- 9,978
- 2,015
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
A spot between the Strongest: Negi Springfield vs The Second Christ
- Thread starter Antoniofer
- Start date
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #3
TSC can control its own molecular structure, so not only resist it, but can revert the state or well, can be functional even when transmutated.
Yes, speed boosts are still allowed in speed equalized matches
Yes, speed boosts are still allowed in speed equalized matches
- 2,938
- 365
And Level 2 makes him even faster and makes his reaction time, combat speed, and dexterity equal to his travel speed.
Also, he becomes 6-C with Magia Erebea post rebirth, so... Wouldn't that be an AP stomp? It amps him 2x at least, and then even further when he actually adds his armaments.
Also, he becomes 6-C with Magia Erebea post rebirth, so... Wouldn't that be an AP stomp? It amps him 2x at least, and then even further when he actually adds his armaments.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #6
TSC can counter that with Graviton, as it can reduce the speed of someone that moves at Mach 9 back to normal human speeds; without counting Pressure that can have the same effect.
- 2,938
- 365
How does Graviton work? Especially when Negi becomes made of lightning and plasma. Does it use actual gravity? Does Gravity work on plasma...? Would be even be able to get it off in time, and is it magical or tangible in terms of an energy source, cause Negi could just absorb it if he had no way around it using Magia Erebea. Does it nullify magic projectile speeds as well? What about it's range— can it stop an army of targets made of intangible plasma?
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #9
Uyy, too much questions. Ok, graviton is simply gravity, nothing about magic, the needless have control over the natural forces; pressure is similar, it can't decrease weight, but it cam induce vertigo, lack of oxygen and any effect caused by variable temperature.
Graviton working in plasma is limited of how gravity works in plasma. Could reflect projectiles via Shield of Aegis, or simply counter with his passive ability.
Graviton working in plasma is limited of how gravity works in plasma. Could reflect projectiles via Shield of Aegis, or simply counter with his passive ability.
- 2,938
- 365
Literally flies in space. Lol.
But if Gravity doesn't work on lightning very well, Negi isn't gonna be affected by Graviton. I don't know how he would get around Counter or his Shield unless they're tangible. I don't think Negi can absorb non-mystical forces with Magia Erebea, but if it counts as Chi or something then Negi can just absorb it. Um... I think this is inconclusive, unless this guy has Death Inducement that goes beyond Immortality...
Because Negi can blitz, but none of his attacks hit, right?
But if Gravity doesn't work on lightning very well, Negi isn't gonna be affected by Graviton. I don't know how he would get around Counter or his Shield unless they're tangible. I don't think Negi can absorb non-mystical forces with Magia Erebea, but if it counts as Chi or something then Negi can just absorb it. Um... I think this is inconclusive, unless this guy has Death Inducement that goes beyond Immortality...
Because Negi can blitz, but none of his attacks hit, right?
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #15
As I said, the counter is passive, and can simply left active Shield of Aegis.
I guess if Negi do not need oxygen then he wouldn't suffer that issue from Biocompresion, although, perhaps it still suffer the other ones.
Other thing, is Negi immune to Command Inducement? Like, giving an order and then obeying.
I guess if Negi do not need oxygen then he wouldn't suffer that issue from Biocompresion, although, perhaps it still suffer the other ones.
Other thing, is Negi immune to Command Inducement? Like, giving an order and then obeying.
- 2,938
- 365
Mind Manipulation has limited affect on him, and his willpower is sufficient enough to fight off what can be the equivalent of a God of Evil and the pain and suffering of billions of lives for 50 years straight. So I doubt that anything like that would work on him, given his worse showing against mind manipulation is him not really in combat, blushing, and all around not really putting up the best fight he could. He also has mentally died dozens of times and got back up to fight every time, as well as overcame his own berserk mode that messed with his mind severely. I really doubt that command inducement would be an easy win.
Negi probably wouldn't feel vertigo since he's made of lighting and is presumable weightless and could fly somewhat as a result of it, and he is immune to extreme heat. Cold probably won't work either, given him fighting against an Ice Mage (Who has killed him several times).
So yeah. Seems like he'll break out the nap spell then, if nothing else works.
Negi probably wouldn't feel vertigo since he's made of lighting and is presumable weightless and could fly somewhat as a result of it, and he is immune to extreme heat. Cold probably won't work either, given him fighting against an Ice Mage (Who has killed him several times).
So yeah. Seems like he'll break out the nap spell then, if nothing else works.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #17
Ok, so he is an undead, in whose case Biokinesis is futile (I presume). That left TSC with Psychochinesys (matter manipulation, body puppetry), Agniswattas, and most of defensive powers. There's possible more useful powers, but right now I don't remember them.
