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A Suicidal Janitor Vs. The Son Of God | Thunder McQueen (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure) Vs. Jesus (American Gods)

Immortality and resurrection are to OP for TM, not to mention an aura that soothes the soul of others make this undoubtedly a victory for the Messiah.

Maybe even a stomp.
 
Not like you can. Restricted matches don't get added.
 
Jesus' resurrection takes 3 days, it isn't combat applicable.

He can, however, cure McQueen of his depression via his aura.

Jesus takes this
 
Really?

Why does everyone think curing TMQ's depression is a "win"? You literally just removed a weakness of his. According to SBA, he is still willing to kill and murder Jesus. Now this is a fight between a Street Level and a Human Level character, obviously TMQ beats the shit and kills Jesus..

Now it depends on how fast it takes for Jesus to reincarnate himself. Is it combat applicable? If it's longer than a week, TMQ automatically wins because of SBA. This is ultimately what the fight hinges on. If his Regenerationn is less than a week, than it becomes a win for Jesus because of attrition; eventually TMQ will pass away. If it is less than a week than it becomes a win for TMQ.

EDIT: According to @GyroNutz it takes 3 days. He actually only needs to knock Jesus out for one hour, or put him in a state in which he cannot harm TMQ for over a day.
 
No, no. His aura doesn't just cure TMQ's depression, it makes him feel peaceful. He won't want to kill himself and he also won't want to kill Jesus.
 
So 'bring peace to their hearts' isn't another way of saying 'making them peaceful'?

Genuine question btw
 
No, bringing peace to somebody's heart is subjective. Peaceful activites for someone like Frieza could be torturing people, blowing up Krillin, enslaving races, etc. I'm sure you get the point.

It might be a profile error, but I don't see empathic manip for Jesus, I just see "aura". Therefore you cannot say he has empathic manipulation, and therefore he has no way to automatically make TMQ docile.
 
Wouldn't "bringing peace to somebody's heart" depend on the verse were talking about? For example, if "bringing peace to somebody's heart" was meant to make the oppenent unwilling to fight or kill in one verse, wouldn't that apply to all verses and characters?
 
No, bringing peace to somebody's heart is a subjective statement. It doesn't make every single opponent unwilling to fight or kill even in the SAME verse, let alone other verses.

I found out why Jesus has it listed as an aura, and not empathic manipulation; because it's not actively forced onto characters, it just changes the presence, mood, and feeling of the room whenever he is there. It's almost like its passively radiating from his demeanor. OF course, this would make an opponent docile rather quickly, but like I said, "bringing peace to heart" is subjective. It's fair to assume that TMQ is at unreset seeing as how he is constantly suicidal, so bringing peace to his heart would probably be curing his depression in some way or form, but like I said that would only benefit TMQ. Now he is no longer suicidial and he's at peace with himself, but nothing about that means he suddenly has no intention of killing Jesus. For all we know, he could be at peace because he's no longer suicidal AND he knows that it's going to be pretty easy to murder Jesus. So ultimately, being at peace is subjective, and is not direct empathic manipulation, but empathic suggestion via aura.

So I vote TMQ for the win, on the grounds that Jesus can cure his depression, but would actually end up benefitting TMQ, letting him freely murder Jesus without suicide on his mind.
 
You do realize that peace, literally means that negative thoughts will be purged from Thunder's mind right?
 
Go search up the definition of "peace". I'll tell you what it is:

freedom from disturbance; quiet and tranquility

The entire definition is SUBJECTIVE! It's not the same for every single person. Disturbance is subjective based on what you consider disturbed, quiet is subjective based on what you consider quiet, tranqulity is subjective based on what you consider tranquil. No objectivity, and therefore assuming he'll "be a hippie" is laughably wrong. Peace does not mean negative thoughts are purged lmao.

If you brought a character like Frieza at peace, he's still going to murder and torture people, him being evil is what he considers to be at peace. Disturbance to a character like him is "hippie thoughts" and "positive emotion", and therefore he will now be free from it. Quiet to a character like him might be gunfire, considering he's exposed to loud explosions and screaming constantly.
 
Yeah when Frieza was in hell, he had a bunch of cute toys dancing around him. This would seem peaceful to some people, but to Frieza it was his eternal punishment.
 
True, but this is peace from Jesus' perspective. Biblical Jesus would never want a man to kill himself, so why would his aura allow such? Peace is subjective, yes. But I doubt the textbook definition of 'can do no wrong' would create an aura that doesn't make people passive.
 
Again, unfounded assumption. His page just literally says "brings peace to their hearts", there's no reason to assume it's however Jesus views the definition of peace. Logically, if it means peace from his perspective, than he is no longer bringing peace to EVERYONE's heart, since not everyone finds being calm docile and joyous to be at peace. It literally just says, objectively, "peace to their hearts", not "peace to their hearts from jesus perspective"

I do think TMQ is troubled and not at peace because he is suicidial, and therefore the aura WOULD cure his suicidal tendencies. I don't believe TMQ is troubled and not at peace because he wants to kill Jesus, and therefore bringing him to peace would not affect his desire to murder Jesus at all.

He is self-centered and narcisistic (according to JoJo wikia), and therefore him being at peace would probably be NOT being suicidal, while also wanting everyone to be beneath him, and those who are not are interfering with his definition of peace, which would fall in line with his desire to murder Jesus. So when Jesus puts him at peace, he really just removes TMQ's only handicap and lets TMQ freely murder him.
 
Peace is not subjective. It's just looked at subjectively.

