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A New Type of Profile - Locations

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KieranH10

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Okie Dokie, second big CRT of the month i'm doing... Please don't kill me for this one, it's a pretty big thing...

As an Indexing Wiki, VS Battles Wiki focuses on indexing our favorite parts of fiction, many of our users enjoy creating profiles for everything we love about our series, games, comics, and more, and as a Versus Debating wiki, we can give our battles different options and variables to fit our liking, whether it be fun and games battles, or serious versus threads. Be it giving characters weapons, vehicles, or more.

Currently on VS Battles Wiki we generally have 3 types of standard profiles we can make, Characters, Weapons (Which includes Vehicles), and Civilizations (We also obviously have Verses and Powers, but these are a kinda different case imo). I plan to bring this up 2 more in the sorta nearby future, starting with this one.

The Premise:
On VSB we are given the option to place a battle in a location of our choice while debating, but many times it is used, images must be given anyways to show where a location is. Or readers simply don't know about the place in question.

I propose a way to solve this issue: Location Profiles.

Location Profiles would be a type of profile that can be linked in battles to give users an idea of what the arena used looks like.

With Location profiles we can index potential arenas for characters, give environmental hazards, and more. Obviously anything notably dangerous in an environment would only partake in a battle if the user wanted it to.

Location profiles could involve anything from noteworthy buildings in fiction, to entire countries, or even planets, etc.

I have created a potential Template for such a profile Here, with a few examples of what an actual Location Profile would look like Here.

Location profiles could include the likes of:
  • Arks (Ark: Survival Evolved)
  • New York City (The Real World)
  • Avengers Tower (Marvel)
  • Mos Eisley Cantina (Star Wars)
  • The Crater (Subnautica)
  • The Sinnoh Region (Pokemon)
  • Westview (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
  • The End (Minecraft)
  • Endor (Star Wars)
  • Metropolis (DC Comics)
  • Isla Sorna (Jurassic Park)
  • Hell (DOOM)
  • Wakanda (Marvel)
Specifics:
Another potential point for Location Profiles is that some characters are fought exclusively in a special arena, which would arguably be a necessity to note on their profiles as some of the arenas offer necessary information about how a character fights or how a battle with them would go. Instead of just bringing this location up arbitrarily in a battle with no information, I believe an optional extra section on profiles would be in order, along the lines of a "Standard Arena", which would link to an Arena Profile of such areas.

Some characters who come to mind that would be affected by this would be:
  • The Ender Dragon (Has a home advantage in the End thanks to End Crystals, and more).
  • The Trial of Maligog (A boss from Doom Eternal, the Trial is an event that only takes place in its arena canonically, to give it a profile of just the cube thingies would be the hugest understatement on the planet).
  • Many Pokemon Gym Leaders will fight in their Gym by standard, which often have their own special properties.
  • The Overseer and Guardians of the Arks will only appear in their arenas. as will most bosses in Ark.
Another noteworthy point is characters of which certain areas would technically come under standard equipment or attacks, or characters who can create said areas as feats. Many characters can also BFR opponents to other realms, so it would be helpful to know the properties of said realms in a fight. It would be much easier to simply have a profile for said area and link it on the characters page for each of these scenarios. This one is a little harder to explain so I'll give a few examples:
  • Wanda Maximoff (Marvel Cinematic Universe): Created the borders of Westview subconsciously from her guilt and emotion.
  • Overseers have total control over the Arks they inhabit, and can control and manipulate the climate and ecosystems.
  • Davoth has power over Hell, and corrupted Jekkad to create the realm.
  • Doctor Strange can BFR or bring opponents to the Mirror Dimension.
  • Po can BFR opponents into the Spirit Realm.
There is also the point that some places are worth indexing on the Wiki, but the profiles that we allow are not really sufficient to get a good idea of such and area. Some areas are massive plot points in their stories, and are treated like an entity in their story rather than just a location. But are not technically actually characters. These would deserve profiles, but once again we cannot bring to light most relevant detail on a Character profile. Some of these would include:
Many Civilization profiles would also benefit from these profiles. As Civilizations often have an area they are located in, sometimes fortified (MCU Wakanda has a large forcefield hiding and protecting the Country). Giving a civilization a profile stating where their turf is, and how it's defended, armed, and more would greatly help the profiles be understood better by our users, and would allow us to get more information across. Some Civilizations I can think of that would benefit from this would be:
This could even help with Cosmologies. Say we made a location profile for Hell from Doom, Hell contributes to a decent portion of Dooms Cosmology, so I believe it could even be helpful in similar cases to that. These would help Cosmology Blogs even further and give users an understanding without walls of text, they can be linked in Cosmology Blogs as Location Profiles, and users will understand their scope, properties, and anything else relevant between the Blogs and the Profile. Some of which I can think of would be:
  • Doom (Hell and Urdak are both notable in the Cosmology)
  • Minecraft (The Overworld, the Nether, and the End are all part of the Cosmology)
  • Marvel (While i'm not fully knowledgeable in Marvel, I'm sure the likes of The House of Ideas, The Dark Realm, The Nine Realms, Overspace, Battleworld, and the Beyond-Realm would help here)
  • DC (Same case as Marvel, but the Monitor Sphere, Sphere of the Gods, Speed Force, the Source, and Overvoid could also fall into these profiles and help people understand the Cosmology)
Issues:
One potential issue I see with these profiles is that some location profiles would overlap, for example, lets say there was a profile for Tatooine from Star Wars, and also one for Mos Eisley Cantina. These would overlap slightly since Mos Eisley is located on Tatooine, but this can easily be fixed by simply adding a link to a Mos Eisley profile on the Tatooine page in the notable areas section, and wouldn't be a massive issue anyways.