In order to sleep him, one need to pass Shield of Aegis or wait an opportune moment, and considering that Blade resisted Lilith Temptation (something that mess up with nerves and sense), it could be aswel resistent, or good, develop a "waking fragance".
In order to sleep him, one need to pass Shield of Aegis or wait an opportune moment, and considering that Blade resisted Lilith Temptation (something that mess up with nerves and sense), it could be aswel resistent, or good, develop a "waking fragance".
- 2,938
- 365
I'm not even sure how those would work. His page doesn't say he resists sleep inducement, so I don't believe his Shield matters unless you're gonna get that CRT'd. He's a vampire immortal with high tier regen, and he becomes lightning so I don't think he'll be affected by Biokinesis in that state, and if you could demonstrate how it is that Christ mark 2 can hit a Relativistic Negi with any of these abilities, especially body puppetry of a damn near light speed bolt of electricity that can extend and move its body parts on some Logia shit.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #19
Speed is equalized, the speed amp is considered but the how fast one is not; yes, it can boost his speed but TSC can decrease it. Blade resisted Fragance, that can mess with nerves and senses of the target, not sure if it affect Negi as being an undead (if his body is functional or not), but as Blade resisted fragance by creating a counter fragance then TSC could do the same. Shield of Aegis can null and reflect any fragment power, including Psychochinesis, that can manipulate all the types of psy, so is factible that can null ofther mind affecting powers.
- 2,938
- 365
Ok, how is speed amp being considered but the speed of the character isn't being considered, and how can TSC decrease it if he can neither hit Negi with any of it due to speed nor use gravity to keep him slow when he is made of lightning and plasma? Negi isn't undead necessarily, but I don't think that it'll work if Negi is made of lightning, his powers would have to be able to affect intangible creature's biologies and Negi is VERY magical in RT. And Fragment powers aren't Magic. So how do you know it will work the same for Negi's spells, and even if we grant you the defenses, how do you know it will manipulate any of Negi's magic? Which isn't "psy", and likely wouldn't be affected by it. And none of what you said is on his page.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #21
It not may be in his page, but its in the page where it list the powers, you can see it in the Verse page.
Gravity is an universal force, so I don't see how it wouldn't affect matter such plasma, and Graviton and Bionic Compressor are AoE attacks, so TSC do not need to target him with accuracy, just affect the zone. He can also stop any material target by manipulating it via Psychochinesys.
Shield f Aegis is a Missing Link level fragment, so it can affect any other fragment, such Qi and Kirishna Vaitarani/Communing, so it can also deflect powers of esoteric nature.
Gravity is an universal force, so I don't see how it wouldn't affect matter such plasma, and Graviton and Bionic Compressor are AoE attacks, so TSC do not need to target him with accuracy, just affect the zone. He can also stop any material target by manipulating it via Psychochinesys.
Shield f Aegis is a Missing Link level fragment, so it can affect any other fragment, such Qi and Kirishna Vaitarani/Communing, so it can also deflect powers of esoteric nature.
- 2,938
- 365
Gravity being a universal force doesn't mean it works on everything the same. If it takes a Black hole's level of gravity to catch light, lightning of a comparable speed will take a little less than that, and I don't think that the ability you're using is that strong. I know that the strength for gravity to catch light or lightning isn't exactly a black hole, but still, I don't think lightning is going to be as effected by gravity far far far weaker than a black hole if it's not strong enough to even slow down light.
If Qi is a "fragment" power, then maybe Negi can affect his powers using magic and Chi afterall. Negi could absorb any offensive power, and possibly nullify his defenses too, if his powers can interact and are esoteric in nature.
If Qi is a "fragment" power, then maybe Negi can affect his powers using magic and Chi afterall. Negi could absorb any offensive power, and possibly nullify his defenses too, if his powers can interact and are esoteric in nature.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #23
I mean, the same power can be used to stop other types of fragments such fire and magnetism; I may not know how gravity interact with electricity, but if Negi is going to be immune it needs to show be immune to gravity or being immaterial.
Note that TSC have a power that allows him to control Chi, not all its powers are based in Chi.
Note that TSC have a power that allows him to control Chi, not all its powers are based in Chi.
