A Song of Ice and Fire : Skinchanging Page, The Return.

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I made a thread months ago for a Verse Specific P&A page to be made for Skinchangers, but was denied because there weren't enough abilities. Which is no longer the case now.

Here are all the abilities shared by all skinchangers with a profile (Brynden Rivers, Varamyr, Brandon Stark, Arya Stark, Robb Stark, Jon Snow, the Children of the Forest and possibly Euron Greyjoy) :

Magic: Skinchanging is considered magical
Possession and Mind manipulation: Skinchangers can enter their consciousness/spirit into the minds of animals and humans to control their actions
Clairvoyance (Visual Linking): Skinchangers can see through the eyes of those they possess
Multiple Selves: A Skinchanger who begins to control an animal already possessed by another Skinchanger will see his mind/consciousness invaded by the latter.
Multilocation and Hive Mind: Skinchangers can temporarily take possession of all living beings, animals and plants, clouds and snow in a forest, and see through their "eyes"
Madness manipulation: Mental possession of a skinchanger on a human drives the latter violently mad, especially when the possession is not successful and the skinchanger cannot calm the target by controlling it
Immortality Type 6: Skinchangers can live a "Second Life" through an animal or a human they possessed when they died.
Immortality Negation Type 6 (or limited Immortality Negation Type 6): Skinchangers can prevent other Skinchangers from having a "Second Life" by forcing them out of an animal
Extrasensory Perception: It has been said that a Skinchanger can always recognize another Skinchanger
Limited Telepathy and Transformation : A bond can be made between a skinchanger and an animal, which makes it easier for humans to possess the animal and sometimes allows them to feel each other's emotions and feelings. The animal can also share the personality traits of the skinchanger with whom it has a strong bond, and conversely the skinchanger can also share the physical traits of the animal with which it has a strong bond.

It's fine ?

EDIT:
Sandbox

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Bobsican]

I suppose this can work out if the descriptions and powers given do indeed correlate inherently to all users of the power, as much as we don't have a page for magic in Final Fantasy in general as not everyone that can use magic learns every spell, for example.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I suppose this can work out if the descriptions and powers given do indeed correlate inherently to all users of the power, as much as we don't have a page for magic in Final Fantasy in general as not everyone learns every spell, for example.

Yes, all the powers I mentioned are inherent to skinchangers, without exception. The only problem is Multiple Selves, because not all the characters I mentioned have this ability, but they can if this thing happens: Multiple Selves: A Skinchanger who begins to control an animal already possessed by another Skinchanger will see his mind/consciousness invaded by the latter.

 

[Bobsican]

Something like that would be fine to list so long the semantics are mentioned, yes.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

the semantics ?

 

[Bobsican]

As in the power requiring some details at play to apply, but otherwise being something everyone with the power can at least theoretically have.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Okay.
In this case the page can be created or should I wait for the opinion of other members?

 

[Bobsican]

You need staff input as usual, yeah.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In general I dislike having pages where they aren't necessary- in this case, I think all of these concepts are simple enough to explain on each individual's page, rather than requiring a page on its own (as opposed to something such as, say, Sword Logic, which bears a proper core explanation).

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

In general I dislike having pages where they aren't necessary- in this case, I think all of these concepts are simple enough to explain on each individual's page, rather than requiring a page on its own (as opposed to something such as, say, Sword Logic, which bears a proper core explanation).

Verse Specific P&A pages are mainly used for this:

Regarding Verse-specific Powers and Abilities, keep in mind that these pages should only be made when at least 5 characters in total possess the relevant ability or a resistance to it, while also being indexed with them in this wiki, and said ability includes at least 10 other powers and abilities, in order to avoid redundant repetitions in character profiles.

 

[Bobsican]

This verse-specific page does meet the minimal amount of powers and so on, even if we left length at a side.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[PrinceofPein]

How many skin changers page do we have?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

How many skin changers page do we have?

7, possibly 8

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Should skinchanger's limitations and weaknesses be added to the page?

 

[PrinceofPein]

If it is accepted that the page be created, then yes

 

[Bobsican]

Should skinchanger's limitations and weaknesses be added to the page?

Of course.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I made a sandbox

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Verse Specific P&A pages are mainly used for this:

While this is perhaps a rude way of phrasing it, it is not often I get to actually use this quote

My opinion says no, especially given a couple of these seem... filler-y.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

My opinion says no, especially given a couple of these seem... filler-y.

I mean, these are abilities that have pages on this wiki.

