A New Type of Profile - Locations

[KieranH10]

Okie Dokie, second big CRT of the month i'm doing... Please don't kill me for this one, it's a pretty big thing...

As an Indexing Wiki, VS Battles Wiki focuses on indexing our favorite parts of fiction, many of our users enjoy creating profiles for everything we love about our series, games, comics, and more, and as a Versus Debating wiki, we can give our battles different options and variables to fit our liking, whether it be fun and games battles, or serious versus threads. Be it giving characters weapons, vehicles, or more.

Currently on VS Battles Wiki we generally have 3 types of standard profiles we can make, Characters, Weapons (Which includes Vehicles), and Civilizations (We also obviously have Verses and Powers, but these are a kinda different case imo). I plan to bring this up 2 more in the sorta nearby future, starting with this one.

The Premise:
On VSB we are given the option to place a battle in a location of our choice while debating, but many times it is used, images must be given anyways to show where a location is. Or readers simply don't know about the place in question.

I propose a way to solve this issue: Location Profiles.

Location Profiles would be a type of profile that can be linked in battles to give users an idea of what the arena used looks like.

With Location profiles we can index potential arenas for characters, give environmental hazards, and more. Obviously anything notably dangerous in an environment would only partake in a battle if the user wanted it to.

Location profiles could involve anything from noteworthy buildings in fiction, to entire countries, or even planets, etc.

I have created a potential Template for such a profile Here, with a few examples of what an actual Location Profile would look like Here.

Location profiles could include the likes of:

• Arks (Ark: Survival Evolved)
• New York City (The Real World)
• Avengers Tower (Marvel)
• Mos Eisley Cantina (Star Wars)
• The Crater (Subnautica)
• The Sinnoh Region (Pokemon)
• Westview (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
• The End (Minecraft)
• Endor (Star Wars)
• Metropolis (DC Comics)
• Isla Sorna (Jurassic Park)
• Hell (DOOM)
• Wakanda (Marvel)

Specifics:
Another potential point for Location Profiles is that some characters are fought exclusively in a special arena, which would arguably be a necessity to note on their profiles as some of the arenas offer necessary information about how a character fights or how a battle with them would go. Instead of just bringing this location up arbitrarily in a battle with no information, I believe an optional extra section on profiles would be in order, along the lines of a "Standard Arena", which would link to an Arena Profile of such areas.

Some characters who come to mind that would be affected by this would be:

• The Ender Dragon (Has a home advantage in the End thanks to End Crystals, and more).
• The Trial of Maligog (A boss from Doom Eternal, the Trial is an event that only takes place in its arena canonically, to give it a profile of just the cube thingies would be the hugest understatement on the planet).
• Many Pokemon Gym Leaders will fight in their Gym by standard, which often have their own special properties.
• The Overseer and Guardians of the Arks will only appear in their arenas. as will most bosses in Ark.

Another noteworthy point is characters of which certain areas would technically come under standard equipment or attacks, or characters who can create said areas as feats. Many characters can also BFR opponents to other realms, so it would be helpful to know the properties of said realms in a fight. It would be much easier to simply have a profile for said area and link it on the characters page for each of these scenarios. This one is a little harder to explain so I'll give a few examples:

• Wanda Maximoff (Marvel Cinematic Universe): Created the borders of Westview subconsciously from her guilt and emotion.
• Overseers have total control over the Arks they inhabit, and can control and manipulate the climate and ecosystems.
• Davoth has power over Hell, and corrupted Jekkad to create the realm.
• Doctor Strange can BFR or bring opponents to the Mirror Dimension.
• Po can BFR opponents into the Spirit Realm.

There is also the point that some places are worth indexing on the Wiki, but the profiles that we allow are not really sufficient to get a good idea of such and area. Some areas are massive plot points in their stories, and are treated like an entity in their story rather than just a location. But are not technically actually characters. These would deserve profiles, but once again we cannot bring to light most relevant detail on a Character profile. Some of these would include:

• Horrorland
• The Overlook Hotel
• The Cube (The Cube)
• The Trial of Maligog (Mentioning this one once again, The Trial of Maligog is just as much the boss fight as it is the area)

Many Civilization profiles would also benefit from these profiles. As Civilizations often have an area they are located in, sometimes fortified (MCU Wakanda has a large forcefield hiding and protecting the Country). Giving a civilization a profile stating where their turf is, and how it's defended, armed, and more would greatly help the profiles be understood better by our users, and would allow us to get more information across. Some Civilizations I can think of that would benefit from this would be:

• Villagers (Minecraft)
• End City (Minecraft)
• Wakanda (MCU)
• Hell (Doom)
• Skull Islanders (2005)
• Atlantis (DCEU)

This could even help with Cosmologies. Say we made a location profile for Hell from Doom, Hell contributes to a decent portion of Dooms Cosmology, so I believe it could even be helpful in similar cases to that. These would help Cosmology Blogs even further and give users an understanding without walls of text, they can be linked in Cosmology Blogs as Location Profiles, and users will understand their scope, properties, and anything else relevant between the Blogs and the Profile. Some of which I can think of would be:

• Doom (Hell and Urdak are both notable in the Cosmology)
• Minecraft (The Overworld, the Nether, and the End are all part of the Cosmology)
• Marvel (While i'm not fully knowledgeable in Marvel, I'm sure the likes of The House of Ideas, The Dark Realm, The Nine Realms, Overspace, Battleworld, and the Beyond-Realm would help here)
• DC (Same case as Marvel, but the Monitor Sphere, Sphere of the Gods, Speed Force, the Source, and Overvoid could also fall into these profiles and help people understand the Cosmology)

Issues:
One potential issue I see with these profiles is that some location profiles would overlap, for example, lets say there was a profile for Tatooine from Star Wars, and also one for Mos Eisley Cantina. These would overlap slightly since Mos Eisley is located on Tatooine, but this can easily be fixed by simply adding a link to a Mos Eisley profile on the Tatooine page in the notable areas section, and wouldn't be a massive issue anyways.