Another issue would be that some locations can also qualify as other types of profiles. Profiles such as Ego the Living Planet would be valid for both a Character Profile, and a Location Profile. Objects such as the Death Star or Starkiller Base would be another case, as it has a weapon Profile, but would also qualify for a Location Profile, and an extreme case would be Hell (Doom), which already merges two profiles (As both a Character, and a Civilisation) and would also qualify for a Location Profile, making it 3 profile types in total.
We would need to find a way to solve this issue, of which I have two potential solutions:
  • Merge the Profiles:Like has been done with Hell (Doom), we could merge the two profile types into one mega-profile, this has shown to work with Hell, and would likely work with most profiles pretty well. All of the information about an area/character/civ would be included on one singular profile.
    • Upon suggestion, there are examples of how this solution would look Here (Ego the Living Planet, and Hell, which is likely among the more extreme cases)
  • Name the Profiles Accordingly: A simple approach would be to simply reference that the profile is a Location Profile, which would solve the naming issue, and stop confusion. Naming Profiles "X (Location)" and "X (Character/Civilisation/Weapon)" would solve the problem completely.

Rules:
Obviously we will need rules regarding a new type of profile, these would be pretty simple to apply, as they would generally follow the same rules as our other profiles. Plus a few of their own.

Now obviously having certain arenas that give disadvantages to both characters would not be ideal for Versus Debating, so this would have to be countered with a rule along the lines of:
  • "Most environmental features will not factor into a battle as they would be classed as outside help. If environmental features are wanted to be included in a battle, it must be on the Fun and Games forum."
    • This would keep any hazards optional, but if a user wants to use them, it would be a Fun and Games fight
    • This could also be a note on the Template
However I believe that if a Location is a Standard Arena for a character, it would be fair to allow it in real battles. So I believe the rule should be as follows:
  • "Should a character only regularly fight in a certain arena, then they may be allowed in a regular versus thread, and the results of said thread may be added to the Characters Profile. Though it must be noted that the Arena has been utilized in this case."
Basically I believe that the rule should be: If the Arena is Standard to the Character in some way (Whether they only fight in it, can BFR to or Create the Realm, or the Realm itself acts as a form of equipment for another character, then it's fine to add to real battles. However if it is an optional arena simply added to a battle for fun, then it goes in the Fun and Games Board, and can not be added to Profiles as a real fight.

TL;DR - New kind of Profile for Locations.
  • Pros:
    • Another kind of profile for users who enjoy indexing to create.
    • Some characters have a "Standard Arena" which would help users understand how they fight.
    • Some characters directly use a location as a form of attack or equipment in battle, knowing how said location works would be incredibly helpful.
    • Some locations are more than worth indexing on this site, but do not fit into the current profile types we have.
    • Greatly helps users understand a location being used in a battle.
    • Gives some more options for battles.
    • Civilizations often have a standard turf/base of operations, knowing this can help us understand the civilization better.
    • Could help users understand Cosmology and go in arms with Cosmology Blogs
  • Cons:
    • Some could potentially overlap (Already have a given solution)
    • Some could potentially be characters too (Already have two given solutions)

So, umm. Yeah...
Some may argue this aint necessary, I think it would be helpful in many ways and can just be another fun thing we could do.
Those Who Agree (17): Greenshifter, Arceus0x, Yar_R_agi_7k, XSOULOFCINDERX, Gewsbumpz_dude, OwenVanmaun, Roachman40, Bobsican, Lou_change, Psychomaster35, Ogbunabali, InfiniteDay, ArmorChompy, QuasiYuri, Dante_Demon_Killah, Ultima_Reality, GilverTheProtoAngelo, Mr_Bambu, I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die,

Those Who Disagree (0):

Suggestions for improvement/changes:
Abstractions:
  • If an environment lets characters take advantage of their strengths more, like Camouflage and whatnot, they should be acceptable in matches, as it would rely on the characters still getting the better of one another or use some of their intelligence to take advantage of their environment, and intellect isn't something we often see used when debating.
    • If things are intentionally crippling for one character, things can be labelled a stomp and the environment be removed from the equation or changed.
Lou_change:
ArmorChompy:
  • Locations may be able to fight in battles under certain circumstances. Characters could be placed in a dangerous environment and we may discuss if they would survive said location.
 
