A Soulless being fights a really tough monkey

[Keeweed]

The Vestige pissed off the wrong Monkey. Low 2-C forms and speed isn't equalized right now, but it will if it has to be. Fight takes place in heaven.

The Soulless one:

The Handsome Monkey King:

Inconclusive:

 

[Imaginym]

Sun Wukong in his Low 2-C, likely 2-B form has these powers:

| Non-Corporeal, Reality Warping, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Acausality, Immortality (Types 1, 3, 4 and 5), Omnipresence, possible Nigh Omniscience

It doesn't say all previous powers or such, so I'll assume he just has those. Since he's Low 2-C, likely 2-B, I'm going to assume he's statistically stronger than the At least Low 2-C The Vestige.

Sun Wukon has Immortality thorugh Eternal Life, Regenerationn, Resurrection, & Deathless types. (1, 3, 4 & 5, although I don't know what level of Regen he has, his Resurrection, AFAIK, is based on his lower key's 72 forms/lives thing (I'm not a Journey to the West Expert, though.), & his Deathless is based on having erased his name from Hell's registry and thus can't be directly killed.

I don't think you can petrify a Non-Corporeal, so that's out.

The Vestige's Intelligence section is a great testiment to its fighting skills:

Intelligence: Gifted. Capable of doing battle with, and defeating the Celestial Constellation of the Warrior, and fight the Barons of Move-Like-This, who are Fa-Nuit-Hen's perceptions of the perfect martial artists and warriors projected into reality, and the sight of the Vestige's fighting skills was what allowed Fa-Nuit-Hen to remember the Barons and recreate them in the first place.

BUT....

Combat is a bit strange because Sun Wukong in this key is a Buddha, & one of the things that comes with that is Omnipresence. Also, he's Nigh Omniscient, & he was already a A master of virtually all forms of martial arts.

If they did fight, they'd probably be on par with each other in skill. Also, The Vestige has Low-Godly Regenerationn. Between that & Sun Wukong's Immortality, it might not go anywhere, & depending on how Sun Wukong's Nigh Omniscience works, he might know that to begin with. So unless Sun Wukong can kill someone with Low Godly, brawling is kinda pointless, except maybe to gather info.

Both of them have Time Manipulation, & The Vestige has Time Travel. In theory, if either could freeze the opponent in time, that could be a win via Incapacitation.

But would freezing him in time even work on Sun Wukong, given his Non-Corporeal, Acausal, Omnipresent nature? (What type of Acausality does he even have?)

One option might be The Vestige's Soulfire: (Can burn down the Soul of their foes through Soulfire, and transform the hate present within their Heart into flames, scorching them physically and spiritually)

He definitely can't miss an Omnipresent opponent, right? But how long would burning something that big take? Could he hit a Non-Corporeal opponent? What about Sun Wukong's Matter Manipulation & Soul Manipulation?

Meanwhile, Sun Wukong has Mind Manipulation. I don't know it works, but if he could seize control of The Vestige's mind or break it, that would be victory via Incapacitation.

Lastly.... The Vestige's Stamina is "Superhuman" vs Sun Wukong's "Infinite". Sun could definitely wear it down, given his combat skill & much higher stamina, & unless The Vestige goes after the other beings in Heaven for a heal or Time Travels, Sun Wukong can probably handle it, given he'll literally be in every part of Heaven to get in The Vestige's way if he tries attacking someone else. "I am your opponent" and all that.


(Also, The Vestige is listed as an Immortal, but his page doesn't say which kind of Immortality.) All in all, both seem to have several ways to win, but info on important powers is lacking. Also, knowing how Sun Wukong's Nigh-Omniscience works would be a HUGE help to deciding my vote.

Also, what is The Vestige's typical opening move or plan going into battle? Going by Standard Battle Assumptions, he doesn't have prior knowledge of his opponent.

