A New Type of Profile - Locations

[Antvasima]

Have we decided on any rules for what kind of locations pages that can be created yet?

 

[KieranH10]

I still personally believe that Locations for the likes of Gotham City and similarly notable areas should be more than valid for profiles. The discussion is still on this subject.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Lou_change]

To help Gotham City's case. mind control and other abilities exist that manipulate people, it's not really outside help if they don't have a side it's just an hazard, it also has the bat cave.

 

[Metalballrun]

Just a question, this can be deleted if it's not allowed.

Would places like Kurouzu-cho (from Junji Ito's Uzumaki) and Ramiris' Labyrinth be allowed if this new type of profile be allowed? Among other similar places.
Kurouzu-cho is where the Spiral/Uzumaki course resides, although this could be invalid as a profile for the Uzumaki curse could be made instead of the town where the curse resides.
Ramiris' Labyrinth is a very unique place, similar to a dungeon game but is an actual alternate pocket dimension, with one of its special features being that Ramiris' Servants like Beretta are granted Immortality Type 3/4 within it, as well as those who possess Revival Bracelets.

Though I suppose the problem would be how they might be difficult as a location for versus threads, though they might be good for fun and games.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, if they have noteworthy abilities then it's not necessary that they can function as arenas for a match

 

[KieranH10]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[KieranH10]

The general consensus seems to be mostly in agreement with this I believe, some are neutral, but I don't recall any full disagreements with this.

At the moment, we're generally talking about any changes to the profile template that would be needed, and more importantly, what would qualify for a profile. Of which I'm still under the impression that the likes of Gotham City and Avengers Tower would be more than valid for profiles, but I believe AKM still believes they are not.

I'm also still working on a draft for the general rules and regulations page that many believe would be needed, but cannot complete that until we've decided on such rules and regulations, which would need the current discussion to be concluded.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@AKM sama

Would you (and other staff and knowledgeable members here) be willing to help out further with this thread?

 

[AKM sama]

I've already provided my views on the topic and I maintain my stance. And I think Prom, Medeus and others were also in agreement with that. I don't have anything else to add.

 

[KieranH10]

Promestein seemed to only agree that native characters would simply not be allowed in battles if I'm understanding correctly.

Dark also only stated that making profiles only for fun & games battles would be pointless. Which I'm not arguing, I'm arguing that the locations are fine for profiles in general, obviously characters inside those profiles would not be allowed in regular battles since that would be classed under outside help.

With that though, just because we would not be allowed to make battles involving native characters, does not mean that those characters do not exist in that area, or that the area has nothing notable or worthy of indexing.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I am waiting for mathiverse to get a profile

 

[Chariot190]

I think this could be maybe ok.
Assuming it's actually super notable and unique with a variety of innate qualities that make it different from places we have irl to warrant the shit.

Off the top of my head, a place like the Morioh Alley (ghost alley, has a constant swarm of unknown entities trying to trick you. If one looks behind them they get dragged into the void and torn apart), or like, the titular Abyss from something like Made in Abyss (**** ton of weird wildlife and flora, along with a wide variety of hax and effects that can effect whoever delves into into it if they try and go back up, including at its worst, the loss of humanity or even death) or like Castlevania itself (assuming we don't treat that as a character).

But something like, mountain#9000, cityscape#69 and so on ain't worth it, because we'd end up with hundreds of them, even if one or two has a very slight difference here and there, it'd end up redundant very quickly, meaning, as badass as Gotham is, something like that is a bit useless.

But that's just my take, in that we should be conservative and only do location profiles for extremely unique locales.

 

[KieranH10]

If that is what others believe, I suppose that it should be that way.

We should wait to see what others think though. To be sure that this is the general consensus.

 

[Bobsican]

Promestein seemed to only agree that native characters would simply not be allowed in battles if I'm understanding correctly.

Dark also only stated that making profiles only for fun & games battles would be pointless. Which I'm not arguing, I'm arguing that the locations are fine for profiles in general, obviously characters inside those profiles would not be allowed in regular battles since that would be classed under outside help.

With that though, just because we would not be allowed to make battles involving native characters, does not mean that those characters do not exist in that area, or that the area has nothing notable or worthy of indexing.

Wait, because of this, shouldn't the place of SBA (New York City), be assumed to be simply empty in terms of inhabitants beyond the match-up participants?

 

[KieranH10]

Wait, because of this, shouldn't the place of SBA (New York City), be assumed to be simply empty in terms of inhabitants beyond the match-up participants?

Yes, ignoring characters in a location would mean SBA would make New York completely empty.

 

[Greenshifter]

This is not the case IIRC, I remember Ultron winning a match due to taking hostages a very long time ago.

 

[Bobsican]

The Standard Battle Assumptions page should be edited then

 

[Antvasima]

I've already provided my views on the topic and I maintain my stance. And I think Prom, Medeus and others were also in agreement with that. I don't have anything else to add.

Can somebody remind me about those viewpoints please?