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This looks like a good idea to me and you seem to have worked it out really nicely. I have some location ideas myself and am willing to help out with the DC ones.
 

KieranH10

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Naicu! Glad you think so, I've been planning (and dreading) this for a few months now.

I want to make it clear that this thread is also open to any ideas since if this is made it should be as good as it can be, and I'm out of ideas lol.
 

Rez

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Issues:
One potential issue I see with these profiles is that some location profiles would overlap, for example, lets say there was a profile for Tatooine from Star Wars, and also one for Mos Eisley Cantina. These would overlap slightly since Mos Eisley is located on Tatooine, but this can easily be fixed by simply adding a link to a Mos Eisley profile on the Tatooine page in the notable areas section, and wouldn't be a massive issue anyways.
Why not just make the profile for the planet and mention the locations in it
 

KieranH10

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Why not just make the profile for the planet and mention the locations in it
If you mean adding the details of all of the locations on the planet to the Planet profile. That was an early idea, but it clogs up the profile massively, and would just make enormous walls of information. It would be much more efficient to have separate profiles. Much like we often have profiles for individual units or members in Civilization Pages.
 

Rez

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If you mean adding the details of all of the locations on the planet to the Planet profile. That was an early idea, but it clogs up the profile massively, and would just make enormous walls of information. It would be much more efficient to have separate profiles. Much like we often have profiles for individual units or members in Civilization Pages.
No I mean making an specific location related profile for the planet which only deals with the battle locations located on the said planet but yeah I understand even this might be a bit too much
 

KieranH10

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No I mean making an specific location related profile for the planet which only deals with the battle locations located on the said planet but yeah I understand even this might be a bit too much
Yes, the Planet would be valid for a profile. But it would be difficult to go into detail on every notable building generally since there would be a whole lot of such. So each notable area on said planet would also warrant a profile, that can simply be linked on the Planet's profile.
Kinda like a profile family tree in a way, many profiles of varying scale would be able to branch off of one another.
 
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sorry but i had to do at least one funny location. I am legit hyped for this, this would help the cosmologies a lot.
Would multiverses count?
 

KieranH10

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sorry but i had to do at least one funny location. I am legit hyped for this, this would help the cosmologies a lot.
Would multiverses count?
I'm unsure, It would be very helpful to do such. But I would assume if it were to happen, we'd at very least need something like a disambiguation page for Multiverses. Since pretty much anything beyond tier 2 would likely have some kinda Multiversal Structure.

Then again, I'd also assume most Multiverses would likely just be the same profile in most ways. Since I personally cant think of any real examples of a Multiverse that isn't just "Something that contains a number of Universes"
 
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Just wondering, but would something like the Mathiverse receive a profile because of this? As that was deemed more a location than a character
 
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I skimmed through it since I don't have much time on my hands right now but I'll go back and read it all later.

It looks very good so far, but I'm not sure how your solution to the overlapping thing would really work out in practice. Yeah we have DOOM's Hell as an example, but that's really only one example out of the many potential profiles that could overlap between these different formats. I'd suggest maybe attempting to create a few sandboxes for these merged profiles to see how they turn out before actually going forward and implementing them as actual pages.
 

KieranH10

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Just wondering, but would something like the Mathiverse receive a profile because of this? As that was deemed more a location than a character
Most likely. While I'm not massively knowledgeable myself on the MathiVerse case, from what I've heard it would likely fit the standard.
It looks very good so far, but I'm not sure how your solution to the overlapping thing would really work out in practice. Yeah we have DOOM's Hell as an example, but that's really only one example out of the many potential profiles that could overlap between these different formats. I'd suggest maybe attempting to create a few sandboxes for these merged profiles to see how they turn out before actually going forward and implementing them as actual pages.
That is a good idea actually. I'll make a few sandboxes for the examples I mentioned when I get a bit of time.
 
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an example. "Another Dimension" from Kirby is pretty much confirmed a 2-C multiverse (either effi or me are gonna make a crt about the info hopefully soon). Would that kind of thing be allowed or not?
 

