A small downgrade for Santana + Pillar Man/Vampire additions

[StrymULTRA]

Santana on his profile has Type 1 Immortality, which, however, is wrong. Pillar Men can become old, as shown in both manga and anime, with the latter even showcasing old and young Pillar Men. Heck, while that isn't needed that much, they still needed to reproduce, even if at a rate much, much lesser than humans. Santana should have his Type 1 Immortality removed and get Longevity instead, as he has 1/10th of Kars' age, who's at very least 100'000 years old.

This should also add to the powers granted from the Stone Mask Immortality Types 1, 2, 3 and 6 for Vampires (because of Dio having these) and Type 1 Immortality for Pillar Men.

Edit: I'd also like to add this scan to Dio's and Pillar Men profiles about confirming the Type 1 Immortality.

Edit 2: Shouldn't Pilar Men, Vanilla Ice and Straizo get Type 6 Immortality and Type 1 Self Sustenance for the same reason Dio has? They're no different than him there.

Edit 3: I think I should add this too to Kars' profile to prove him being stronger than Santana, as he killed alone the whole of his own race, with each member being comparable to Santana as only Kars at the time was empowered from the Stone Mask.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

looks good

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I agree with this

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Pillar Men reproducing and aging is certainly a good argument for them just having Longevity instead of Type 1 Immortality. Reproduction could be explained by them not being unkillable and their weakness to the sun but physical signs of old age occuring on top of that makes Type 1 Immortality rather implausible especially if there aren't any statements about Pillar Men being immortal without the effects of the Stone Mask.

The mask granting Immortality is part of what it does according to the characters, so I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm not sure about Pillar Men and vampires in general getting Immortality Type 6 through Dio though. Dio has Type 6 Immortality due to being able to steal Jonathan's body which was enabled by Dio being able graft his head onto it and grafting body parts together is something that Dio gained experience with during Part 1, so that isn't necessarily something he gained as soon as the Stone Mask turned him into a vampire.

Scans backing up the Immortality should be fine.

The Pillar Men and Vanilla Ice already have Self-Sustenance Type 1 with Dio as justification, so they don't need to have that added. The same can't be said for Straizo though and I would agree with him getting that addition. Also, if all vampires and Pillar Men have Self Sustenance Type 1, then that should probably be added to the powers that the Stone Mask grants.

Do we know if the Stone Mask was never used on Santana? It was presumably used on Esidisi and Wamuu, so if there is no particular reason for them to not have used it on Santana, then assuming that Santana's strength is representative of the standard strength of the members of his race at the time where they got slaughtered by Kars would be a stretch especially since Santana was still a baby at that time.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The mask granting Immortality is part of what it does according to the characters, so I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm not sure about Pillar Men and vampires in general getting Immortality Type 6 through Dio though. Dio has Type 6 Immortality due to being able to steal Jonathan's body which was enabled by Dio being able graft his head onto it and grafting body parts together is something that Dio gained experience with during Part 1, so that isn't necessarily something he gained as soon as the Stone Mask turned him into a vampire.

Thing is they're vampires as Dio and Dio was able to do so due to his vampire physiology. I don't know why other vampires shouldn't.

Also, if all vampires and Pillar Men have Self Sustenance Type 1, then that should probably be added to the powers that the Stone Mask grants.

K

Do we know if the Stone Mask was never used on Santana? It was presumably used on Esidisi and Wamuu, so if there is no particular reason for them to not have used it on Santana, then assuming that Santana's strength is representative of the standard strength of the members of his race at the time where they got slaughtered by Kars would be a stretch especially since Santana was still a baby at that time.

Kars straight up said that Santana coudn't keep up with their powers and was a puppy in comparison to them, and is clear as the sun that is much, much weaker than each of them, while the Mask gives to the Pillar Men much higher stats + powers, something that Santana lacks.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Thing is they're vampires as Dio and Dio was able to do so due to his vampire physiology. I don't know why other vampires shouldn't.

Kars straight up said that Santana coudn't keep up with their powers and was a puppy in comparison to them, and is clear as the sun that is much, much weaker than each of them, while the Mask gives to the Pillar Men much higher stats + powers, something that Santana lacks.

It's not that they are necessarily outright incapable of it but that they may not have as much expertise and skill at manipulating flesh as Dio. Dio also displayed other vampiric abilities he presumably acquired after the fight in the mansion against Jonathan that aren't applied to all vampires and the Pillar Men like his Vaporization Freezing Technique, Hypnosis and Necromancy and even the Flesh Buds from Part 3.

Isn't Santana being unable to keep up an additional reason to use the Stone Mask on him? Kars already had a functional Stone Mask at the time Santana and Wamuu were babies, so unless Santana was somehow incompatible with the mask, applying it on Santana was perfectly possible and for all we know Santana might have been much weaker than the other Pillar Men in Part 2 in spite of having the mask also used on him instead of because of it having for some reason not been used on him. Either way I doubt that each and every Pillar Men from before the Stone Mask was comparable to Santana especially since some were babies or old people and it's likely that different Pillar Men varied in strength to some degree like most people do.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's not that they are necessarily outright incapable of it but that they may not have as much expertise and skill at manipulating flesh as Dio. Dio also displayed other vampiric abilities he presumably acquired after the fight in the mansion against Jonathan that aren't applied to all vampires and the Pillar Men like his Vaporization Freezing Technique, Hypnosis and Necromancy and even the Flesh Buds from Part 3.