If a page for the dragons of Game of Thrones has been accepted, I don't see why it can't be the case for skinchangers.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I don't see why it can't be the case for skinchangers.

especially when skinchanging is literally a magic system with its own rules and it would be super redundant to mention everything in seven different profiles

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean, these are abilities that have pages on this wiki.

If a page for the dragons of Game of Thrones has been accepted, I don't see why it can't be the case for skinchangers.

whataboutisms have never once won me over, nor have they inspired me to leave my apathetic coma-state and go fight against the other stupid things we occasionally do on the wiki

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

whataboutisms have never once won me over, nor have they inspired me to leave my apathetic coma-state and go fight against the other stupid things we occasionally do on the wiki

Well in this case change the rules about the Verse Specific P&A pages

 

[Bobsican]

It'd be a double standard to decline this verse-specific P&A when there's plenty more that meet the same criteria yet are fine with the current standards, so you'd have to change them in the first place at this point, yeah.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, it wouldn't be. I did not accept the other thread. I have made no double standard. I gave my opinion (a couple of these powers aren't things that actually need explaining, such as listing them under "magic"), so I don't think it should count. Now, you could say "well I'd rather get more staff consensus", because I am speaking on my opinion, that would be entirely fair. Saying "uh no you HAVE to accept it because I put MAGIC in there so now its more than TEN and the DRAGONS got accepted" is just an annoying take.

Like I have no doubt you can get this accepted. I just personally won't be the one to do it. Ffs.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Saying "uh no you HAVE to accept it because I put MAGIC in there so NOW ITS MORE THAN TEN AND THE DRAGONS GOT IT" is just an annoying take.

Like I have no doubt you can get this accepted. I just personally won't be the one to do it. Ffs.

So make a thread to change the rules, instead of coming here to complain to me in this way. You come to give your opinion but then you say yourself that it is useless because my thread will probably be accepted in any case, wtf.

I just respect the rules created by this wiki

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"Do not say your opinion unless you are willing to uproot the wiki's rules to make your opinion law"

I am not so deranged that I presume everyone shares my opinions. I presume most people also fit into this camp- that is, they possess a fundamental understanding that an opinion is not objective. Furthermore, I am also aware that as a human, we all have opinions. I came into this thread to evaluate it, and evaluated it based on my opinion- it won't be my ass that accepts this because there's the argument that exists that by filler alone it achieves our embarrassingly low standards.

If you post shit on the internet, you are going to hear an opinion every now and then. You have my condolences, homie.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

If you post shit on the internet, you are going to hear an opinion every now and then. You have my condolences, homie.

Yes and that's what I do too, my opinion is that your intervention is useless in this thread.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You seem like a very fun individual

Good luck with your thread, guy. Worse comes to worst, you can always add in "Superhuman Physical Characteristics"!

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

You seem like a very fun individual

Good luck with your thread, guy

Thanks

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Worse comes to worst, you can always add in "Superhuman Physical Characteristics"!

It would still be legit and I don't see any problems with it

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If you truly want a life free from hearing dissenting opinions such as mine, perhaps it would be a wise move to just... not reply, thus bringing me back to the thread.

I don't think what you have here should qualify, even under our current justifications- things like Magic (without belonging to any greater system, that is- in which case I'd say just make a page for that magic and make skinchanging a type or whatever) should not apply. Shit's goofy.

Cheers, though.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

If you truly want a life free from hearing dissenting opinions such as mine, perhaps it would be a wise move to just... not reply, thus bringing me back to the thread.

It does not bother me.

I don't think what you have here should qualify, even under our current justifications

Well, I've never seen that explanation in the rules.

- things like Magic (without belonging to any greater system, that is- in which case I'd say just make a page for that magic and make skinchanging a type or whatever) should not apply

So if I understand correctly for you Magic can't be quoted as a P&A in Verse Specific P&A pages ?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It does not bother me.


Well, I've never seen that explanation in the rules.


So if I understand correctly for you Magic can't be quoted as a P&A in Verse Specific P&A pages ?

You act as though it does

It is my interpretation of our rules that the abilities are such that they actually need explaining. Magic, as our example here, does not- it is itself the explanation. Hence my opinion that while I think you can convince others that this works, I don't think it does. As I said, good ******' luck, guy.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

You act as though it does

I don't mind differing opinions, only the way you express it

It is my interpretation of our rules that the abilities are such that they actually need explaining. Magic, as our example here, does not- it is itself the explanation. Hence my opinion that while I think you can convince others that this works, I don't think it does. As I said, good ******' luck, guy.

If that's the problem then it's no big deal. If you remove magic there will still be twelve more abilities