KieranH10

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an example. "Another Dimension" from Kirby is pretty much confirmed a 2-C multiverse (either effi or me are gonna make a crt about the info hopefully soon). Would that kind of thing be allowed or not?
I'm unsure since I'm not too certain on Kirby myself. Profiles would have to follow the same rules that we already have, so it would likely be helpful to propose a profile as a CRT first to make sure those that are knowledgeable on such would confirm it's correct.

I'd personally say that if it's notable enough to the series, most things should pass through though much like our other profiles, we obviously wouldn't be making profiles for "Building #3 second to the left in scene 45" though for obvious reasons. But if it's worth something in the series, it's worth something here.
definitely yes
Okie dokie.
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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Neutral on this, but I like the idea. Especially if locations can help out for certain characters or whether or not certain characters will have access to certain weapons, powers or abilities.
 

Abstractions

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I think the concept is fairly interesting and actually quite enjoy the idea of it, if executed properly.

"Most environmental features will not factor into a battle as they would be classed as outside help. If environmental features are wanted to be included in a battle, it must be on the Fun and Games forum."
I actually don't think this should be the case, surprisingly. Environments can be used to even a playing field that would otherwise be weighted towards one party.

Say we put some extremely skilled gunslinger vs. someone with a sword in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, it becomes rather unfair because there's no obstacles to obscure the range user's vision or inhibit their line of sight.

Lava pits or spiked pits like in Mortal Kombat end up being threatening to both parties in the given scenario, so things like this don't exactly shift the odds one way or another. Context makes it important, but I think environments are nice to make fights more fun or happen in a more balanced way.

If an environment lets characters take advantage of their strengths more, like Camouflage and whatnot, I'm all for them being acceptable in matches, as it would rely on the characters still getting the better of one another or use some of their intelligence to take advantage of their environment, and intellect isn't something we often see used when debating.

Of course if things are intentionally crippling for one character, things can be labelled a stomp and the environment be removed from the equation or changed.
 

KieranH10

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Neutral on this, but I like the idea. Especially if locations can help out for certain characters or whether or not certain characters will have access to certain weapons, powers or abilities.
I believe these profiles would be a great benefit to our current profiles and verses, yes.
I think the concept is fairly interesting and actually quite enjoy the idea of it, if executed properly.
Do you think that the current Sandbox in the OP seems good enough? Is there anything you would add or that you think is missing?
I actually don't think this should be the case, surprisingly. Environments can be used to even a playing field that would otherwise be weighted towards one party.

Say we put some extremely skilled gunslinger vs. someone with a sword in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, it becomes rather unfair because there's no obstacles to obscure the range user's vision or inhibit their line of sight.

Lava pits or spiked pits like in Mortal Kombat end up being threatening to both parties in the given scenario, so things like this don't exactly shift the odds one way or another. Context makes it important, but I think environments are nice to make fights more fun or happen in a more balanced way.

If an environment lets characters take advantage of their strengths more, like Camouflage and whatnot, I'm all for them being acceptable in matches, as it would rely on the characters still getting the better of one another or use some of their intelligence to take advantage of their environment, and intellect isn't something we often see used when debating.

Of course if things are intentionally crippling for one character, things can be labelled a stomp and the environment be removed from the equation or changed.
This makes a lot of sense. Perhaps the rule should be altered and toned down a little to allow for Arena's to be used in matches if they make them more fair. I still believe that using an arena to purposefully give a character an advantage when it isn't needed or makes the match very one-sided should not be allowed, as these would obviously be borderline, if not outright stomps.
 
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I extremely agree with the OP.
However, what would qualify as "hazards"? As while someone well-versed on the site can guess it means to any animated being, the term can also be misunderstood as any sort of threat to either participant (such as the place in question being full of spikes or having passive hax).
I also don't think they exactly fall as outside help as the external content isn't necessarily sided for either participant, and may even be just against both or indifferent beyond what one of the two may do.
 
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So currently are areas unrelated to the characters fighting allowed.
I agree with this by the way but I have a question do the inhabitants just make sure that they don't get involved, do they act like they would act normally in this situation for them.
 

KieranH10

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However, what would qualify as "hazards"? As while someone well-versed on the site can guess it means to any animated being, the term can also be misunderstood as any sort of threat to either participant (such as the place in question being full of spikes or having passive hax).
I also don't think they exactly fall as outside help as the external content isn't necessarily sided for either participant, and may even be just against both or indifferent beyond what one of the two may do.
I think the likes of Spikes and more would fall under Hazards. Anything that is hazardous that is part of the environment I suppose.
So currently are areas unrelated to the characters fighting allowed.
That is be being discussed as of now. Some people believe that this would be fine. I personally believe that Locations could make battles one sided and can favor certain characters that would not normally be their regular fighting area.
I have a question do the inhabitants just make sure that they don't get involved, do they act like they would act normally in this situation for them.
That is a good question, this could be another option for battle rules.