Issue is that's not even manipulation but simply using human body parts to replace the missing vampiric ones. Straizo when he was blown up showcased flesh manipulation like Dio, so I don't see why he shouldn't be able to so do as just a severed head.

Isn't Santana being unable to keep up an additional reason to use the Stone Mask on him? Kars already had a functional Stone Mask at the time Santana and Wamuu were babies, so unless Santana was somehow incompatible with the mask, applying it on Santana was perfectly possible and for all we know Santana might have been much weaker than the other Pillar Men in Part 2 in spite of having the mask also used on him instead of because of it having for some reason not been used on him. Either way I doubt that each and every Pillar Men from before the Stone Mask was comparable to Santana especially since some were babies or old people and it's likely that different Pillar Men varied in strength to some degree like most people do.

Wamuu was a baby among with Santana and yet he has powers and strenght comparable to the other two pillar men. Santana does not have any of those, meaning that he wasn't empowered from the Stone Mask. How he did not is a mystery, but the fact that the Pillar Men count him as the weakest ring and the differences in feats between Santana and the other members kinda give us more hints on Santana not getting the Mask unlike Wamuu.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Issue is that's not even manipulation but simply using human body parts to replace the missing vampiric ones. Straizo when he was blown up showcased flesh manipulation like Dio, so I don't see why he shouldn't be able to so do as just a severed head.

Wamuu was a baby among with Santana and yet he has powers and strenght comparable to the other two pillar men. Santana does not have any of those, meaning that he wasn't empowered from the Stone Mask. How he did not is a mystery, but the fact that the Pillar Men count him as the weakest ring and the differences in feats between Santana and the other members kinda give us more hints on Santana not getting the Mask unlike Wamuu.

Isn't that just regeneration though? That hasn't much to do with outright replacing one's entire body from the neck down with another person's. A vampire would need to be capable of neatly connecting and melding together the neckpieces of the head and the new body. It also appears that this process isn't entirely without complications since Dio needed Joseph's blood to fully adjust to Jonathan's body despite having had a 100 years time, so it stands to reason that someone who got turned into a vampire by the Stone Mask just recently would have a much harder time if they can even do it at all.

Santana outright had multiple Stone Masks at the place where he was hibernating, so if he or any of the other remaining Pillar Man wanted him to be empowered by the Stone Mask, then it would have been a simple affair. In that case he would be much weaker than the other Pillar Men even with the boost which would give an explanation for why they didn't really care much for him after awakening. Either way if you can't actually give a sound reason as to why he wouldn't be empowered by the Stone Mask, then scaling the entirety of the unempowered Pillar Men race off of him would be too speculative.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Isn't that just regeneration though? That hasn't much to do with outright replacing one's entire body from the neck down with another person's. A vampire would need to be capable of neatly connecting and melding together the neckpieces of the head and the new body. It also appears that this process isn't entirely without complications since Dio needed Joseph's blood to fully adjust to Jonathan's body despite having had a 100 years time, so it stands to reason that someone who got turned into a vampire by the Stone Mask just recently would have a much harder time if they can even do it at all.

Santana outright had multiple Stone Masks at the place where he was hibernating, so if he or any of the other remaining Pillar Man wanted him to be empowered by the Stone Mask, then it would have been a simple affair. In that case he would be much weaker than the other Pillar Men even with the boost which would give an explanation for why they didn't really care much for him after awakening. Either way if you can't actually give a sound reason as to why he wouldn't be empowered by the Stone Mask, then scaling the entirety of the unempowered Pillar Men race off of him would be too speculative.

Fair nuff. Should I apply what's accepted then?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Fair nuff. Should I apply what's accepted then?

If nobody else has any objections, then it should be alright but you might want to wait for more input to be sure though this shouldn't be a controversial matter as far as I can tell.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If nobody else has any objections, then it should be alright but you might want to wait for more input to be sure though this shouldn't be a controversial matter as far as I can tell.

Asked to Chariot.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Asked to Chariot.

Okay.

 

[Popted2]

i agree

 

[Chariot190]

Pillar Men can become old naturally yeah, but Kars' gang all took the Stone Mask though, they're all immortal. The thing is, while it's never said Santana used the Mask either, it's probably safe to assume he did given he was found in a cave with a **** ton of masks next time who and an scripture making note that he (actually Kars but not like Santana didn't have any) made the Mask's (to use on themselves) to conquer the sun (Failed but point is there was an attempt, they all definitely used them, failed, and is why they want Aja).


Santana should keep the Stone Mask stuff, he's definitely used it.

Edit 3: I think I should add this too to Kars' profile to prove him being stronger than Santana, as he killed alone the whole of his own race, with each member being comparable to Santana as only Kars at the time was empowered from the Stone Mask.

No because Santana definitely used the Mask, there's no way in hell he didn't when he came packaged with like two dozen of the things. The normal Pillar Men are unknown.
But it isn't like Kars ain't stronger than Santana, he is, by a fuckton, he's considered garbage to Kars, and Kars is also stated to be the strongest of the Pillar Men group as well. The fact Stroheim was designed to be a Santana killer and Stroheim was like oh **** we don't have a chance in hell against Kars makes it clear, there's a power gap.


Also basically flat out stated here Kars is > all 3 other Pillar Men (to varying degrees anyway).

Kars is >>>> Santana, but not for destroying his race, Santana should be well above them by the time he fights Joseph.

The rest is fine, we already know Pillar Men can body hop too, Esidisi body hopped onto Suzi Q as just a brain, if he wanted he very well could've stayed like that so Type 6 is aight imo.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Done all. This can be closed.