Lonkitt]

Animator vs. Animation, Animation vs. YouTube, Animation vs. Math will still be kept nonetheless.

Again, that would just be cherry picking canon despite it being just as canon as the stuff using other properties. Hell, even AvA V ""connects"" itself to Angry Birds as well as Henry Stickmin. Even if we tried the rule of restricting it to just the main AvA series, its already breaking site rules

So no, it shouldn't be kept. Everything AvA related on this wiki should be moved to FC/OC

 

[GarrixianXD]

Again, that would just be cherry picking canon despite it being just as canon as the stuff using other properties. Hell, even AvA V ""connects"" itself to Angry Birds as well Henry Stickmin. Even if we tried the rule of restricting it to just the main AvA series, its already breaking site rules

So no, it shouldn't be kept. Everything AvA related on this wiki should be moved to FC/OC

Heh, I didn’t even notice.

Just saying that using one’s property for profit is beyond fair use and certainly a copyright violation. If it was a copyright violation I don’t understand why Alan isn’t demonetized yet.

There are also hundreds of animations on YouTube that are monetized yet unofficial

(I dunno the how to put images into a block sorry)

They’d should have copyrights licensing or at least permission to make pads of money off it. It isn’t unofficial if it’s has permission from the original party.

You can buy fanfiction on Amazon

Typical Chinese product from Tianmao

Obviously people get away with crimes. Alan Becker is a well-known animator and the popularity of the videos would determine if his usage of other franchises were legal or not. As I said before, wouldn’t make sense for some copyrights violating animation with 322 million views not be taken down after 8 years.

 

[Lonkitt]

Heh, I didn’t even notice.

Just saying that using one’s property for profit is beyond fair use and certainly a copyright violation. If it was a copyright violation I don’t understand why Alan isn’t demonetized yet.

We can’t just assume guys like Nintendo saw the videos and said “looks A-Okay!”. YouTube is incredibly fucky with demonetization. Hell, I’ve experienced it myself. Sometimes I’ll upload something I think would get demonetized, yet doesn’t. Other times I can upload something and it’ll instantly get demonetized

Does that make any memes I make that dodge demonetization “official”? Hell no

Either way, this breaches our wiki standards. AvA’s gotta leave the wiki

They’d should have copyrights licensing or at least permission to make pads of money off it. It isn’t unofficial if it’s has permission from the original party.

Obviously people get away with crimes. Alan Becker is a well-known animator and the popularity of the videos would determine if his usage of other franchises were legal or not. As I said before, wouldn’t make sense for some copyrights violating animation with 322 million views not be taken down after 8 years.

Again, look to what I said above

Another thing worth mentioning. A company like Sega is very aware of the fan games made for franchises like Sonic and has been very verbal about letting them fly. Does that mean those are official or endorsed? Hell no. Just because something fanmade manages to avoid copyright or whatever doesn’t mean it’s official by our standards

You’re making excuses that don’t make any sense

By all means, AvA deserves to go to FC/OC. It has no place on VSBW

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

So, this is your response against the presentation of a Tier-1 AvA character, huh.

Anyway, I wholeheartedly disagree on taking the verse out of VSBW just because it has a one-way connection to those franchises, and for some reason this thread seems to regard the entirety of AvA's OG characters (The Chosen One, The Dark Lord, The Second Coming, Red/Blue/Yellow/Green etc.) as fan-fic characters designed solely for those franchises, which is kind of weird.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Anyway, I wholeheartedly disagree on taking the verse out of VSBW just because it has a one-way connection to those franchises, and for some reason this thread seems to regard the entirety of AvA's OG characters (The Chosen One, The Dark Lord, The Second Coming, Red/Blue/Yellow/Green etc.) as fan-fic characters designed solely for those franchises, which is kind of weird.

We recently deleted Pacheo Cara Floja and Blue and White for containing too many unofficial crossovers, and AvA is just as guilty.

 

[Lonkitt]

Anyway, I wholeheartedly disagree on taking the verse out of VSBW just because it has a one-way connection to those franchises, and for some reason this thread seems to regard the entirety of AvA's OG characters (The Chosen One, The Dark Lord, The Second Coming, Red/Blue/Yellow/Green etc.) as fan-fic characters designed solely for those franchises, which is kind of weird.

Again, it doesn’t matter if those OG characters exist. Prosperities that are not the creators are integrally part of the main canon. Hell, most of Alan’s series is just Minecraft stuff now

We don’t let OCs from stories with licensed characters onto the wiki just because they’re OCs

 

[ShockingPsychic]

We have two staff members agreeing for deletion, but should we wait for further discussion?

 

[Lonkitt]

We have two staff members agreeing for deletion, but should we wait for further discussion?

The deletion can be carried out. The opposition hasn't offered any legitimate defence to the violations the verse has on the wiki

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Following, will reply later

It's probably best to wait for Psycho, lad is basically the main supporter

 

[Psychomaster35]

If I could point something out, I remember how the verse seemingly used to be on the FC/OC wiki (~2018 or 2019, but then it was suddenly transferred to this wiki, meaning there had to have been a thread that existed before which allowed it to be transferred here.

 

[Lonkitt]

If I could point something out, I remember how the verse seemingly used to be on tye FC/OC wiki, but then it was suddenly transferred to this wiki, meaning there had to have been a thread that existed before which allowed it to be transferred here.

If such a thread exists with legitimate reasoning, it should be brought up. Though I'm admittedly doubtful in whatever if could propose

 

[Psychomaster35]

So here’s proof it formerly existed on the FC/OC wiki at one point

 

[Lonkitt]

So here’s proof it formerly existed on the FC/OC wiki at one point

What about threads? Any proof it ever got approved on that wiki to get ported here?

 

[Psychomaster35]

What about threads? Any proof it ever got approved on that wiki to get ported here?

Here’s a thread I found that could be the reason for why the verse was transferred here, and based on its contents, the OP seemed to be fully aware that it unofficially crosses over with other franchises

 

[Lonkitt]

Here’s a thread I found that could be the reason for why the verse was transferred here

That thread would've been just fine had the other franchises not been part of the canon AvA storyline. Clearly, nothing in that thread acknowledges those

@Mr._Bambu The pages can be booted now

 

[Psychomaster35]

If you’re going to delete them, are you at least going to copy+paste all their content to an FC/OC page first? It would be a hassle to rewrite them from scratch.

 

[Lonkitt]

Like I said above, I’m in favour of them being moved to that wiki. They’re clearly well made and descriptive, just not fitting on VSBW

That being said, I won’t be the one to port them. Already got my hands full

 

[GarrixianXD]

Might as well call Ant here because he was the one who approved it in the first place.