 

[KieranH10]

For example, I don't think we need to make a profile for any real world location. We all know what New York is, or what the Savanna is. They offer no special property to index, and the properties they have are common knowledge. Similarly, I don't think fictional locations that are very close to any other real life location is needed either. Wakanda, Gotham, Avengers Tower, etc. don't really offer any property worth indexing and you can just specify a similar real life location (cities, big building, grasslands, etc.) in matches instead of those and nothing major will change.

I think we should limit the interference of other people and characters; as AKM says, this is separate from the intrinsic effects and properties of different locations.

I will say this, locations meant to give certain verse specific characters powers than they do not have anywhere else are the ultimate reasons to support locations. But places like Gotham don't make Batman any more overpowered than he would be in New York City. Also, Fun and Games boards literally allow us to ignore the tiering system outright, merge Joke Battles wiki, FC/OC Wiki, and VSBW wiki into one wiki for character access. So honestly, making profiles specific for Fun and Games is literally pointless.

I believe that these are the current stances.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine to me.

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

I dont see why anyone has an issue like this. I 100% Agree with the idea of a profile like this. Having it be easily available where X fighter can be or where they might get a homefield advantage might lead to some matchups that might've been much harder for people to imagine.

However I can also see some issues with this in the term of how some scaling could be seen is "oh no". Like Dimentio has Dimension D, which would "multiply" the power of Dimentio, Mario, and Mario's partner by 256. Not sure how this would affect scaling, and this is most-likely just 1 of many areas in many verses that are like this.

 

[Antvasima]

So is somebody willing to write some regulations/instructions based on what AKM, Promestein and Medeus said above?

 

[KieranH10]

They don't seem to be referring to the same outcome in those posts if I'm understanding correctly.

 

[Antvasima]

They seem to cover different relevant aspects of what we need to take into account.

If somebody writes a draft, I can try to clean up the language flow afterwards.

 

[Promestein]

I can write up my own take on the template.

I also don't think we should just throw out environmental features if they may affect a match. It's a part of the environment characters should adapt to accommodate, and it makes debates more interesting. That's just my take. 'Environmental features' are not outside help. Other entities interfering are outside help.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I agree with this, we should had this kind of location long time ago

However something like a generic cities/landscape should'nt be included as pages

 

[KieranH10]

I can write up my own take on the template.

I also don't think we should just throw out environmental features if they may affect a match. It's a part of the environment characters should adapt to accommodate, and it makes debates more interesting. That's just my take. 'Environmental features' are not outside help. Other entities interfering are outside help.

The Template is done, we simply need some standards written out.

I don't mind helping out since I've done little parts of a draft, but may not have a lot of time in the next few days or so, since I'm busy with some personal stuff.

 

[Promestein]

I would want to reorganize it a bit.

 

[KieranH10]

Feel free to make some changes to the Sandboxes in the OP then if you wish.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that I think that being surrounded by civilians that need to be rescued would count as outside help.

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

I can write up my own take on the template.

I also don't think we should just throw out environmental features if they may affect a match. It's a part of the environment characters should adapt to accommodate, and it makes debates more interesting. That's just my take. 'Environmental features' are not outside help. Other entities interfering are outside help.

I agree with that to a degree. If I had two people fighting in an environment where "X" was frequent, with "X" being things such as unstable terrain, horrible weather, lack of breathable substances, etc. Then I think those should be allowed. However,

Just a note that I think that being surrounded by civilians that need to be rescued would count as outside help.

Cases like This I dont think should be taken into account as 'environmental features' when it comes to what would happen in a battle. Otherwise Party 1 could just take a hostage and party 2 would be like "aw man I cant hurt my peoples" and then we get a sweet incon or win for Party 1 due to making Party 2 unable to hurt him, which is weird to think about in that sense.


Or we could just ban civilians from existing as the standard unless OP of that match says otherwise.

 

[Lou_change]

Location: Central Park, New York City. The location can be left during the course of battle. If extreme advantages are generated via this location to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

Location: Central Park, New York City. The location can be left during the course of battle. If extreme advantages are generated via this location to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.

That seems fine, but you also gotta think that some media have created slighty alternate version of a location, For example, the amount of different "Peach's castle" we've seen is an unhealthy amount.

 

[Lou_change]

We state the version

 

[Promestein]

I'll just put it here.

---

Name:

Origin:

Classification:

Location:

Size:

Environment:

• Composition:

Passive Effects:

Hazards:

Notable Inhabitants:

Notable Areas:

Other Features:

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Promestein.

As I mentioned earlier, I think that locations with inhabitants that can cause serious handicaps and distractions should be avoided though.

 

[KieranH10]

I'll just put it here.
snip

I have added that to the Sandbox.

As I mentioned earlier, I think that locations with inhabitants that can cause serious handicaps and distractions should be avoided though.

I think the consensus is if the location has special features that make it notable enough, but also has characters housed in it, then it should be made. But if the locations only noteworthy feature is said characters, then it would warrant a profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, hostages and bystanders do not create a fair fight for our purposes.