"Peace is the concept of harmony and the absence of hostility. In a behavioral sense, peace is a lack of conflict and freedom from fear of violence between individuals and heterogeneous social groups"

Peace is the antithesis of Chaos, the synonym of Law and Order. The universal peace is the purging of negative thoughts, and Jesus embodies such a universal truth.

People can have there own perceptions of any concept, it is their natural right as an individual, but that doesn't make it so. Just because one wills it doesn't mean it is.

Jesus brings his peace to others.


If it was TM's concept of Peace then it wouldn't remove his suicidal thoughts, but enhance them as his "ideals of peace" are the sweet finality of life; the absolution of Death's embrace.
 
You're describing a state of peace, not a mindset of peace. The state of peace is objective, the mindset of peace is subjective. Describing a city in a state of peace is objective, describing a person's state of mind as "peaceful" is subjective. I already analyzed the merriam webster definiton, all of it is subjective, this cherry-picked quote isn't proving anything.

Peace is not always the antithesis of Chaos, only in the objective sense. Again, in someones personality and mindset, the opposite of "peace" wildly varies, just like in that Frieza example. When he was trapped in hell, there was butterflies and talking teddy bears and sunlight etc. You would not consider this a state of peace for him, would you? For most, maybe, but definitely not him. He is very clearly suffering. Therefore peace from individual to individual cannot be objective, unless describing a state of an object/area.

EDIT: TMQ has already acknowledged he is troubled and disturbed, and that he just wants to end it all. Killing himself would arrive to a state of peace, but so would basking in Jesus's aura. Therefore it can really go two ways, either TMQ becomes content with killing himself, or TMQ becomes content with living, this time no longer suffering from his depression, and I'm pretty sure he'd rather be alive to experience this state of peace.
 
You say this:

Again, unfounded assumption. His page just literally says "brings peace to their hearts"

But you are incorrect, his description says this:

"Aura (His presence soothes those around him and brings peace to their hearts)"

You left out the part on how his presence soothes those around him.

The definition of Soothes?

Soothe

so═×oT═ƒH/

verb

3rd person present: soothes

  1. gently calm (a person or their feelings).
"a shot of brandy might soothe his nerves"

synonyms:
calm (down), pacify, comfort, hush, quiet, subdue, settle (down), lull, tranquilize;


The mindset of the person doesn't matter. The power works to calm the emotions of others.

And Chaos is the opposite of Peace. Just because people might feel at home with Chaos, doesn't make that Peace.
 
The definition of "soothe" is to "gently calm" (a person or their feelings).

Gently is describing the de-escalation, and calm is describing what it's being de-escalated to. So let's dig deeper in definitions, and look at the definition of calm:

(of a person, action, or manner) not showing or feeling nervousness, anger, or other emotions.

Basically, uninterrupted by other feelings and emotions in general. So Jesus's aura calmy de-escalates a person from other emotions or feelings, so that they may reach a state of "peace", which is again, subjective. If my state of peace is murderous intent, he would simply de-escalate me from my other emotions or feelings so that I may reach a state of pure murderous intent.

De-escalating TMQ from other emotions or feelings (which includes suicidal tendencies) so that he may reach a state of peace, aka narcacism/self-centered (his core values and personality according to JoJo wikia) is only going to help him. A quick google search reveals that narcacism and feelings of being self-centered are some of the most common traits found among school shooters, and therefore being purely narcicistic would not interrupt TMQ from killing Jesus whatsoever. Therefore Jesus removes his suicidal tendencies, and TMQ proceeds to kill Jesus.
 
Again, TM's "peace" is suicide, the end of his life. If it was his "peace" being brought to fruition, it wouldn't end his thoughts of suicide, but enhance them.

Look at all the synonyms I bolded. Pacify, Null, Tranquilize, Subdue. The intention of the wording is clear, you just don't want to accept it.

And again, you're wrong. Just because a murder likes murdering people doesn't mean that murdering people is peaceful to him. It means that he enjoys embracing the discord of homicide. He is one with Chaos. Not that "his peace is being bad". That's not how such a concept works.

Conceptual universal truths are binary.

Peace is not subjective. Others' perceptions that their "peace" is murder, rape, torture, etc are just wrong. They love and embrace Chaos, not Peace. "Bring their minds to their sense of peace" is not what is really happening, it would bring their minds to Chaos, the Chaos that they desire. And that's not how Jesus's Aura works.
 
You seemingly are confusing Peace for Happiness.

"Bring someone to a state of happiness" is subjective on what makes that person happy. For a murderer, their happiness is committing homicide, but that's not peaceful. Peace isn't happiness.

With the description of the Aura, the definitions of the words and their synonyms, and an understanding on who Jesus was and is, in the narrative of Neil Gaiman's Story, it is obvious on the nature of his power and how it works.

Jesus wins this fight by pacifying TM with his presence.


Well, I'm going to bed now, see ya.
 
Yep definitely a stomp. Thunder kills himself, jesus comes back. And if Thunder doesn't kills himself, he can't put him down.
 
Dziga said:
Yep definitely a stomp. Thunder kills himself, jesus comes back.
Click to expand...
Jesus's resurrection takes three days like in The Bible, so I believe its not combat applicable.

Although Jesus's mere presence cures TM of his depression and pacifies him.


It is a stomp though. Soothing Aura + Eventual Ressurection + Type 8 Immortality based on not just his 2 Billion believers, but on the entirety of Humanity remembering him makes him win no diff.

He defeats the guy with a Stand by standing still. LMAO.
 
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