 

[Keeweed]

Sun Wukong does have his previous abilities and the Vestige resist soul manipulation because he's soulless. I don't see immortality on the vestige page, and he has fought a Nigh Omniscient god before (but he was physically boosted by the amulet of kings). He may also resist Mind Hax because he's missing some resistances. And being low 2-C possible 2-B doesn't make Sun Wukong stronger it just means that he maybe 2-B. Other than that your post was good.

Real quick why does Sun Wukong powers say he's Nigh Omniscient but not his intelligence?

"Intelligence: Quite High. A master of virtually all forms of martial arts. Trained under the supreme Taoist sage Subodhi for 20 years"

 

[Imaginym]

@Keeweed: "I don't see immortality on the vestige page". The Vestige is in the Immortals category.

As for The Vestige supposedly missing Resistance to Mind Manipulation, that's probably something that'll have to be handled via a content revision; AFAIK, we usually go by what's on the profiles. (Unfortunately, TES seems to often be busy with a lot of revisions lately.)

The Vestige fighting a Nigh Omniscient God (& winning, if The Vestige canonically did win.) is a good feat, but it might be PIS &/or maybe overpowering; You did say they were boosted, & just because someone is a genius doesn't mean they can't be beaten down wtih brute force. How someone uses Nigh Omniscience & the presence of PIS/CIS can be a big impact on how useful it is to them, as well as what they can do besides; Intelligence isn't much good without some tools.

As for why Sun Wukong's Intelligence statistics doesn't mention his Buddhahood Nigh-Omniscience, nor detail how it applies, I don't have a clue. I'm not as knowledgeable about Journey to the West as I'd like to be, sadly.

 

[DMB_1]

To my knowledge, unless your Nigh-Omniscience is based on reading space-time, it's applicable only into your own verse.

 

[Imaginym]

That's fair. Also, questions that remain or have come up: Can an Omnipresent being dodge? How long does it take to burn an Buddhahood Sun Wukong's soul, given his Omnipresence? Isn't he one with the universe? If he duplicates himself, do his duplicates have souls, too?

Although, the duplicates open up another avenue: Just duplicating his Non-Corporeal self & assaulting The Vestige en masse (Can they even assault him physically while Non-Corporeal?) to exploit their Infinite Stamina vs his Superhuman.

Even if The Vestige has Low-Godly Regenerationn, it can still be beaten unconscious, no?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Sun Wukong was supposed to lose his 2-B key


But he's also missing like


A lot of hax

 

[Imaginym]

@ZacharyGrossman273: You mean his Low 2-C, likely 2-B key? What's the reason he had it? As in, the justification for the statistics it indicates, & the values as such, if you know? And what's the reason for its removal?

Would Sun Wukong just be Low 2-C, or lose that, too?

Also, a lot of hax? Link to relevant revisions, if any?

 

[KongKing23]

Legendary Artifacts would be the only things helping Vestige winning as they defied the tier system.

Otherwise, both sides are pretty damn close as all of them are quite immortal, immeasurable speed and equal AP. There is one aspect that I am not sure but it is pretty to discuss. Monkey King failed to dodge an omnipresent god, while Vestige already did with Nocturnal to Molag Bal or even Celestials. If this is true, Vestige might have a slight speed advantage to win against the King.

 

[Imaginym]

I thought Sun Wukong's profile said Infinite? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed

Although, now I'm wondering if Immeasurable Speedblitzes Infinite.

Also:

Infinite Speed (Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Teleportation does not count. For further information, see note 4 below.)

Immeasurable (Movement beyond linear time. This is why the speed cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see note 5 below.)

Would either or both of Sun Wukong & The Vestige can probably move even if Time is stopped for either of them, & same question regarding if they were stopped in time?

As for winning by speed, I'd question if it's enough against Omnipresence, Nigh-Omniscience, Non-Corporeal nature, Sun Wukong's Infinite vs Vestige's Superhuman Stamina, as well as Sun Wukong having Duplication.