Now that I think of it, it may be worth creating a sort of "Location Rules" page for editing, creating, and using Locations in battles.
 
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That is be being discussed as of now. Some people believe that this would be fine. I personally believe that Locations could make battles one sided and can favor certain characters that would not normally be their regular fighting area.
I mean both lines of logic are correct for example having battles in the vacuum of space would screw over a ton of characters but having powers like elemental manipulations that requires the elements there to work, underground movement, stealth Mastery, surface scaling, camouflage, acrobatics, construction all are very weak to certain locations, but the thing is Standard Battle Assumptions already approves of battle locations other than central park if it makes battles more fair perhaps threads that use locations should have to go through match up addition requests before being allowed to be added or a thread just for that.
 
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how is it when the smallest revision threads happen they'll always be there but when there's a whole colossal change being applied they are just gone?
 

Antvasima

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@Antvasima @Promestein @AKM sama

This is a pretty big subject so I feel like I should ask you here. How do you feel about this?
I am uncertain, as this has very little to do with indexing statistics, which is our objective, and we would likely have to largely almost wholesale copy information from the related wikis in order to provide useful information.

Also, these types of wiki policy and/or structural revisions threads should always be placed in our staff forum from the start. I should probably move this thread and then ask our staff members to help out here.
 

KieranH10

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I am uncertain, as this has very little to do with indexing statistics, which is our objective, and we would likely have to largely almost wholesale copy information from the related wikis in order to provide useful information.
It has quite a lot to do with indexing our other profiles, helping with battles and stats, and overall improving verses. Whilst also making them easier to understand for newcomers or even regulars.

I have tried to keep the profile layout moreso to do with our needs, to avoid this problem. I believe that saying that this would simply be taking information from other wikis would be just as valid a point for Characters or Weapons, we're indexing features and statistics of these things, of course there will be similar information on two different profiles for the same thing.
Also, these types of wiki policy and/or structural revisions threads should always be placed in our staff forum from the start. I should probably move this thread and then ask our staff members to help out here.
My apologies, I didn't know this would need to be a staff thread first. Feel free to move it if you wish.
 

Damage3245

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Personally I don't object to the concept of the page type, but its usefulness depends on its format. How would the page be structured? What kind of information do we need for all types of locations? If a location is frequently used by or ran by a certain character, do we note that down?

Also, if a match-up happens in a certain location, do we link to that match-up on the location page after it is done? I think we'd need scrollboxes for some of them eventually because popular locations will get a lot of match-ups.

Preventing overlap in some of the pages would be important to me. I don't want to see twenty different New York pages from different verses.
 

KieranH10

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How would the page be structured? What kind of information do we need for all types of locations? If a location is frequently used by or ran by a certain character, do we note that down?
Many of those questions are answered in the OP.
Also, if a match-up happens in a certain location, do we link to that match-up on the location page after it is done? I think we'd need scrollboxes for some of them eventually because popular locations will get a lot of match-ups.
That is a good question and a valid problem. I don't believe we should leave this information on the Location Profiles, and simply leave it on the actual characters who fought. Along the lines of "Character A (Verse) (Fight took place in New York City)" with New York City linking to a New York Profile.
Preventing overlap in some of the pages would be important to me. I don't want to see twenty different New York pages from different verses.
That would not happen, if we were to make a New York page, it would be the real world's version. Any New Yorks that differ in fiction only seemingly differ with the likes of an extra notable building or so, so those buildings would warrant Profiles, and their location would link to the Real World New York.

If there is a "New York" that is completely different from our real world equivalent, like incomparable, I see no reason why it wouldn't warrant another Profile of its own personally.
 

Ogbunabali

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It's an interesting idea. The template looks good too. Seems rather harmless, we could already do different locations and settings and whatnot, and having a more centralized and controlled version of them could be good. They're also not something that's mandatory or something so, I'm fine with this.
 
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This idea seems okay, and I'm more in favor of Abstraction's version of the rule in regards to the arenas being used
 
Question. Would this include active abilities that create pocket realities? Also, what about locations of being inside a characters "mind" or "mental scape" Instead of a physical location? My question is how do these translate into verus threads.
 

KieranH10

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The Profiles would help any character who makes a notable Pocket Reality or something similar as it would list the effects and scope, etc, of the created area. Which can help determine how a battle may go.

I see no reason why a Location inside a mind or similarly, in a Program of such. As long as these still have tangible scale in-verse, then they should be fine. I believe it would fall under Reality Equalization.
 