- 2,938
- 365
We have to assume that Gravity works the way it would for Negi as it would for lightning because he literally turns into lightning itself. If Gravity doesn't effect lightning the same way it would a normal person's body, as for your speed example, then his gravity power isn't likely to work the same way you think it would. If Graviton has demonstrated being able to slow down Step Leader Lightning as it comes from the sky or towards him, sure, but I don't think that power is relevant. Is his Psychokinesis AoE as well? And has Bionic compressor specifically shown the ability to manipulate the biological systems of things that are made of lightning and magic and don't really have organs that are accessible to him without bypassing magical intangibility? Because Negi has organs, you just need to be able to cut him as though you were cutting a Ghost. In Negima, Demons, fairies, and spirits have a sort of intangibility that requires you to use special demon/magic creature spells, attacks, or techniques to be able to harm their "physical bodies". They don't use the word "Astral plane" but that's the best and likely accurate way to describe it. Ghosts, demons, magical spirits, and Negi are all intangible spirit things that need "spirit intangibility/non-Physical interaction" to hit. It says he has Elemental Intangibility on his sheet as well.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #25
Psychochinesys is not AoE (although ot can create these type of attacks), but is automatic, saying a word is enough to ativate it. Elemental intangibility wouldn't protect Negi against most attacks as TSC control at molecular level. Can't say much about Graviton and Bionic Compression, its effect in electricity is limited to real life (although, considering has been used to counter Magnetic World).
If Negi is a ghost then is a risk as TSC can absorb them, see them, interact with them and summon them.
If Negi is a ghost then is a risk as TSC can absorb them, see them, interact with them and summon them.
- 2,938
- 365
Negi's intangibility isn't just elemental, it's also magical and esoteric. You would need to have some kind of hax that bypasses intangibility of that kind to affect him, like the spirit killing and exorcist swordsman in his verse, who need to use special magic/Chi and techniques to affect his body. I can agree he is made of lightning physically, the guide book explicitly states that, but for example punching him (unless you're Jack Rakan) or trying to hit him with non-magical stuff may not work. He's become immaterial in a sense as well, like a Ghost or spirit. The guide book even compares him to a Genie. If he can absorb spirits then that is a good thing for him to do.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #28
A minor research tells me that gravity do not affect that much electrons. However, as electricity is made of matter is still capable to affect it with psychochynesis, is its some type of spiritual energy it risk oneself to be absorbed by the Third Eye (although, if its considered spiritual I dount it would have been considered lightning speed to begin with, and considered you say is lightning then most oikely is convemtional lightning).
Either way, Shield of Aegis should be capable to null the power within the shield range. And yes, Third Eye allows him to have NPI as it can interaxt with the "unseen ones".
Either way, Shield of Aegis should be capable to null the power within the shield range. And yes, Third Eye allows him to have NPI as it can interaxt with the "unseen ones".
- 2,938
- 365
Negi's speed is Relativistic because the technique literally explains that he moves in the same way a stepped leader on lightning does. Yes it uses magic, but it uses magic to create the real stepped leader phenomena of lightning to make him Relativistic
To quote it; "...The Caster becomes a mass of electrically Charger particles. Once the caster has become a mass of charges particles, he separates positively charged particles from his body and positions them to create a certain extent of an electrical field. The Charged particles and electrical field can be changed at Will from a latent state to an active one and vice versa, by the caster... When the electrical field becomes active, it's powerful electric potential difference draws the negatively charged particles that make up the casters body towards the positively charged particles of the field with tremendous force. This, the caster can move at high speeds via electrical discharge (In the story, Chamo [our exposition machine] says that he travels at 150KM PER SECOND, because that is the average progression velocity of advance discharge when lightning strikes."
Here's where they directly reference stepped leader lightning. They did before, when discussing the phenomenon of the positively charged lightning streamer field that Negi shoots along, but then they directly state;
"The main lightning strike occurs after the path is opened so it is even faster [than 150km per second, the average]. For example, in simple calculation to ionize a nitrogen atom, a single electrical particle flying inside a discharge path needs to go at a speed greater than 2,260km per second."
It goes on to say that the electrical discharge in the atmosphere creates many variables, making an accurate figure hard to find, but this is in reference to why Chamo used a far slower number (because it was the simplest one) and why in general lightning's Speed is hard to define.
To quote it; "...The Caster becomes a mass of electrically Charger particles. Once the caster has become a mass of charges particles, he separates positively charged particles from his body and positions them to create a certain extent of an electrical field. The Charged particles and electrical field can be changed at Will from a latent state to an active one and vice versa, by the caster... When the electrical field becomes active, it's powerful electric potential difference draws the negatively charged particles that make up the casters body towards the positively charged particles of the field with tremendous force. This, the caster can move at high speeds via electrical discharge (In the story, Chamo [our exposition machine] says that he travels at 150KM PER SECOND, because that is the average progression velocity of advance discharge when lightning strikes."
Here's where they directly reference stepped leader lightning. They did before, when discussing the phenomenon of the positively charged lightning streamer field that Negi shoots along, but then they directly state;
"The main lightning strike occurs after the path is opened so it is even faster [than 150km per second, the average]. For example, in simple calculation to ionize a nitrogen atom, a single electrical particle flying inside a discharge path needs to go at a speed greater than 2,260km per second."
It goes on to say that the electrical discharge in the atmosphere creates many variables, making an accurate figure hard to find, but this is in reference to why Chamo used a far slower number (because it was the simplest one) and why in general lightning's Speed is hard to define.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #32
Ok, so its real lightning, it just use magic to obtain said power.
- 2,938
- 365
There's calcs that put characters using Negi's technique at sub Relativistic. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DodoNova2/Touta'Speed_-_UQ_Holder
And a better explanation than mine for his speed. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FrenchStephy/"Lightning_speed"_in_Negima
Now imma go look for that fight that calls him a magical spirit. Throughout the manga, it was noted that Jack Rakan being able to physically hit Negi and touch fire spirits was strange, and I think they drew parallels. He did it because he's broken and bullshit like that.
And a better explanation than mine for his speed. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FrenchStephy/"Lightning_speed"_in_Negima
Now imma go look for that fight that calls him a magical spirit. Throughout the manga, it was noted that Jack Rakan being able to physically hit Negi and touch fire spirits was strange, and I think they drew parallels. He did it because he's broken and bullshit like that.
- 2,938
- 365
To note, Rakan also draws comparisons to "real lightning" when talking about Negi's power. The "hello streamers" of "a real lightning bolt" directly reference Stepped Leader Lightning.
https://*********.net/manga/mahou-sensei-negima-2/i1959737/v28/c254
Negi already has regen due to his immortality, but when he gets cut (when it goes through his magic barriers he uses to defend himself during combat as well), he reconstitutes and regenerates. His spell does that for him.
But the Shinmei Ryu technique is designed for Excorsism. They fight demons and spirits who have what seems to be this Astral layer of intangibility. Negi demonstrates here two types of intangibility— physical and non-supernatural elemental intangibility via his particles. And mystical intangibility that must be bipased via exorcism/mystical intangibility negation or something with that effect.
This chapter explains it. It targets "spirits" for the purposes of exorcism, and spirits are intangible in a way that is evidently different from that which normal gasses and plasma afford.
https://*********.net/manga/mahou-sensei-negima-2/i1959718/v28/c256
https://*********.net/manga/mahou-sensei-negima-2/i1959737/v28/c254
Negi already has regen due to his immortality, but when he gets cut (when it goes through his magic barriers he uses to defend himself during combat as well), he reconstitutes and regenerates. His spell does that for him.
But the Shinmei Ryu technique is designed for Excorsism. They fight demons and spirits who have what seems to be this Astral layer of intangibility. Negi demonstrates here two types of intangibility— physical and non-supernatural elemental intangibility via his particles. And mystical intangibility that must be bipased via exorcism/mystical intangibility negation or something with that effect.
This chapter explains it. It targets "spirits" for the purposes of exorcism, and spirits are intangible in a way that is evidently different from that which normal gasses and plasma afford.
https://*********.net/manga/mahou-sensei-negima-2/i1959718/v28/c256
- 2,938
- 365
Even if TSC could manipulate Negi's particles, he would have to focus on him. When he cannot even see or perceive him due to the speed gap, and his TK isn't an AoE.
The shield is the shield and counters are counters. I think it's an inconclusive, because unless his absorption of spirits is an AoE, neither of them can hit each other. His powers that aren't magic or Chi, Negi can't stop it.
The shield is the shield and counters are counters. I think it's an inconclusive, because unless his absorption of spirits is an AoE, neither of them can hit each other. His powers that aren't magic or Chi, Negi can't stop it.
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #37
Bump
- 9,978
- 2,015
- Thread starter
- #39
Bumping with current votes: 0 - 0 - 1 (Negi - TSC - Incon).
John985
He/Him- 3,491
- 561
I kinda forgot to ask this, can adam block power null? It's kinda the basic spell in the series.
- Dispulsatio (ÞºúÚÖñ, Cancel) : A midlevel spell that students are required to learn at the magic academy. It terminates the paranormal phenomena brought about by magic. The caster's magical power collides with the magical power from the paranormal phenomena, and if the caster's power is greater, it can extinguish the phenomena in question. However, it can easily terminate paranormal phenomena brought into existence by the caster himself.
Similar threads