What about locations where it's specified that only souls can exist there and the verse goes into extreme detail about it? (The soul is separated from the physical body (resulting in death of the individual) to reach that location.)
 

KieranH10

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What about locations where it's specified that only souls can exist there and the verse goes into extreme detail about it? (The soul os separated from the physical body to reach that location.)
That seems like a pretty specific example. The Location would have Soul Manipulation specified on its profile, but I'd assume that Reality Equalization would kick in anyway? If not, I would also assume a Soul would likely have similar powers to its host anyway.
I like this idea, count me as an agreement, I also agree with Abs' comment
Okie dokie.

I'm gonna make a note of suggestions in the OP, so they can be remembered and discussed.
 
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What about locations where it's specified that only souls can exist there and the verse goes into extreme detail about it? (The soul is separated from the physical body (resulting in death of the individual) to reach that location.)
Then it would likely be banned from matches with this hazard active unless it's equipment or location a character the create or summon. But reality equalization might work as said above however souls having the powers of their host varies from verse to verse I recommend verses without an explanation for souls will use their opponent's definition as needed.
 

KieranH10

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I suppose that the draft seems quite good from what I can see:
Thank you! I put some work into balancing ideas I had for it.
i'm sure someone could come up with some stuff to change so we should wait for some opinions
I completely agree.


I would also like to bring up this point again:
I'd suggest maybe attempting to create a few sandboxes for these merged profiles to see how they turn out before actually going forward and implementing them as actual pages.
As I have made an example of what merging the different types of profiles would look like. One with Ego, a relatively basic example of interlocking profiles, and one with Hell, a relatively extreme example, which merges 3 types of profile (Since it already merges 2).

I personally think that this works, but I can see others thinking its relatively messy, at least in Hell's case. So I would like some opinions.
 
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Also, some regulations will be needed to avoid allowing any kind of location whatsoever, otherwise users will start indexing quite irrelevant places for our purposes that would be better suited in their respective wiki.
For example, indexing the yard of the Backyardigans.
 

Armorchompy

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seems good to me, even if the Hell profile might be messy in theory it's perfectly comprehensible when reading it, and it's an extreme case as you said
 

KieranH10

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Also, some regulations will be needed to avoid allowing any kind of location whatsoever, otherwise users will start indexing quite irrelevant places for our purposes that would be better suited in their respective wiki.
I agree that any random house that appears in a series should not warrant a profile for obvious reasons. I'm working on actually writing out standards and rules for the pages and will likely have a sandbox/blog ready soon.
 

KieranH10

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We could add a part for notable weapons and vehicles but they can probably go under hazards or stay hidden in features.
Do you mean separating the Notable weapons/etc option from the "Other Notable Features" section?
 

KieranH10

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That might work. I'll add it to the suggestions so that it can be discussed.
 

Armorchompy

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Here's an idea I just had, how about using the location for a match? Not as an arena, as the primary antagonist in a match. Take the X-Men Danger Room or the prison they held Tai Lung from Kung Fu panda in. I understand it might be complex but I think "person vs location" would be a pretty fun brand of matches.
 

KieranH10

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Here's an idea I just had, how about using the location for a match? Not as an arena, as the primary antagonist in a match. Take the X-Men Danger Room or the prison they held Tai Lung from Kung Fu panda in. I understand it might be complex but I think "person vs location" would be a pretty fun brand of matches.
I actually had this idea myself. I believe that would be absolutely fine for a Fun and Games thread. But it would be difficult to properly note on profiles, since in a way it wouldn't really be a battle. More "Will it survive".

I will leave it in the suggestions since I think it is a really good idea, but am unsure how we could properly handle it.
 

DontTalkDT

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Hmmm.... I remember rejecting location profiles before. Does anyone else remember that thread? I'm not sure why anymore, though. Might have been because the profiles had weird stuff like Tiers and AP, which doesn't apply to this. Or just because we had no such structure in place at the time.

What's the exact difference between location and classification? Both mention "City" for example.

Maybe calling P&A's "Passive Effects" or something instead would make sense? Feels weird to say that a place has an ability.

We definitely would need rules on relevance. Being popular or story relevant for a verse should not factor into that. More so being unique. They should also have some "theme" to them. What I mean is, for example, that there is probably no point doing a location profile for the Earth as a whole given that, depending on where on earth you start, the conditions of the battlefield would vastly differ. So just the information that it's on Earth wouldn't tell you much.

Maybe there should be something like "Composition"? How much, if any, water, sand, stone, air, wood, snow or animals are available can be relevant for many characters.
 

Mr._Bambu

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Was shocked to see this was Kieran's thread given myself and Zark were discussing this over Discord in the past weeks. Perhaps this is a natural conclusion that everyone was reaching at once.

I agree with their existence, now regarding DT: I don't think "passive" is a good phrase to shoehorn in with "effects" (though I do agree with the name). A location may need an effect to be activated somehow. Just a thought.

Other than that I guess I agree with his points though Composition may leave many pages left with a somewhat barebones section.
 

KieranH10

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Hmmm.... I remember rejecting location profiles before. Does anyone else remember that thread? I'm not sure why anymore, though. Might have been because the profiles had weird stuff like Tiers and AP, which doesn't apply to this. Or just because we had no such structure in place at the time.
I don't recall such a thread personally. Must have been before my time here.
What's the exact difference between location and classification? Both mention "City" for example.
Location is where the Area in the profile is located on a grander scale (A building being in a city for example), Classification is what the location itself classes as.
Maybe calling P&A's "Passive Effects" or something instead would make sense? Feels weird to say that a place has an ability.
I guess this makes sense. I'm unsure what it would be changed to however, I personally feel passive effects would not work too well. As some locations can somehow use their abilities actively thanks to their creators or other.
We definitely would need rules on relevance. Being popular or story relevant for a verse should not factor into that. More so being unique. They should also have some "theme" to them. What I mean is, for example, that there is probably no point doing a location profile for the Earth as a whole given that, depending on where on earth you start, the conditions of the battlefield would vastly differ. So just the information that it's on Earth wouldn't tell you much.
Yes, I'm working on full written rules currently.
Maybe there should be something like "Composition"? How much, if any, water, sand, stone, air, wood, snow or animals are available can be relevant for many characters.
That could work, I'll see if I can get an example draft out for that. Perhaps "Materials present" would be better, as depending on the scope of the area, the composition may change (Anything with multiple Biomes for example)
Was shocked to see this was Kieran's thread given myself and Zark were discussing this over Discord in the past weeks. Perhaps this is a natural conclusion that everyone was reaching at once.
I've been planning this since last year, perhaps everyone is looking to spice up VSB a lil bit lol.
 

DontTalkDT

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If the composition is very notable it can always be noted in the "notable features" section

note note noted notable noted
I mean "notable" depends on which characters you have fight on it. If you place Toph on a stage, then you will want to know whether earth is available. If you place Katara on a stage, plants or water are relevant. I feel like composition is always kinda notable.

And unless you do a frictionless vacuum stage (Heard physicists love that one) any place would have something to list there.



Btw. would we allow self-created locations as stand-ins for typical places? Things like a simple flat arena or a large body of water appear in many fictions. For such common places, we wouldn't really need more than one version listed, but I feel like giving that to whichever verse one is first created for would lead to controversy.
 

QuasiYuri

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Most of my thoughts are already those voiced by DontalkDT and Ultima, so I agree too.

I think we should separate the effects a place have, its dominant "materials" and what's the "population" in it as 3 different statistics; while removing P&A and hazards which would be covered by the first two.

Also I def think we would need some standard battle localisation scenario, as proposed by DontalkDT. Especially the flat arena one.
 

Armorchompy

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I like the idea, central park is honestly not perfectly fair as a default location though it's usually good enough, and having options is very good anyway
 
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I would keep "Normal" locations exclusively to the Real World, even if only for the sake of keeping proper ratings for the purpose of Versus Threads, especially considering the place of SBA comes from that "verse".
 

Ultima_Reality

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This seems like a great idea. I'm in agreement with it. Although, one thing that interests me here is the subject of profiles for sentient locations that can function as something aside from just arenas for VS Threads. To quote a part of the OP here:

There is also the point that some places are worth indexing on the Wiki, but the profiles that we allow are not really sufficient to get a good idea of such and area. Some areas are massive plot points in their stories, and are treated like an entity in their story rather than just a location. But are not technically actually characters. These would deserve profiles, but once again we cannot bring to light most relevant detail on a Character profile. Some of these would include:
I basically just skimmed through this thread's replies, so, sorry if that was already answered, but if I understand it currently, locations like these would basically have their own version of your template that accounts for things a sentient character would normally have, yeah? For instance, The Overlook Hotel has an Intelligence rating listed on its page.
 

Elizhaa

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On DT's points on the rejection of location profiles, here was the thread.

Right now, I am uneasy because I think profiles could be really redundant.
 

Elizhaa

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I basically just skimmed through this thread's replies, so, sorry if that was already answered, but if I understand it currently, locations like these would basically have their own version of your template that accounts for things a sentient character would normally have, yeah? For instance, The Overlook Hotel has an Intelligence rating listed on its page.
It seems to have its own version of the template but intelligence doesn't look mentioned on the template.
 

DontTalkDT

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On DT's points on the rejection of location profiles, here was the thread.

Right now, I am uneasy because I think profiles could be really redundant.
Oh, yeah. That's the one. Thanks.
Now I remember why they were rejected. It was because they were supposed to be used to explain cosmologies, which was an awful use of them since plain text in a respect page with quotes and everything does it so much better.
If we just want to use those as arenas that doesn't really apply here, though.
This seems like a great idea. I'm in agreement with it. Although, one thing that interests me here is the subject of profiles for sentient locations that can function as something aside from just arenas for VS Threads. To quote a part of the OP here:


I basically just skimmed through this thread's replies, so, sorry if that was already answered, but if I understand it currently, locations like these would basically have their own version of your template that accounts for things a sentient character would normally have, yeah? For instance, The Overlook Hotel has an Intelligence rating listed on its page.
My personal take is that a sentient location is just a giant character and would hence get a character profile.
 

AKM sama

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I am neutral. I don't mind the idea as long as quality control is kept in check and people don't spam a lot of similar profiles just because the locations are different or popular.

I know some locations would qualify to get a profile due to having to offer very different and unique properties that are not always known to everybody but are/can be recurrently used in matches and often have to be clarified in those vs threads (like the World of Void from DBS, Mirror Dimension from MCU, Atlantis from DCEU, Triwizard Tournament Place from Harry Potter, Western Air Temple from ATLA, Pandora from Avatar, etc.). But I don't think the number of such locations that warrant a profile would be too many.

For example, I don't think we need to make a profile for any real world location. We all know what New York is, or what the Savanna is. They offer no special property to index, and the properties they have are common knowledge. Similarly, I don't think fictional locations that are very close to any other real life location is needed either. Wakanda, Gotham, Avengers Tower, etc. don't really offer any property worth indexing and you can just specify a similar real life location (cities, big building, grasslands, etc.) in matches instead of those and nothing major will change.
 

KieranH10

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I basically just skimmed through this thread's replies, so, sorry if that was already answered, but if I understand it currently, locations like these would basically have their own version of your template that accounts for things a sentient character would normally have, yeah? For instance, The Overlook Hotel has an Intelligence rating listed on its page.
That would likely be covered by merging the types of Profiles. We are discussing the best plan of action regarding such a scenario, but merging seems to be the general consensus (E.G: we'd have stats and sections from multiple types of profiles, kinda like how Hell is already currently handled, as both a Civilization and a Character). There are some examples of this solution's execution in the OP if you wish to see how they went.
On DT's points on the rejection of location profiles, here was the thread.

Right now, I am uneasy because I think profiles could be really redundant.
I see, thank you for finding it. That seemed to have concluded as it did because it was basically just a replacement for the Cosmology Blogs that we currently have. As the OP of this thread states, these profiles would have a massive amount of applications in comparison to a simple cosmology. That thread also seemed to index the locations as if they were characters in a way, not really making them their own profile, but adapting them to profile types that wouldn't really work for them, and wouldn't get important information across.

I believe that these profiles can really help with a lot of factors. I personally don't believe they are redundant.
But I don't think the number of such locations that warrant a profile would be too many.

For example, I don't think we need to make a profile for any real world location. We all know what New York is, or what the Savanna is. They offer no special property to index, and the properties they have are common knowledge. Similarly, I don't think fictional locations that are very close to any other real life location is needed either. Wakanda, Gotham, Avengers Tower, etc. don't really offer any property worth indexing and you can just specify a similar real life location (cities, big building, grasslands, etc.) in matches instead of those and nothing major will change.
I personally don't agree with this to a degree. I believe that if a profile is noteworthy enough in fiction, it very likely has something interesting about it that would differ it from other profiles. (Wakanda has Guards, Vibranium, Forcefields. Gotham has Superheroes/Villains, and more. Avengers Tower has Jarvis, Iron Man Suits and the Iron Legion housed inside. Hell, even Peaches Castle from Mario has shown Paintings to other realms).

However, I do agree that there will obviously have to be limits made to what qualifies for a Profile. I'm currently working on an early draft of the rules and regulations that should come into play when making or using these profiles. But I personally believe we don't have to be as strict as you imply with them. I believe profiles for the likes of Gotham City, Avengers Tower, Wakanda, and more would be viable for creation.
 

AKM sama

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What relevance does Wakanda having guards, Gotham having heroes/villains and Avengers Tower having Jarvis hold? Allowing interference from different characters in a vs match makes the match unusable, and hence does not serve any purpose. The wiki is for indexing characters, not every location from fiction just because they have minute differences like having guards, heroes, etc.
 

Antvasima

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So I suppose that this has been accepted, but that we need to figure out a workable quality control regulations system then?
 
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