Another issue would be that some locations can also qualify as other types of profiles. Profiles such as Ego the Living Planet would be valid for both a Character Profile, and a Location Profile. Objects such as the Death Star or Starkiller Base would be another case, as it has a weapon Profile, but would also qualify for a Location Profile, and an extreme case would be Hell (Doom), which already merges two profiles (As both a Character, and a Civilisation) and would also qualify for a Location Profile, making it 3 profile types in total.
We would need to find a way to solve this issue, of which I have two potential solutions:

• Merge the Profiles:Like has been done with Hell (Doom), we could merge the two profile types into one mega-profile, this has shown to work with Hell, and would likely work with most profiles pretty well. All of the information about an area/character/civ would be included on one singular profile.
  • Upon suggestion, there are examples of how this solution would look Here (Ego the Living Planet, and Hell, which is likely among the more extreme cases)
• Name the Profiles Accordingly: A simple approach would be to simply reference that the profile is a Location Profile, which would solve the naming issue, and stop confusion. Naming Profiles "X (Location)" and "X (Character/Civilisation/Weapon)" would solve the problem completely.

Rules:
Obviously we will need rules regarding a new type of profile, these would be pretty simple to apply, as they would generally follow the same rules as our other profiles. Plus a few of their own.

Now obviously having certain arenas that give disadvantages to both characters would not be ideal for Versus Debating, so this would have to be countered with a rule along the lines of:

• "Most environmental features will not factor into a battle as they would be classed as outside help. If environmental features are wanted to be included in a battle, it must be on the Fun and Games forum."
  • This would keep any hazards optional, but if a user wants to use them, it would be a Fun and Games fight
  • This could also be a note on the Template

However I believe that if a Location is a Standard Arena for a character, it would be fair to allow it in real battles. So I believe the rule should be as follows:

• "Should a character only regularly fight in a certain arena, then they may be allowed in a regular versus thread, and the results of said thread may be added to the Characters Profile. Though it must be noted that the Arena has been utilized in this case."

Basically I believe that the rule should be: If the Arena is Standard to the Character in some way (Whether they only fight in it, can BFR to or Create the Realm, or the Realm itself acts as a form of equipment for another character, then it's fine to add to real battles. However if it is an optional arena simply added to a battle for fun, then it goes in the Fun and Games Board, and can not be added to Profiles as a real fight.

TL;DR - New kind of Profile for Locations.

• Pros:
  • Another kind of profile for users who enjoy indexing to create.
  • Some characters have a "Standard Arena" which would help users understand how they fight.
  • Some characters directly use a location as a form of attack or equipment in battle, knowing how said location works would be incredibly helpful.
  • Some locations are more than worth indexing on this site, but do not fit into the current profile types we have.
  • Greatly helps users understand a location being used in a battle.
  • Gives some more options for battles.
  • Civilizations often have a standard turf/base of operations, knowing this can help us understand the civilization better.
  • Could help users understand Cosmology and go in arms with Cosmology Blogs
• Cons:
  • Some could potentially overlap (Already have a given solution)
  • Some could potentially be characters too (Already have two given solutions)

So, umm. Yeah...
Some may argue this aint necessary, I think it would be helpful in many ways and can just be another fun thing we could do.
Those Who Agree (17): Greenshifter, Arceus0x, Yar_R_agi_7k, XSOULOFCINDERX, Gewsbumpz_dude, OwenVanmaun, Roachman40, Bobsican, Lou_change, Psychomaster35, Ogbunabali, InfiniteDay, ArmorChompy, QuasiYuri, Dante_Demon_Killah, Ultima_Reality, GilverTheProtoAngelo, Mr_Bambu, I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die,

Those Who Disagree (0):

Suggestions for improvement/changes:
Abstractions:

• If an environment lets characters take advantage of their strengths more, like Camouflage and whatnot, they should be acceptable in matches, as it would rely on the characters still getting the better of one another or use some of their intelligence to take advantage of their environment, and intellect isn't something we often see used when debating.
  • If things are intentionally crippling for one character, things can be labelled a stomp and the environment be removed from the equation or changed.

Lou_change:

• Separate the Weapons/Vehicles that appear in the area from the "Other Notable Features" section, making it it's own section.
  • This would look similar to this.

ArmorChompy:

• Locations may be able to fight in battles under certain circumstances. Characters could be placed in a dangerous environment and we may discuss if they would survive said location.

 

[Greenshifter]

This looks like a good idea to me and you seem to have worked it out really nicely. I have some location ideas myself and am willing to help out with the DC ones.

 

[KieranH10]

Naicu! Glad you think so, I've been planning (and dreading) this for a few months now.

I want to make it clear that this thread is also open to any ideas since if this is made it should be as good as it can be, and I'm out of ideas lol.

 

[Rez]

Issues:
One potential issue I see with these profiles is that some location profiles would overlap, for example, lets say there was a profile for Tatooine from Star Wars, and also one for Mos Eisley Cantina. These would overlap slightly since Mos Eisley is located on Tatooine, but this can easily be fixed by simply adding a link to a Mos Eisley profile on the Tatooine page in the notable areas section, and wouldn't be a massive issue anyways.

Why not just make the profile for the planet and mention the locations in it

 

[KieranH10]

Why not just make the profile for the planet and mention the locations in it

If you mean adding the details of all of the locations on the planet to the Planet profile. That was an early idea, but it clogs up the profile massively, and would just make enormous walls of information. It would be much more efficient to have separate profiles. Much like we often have profiles for individual units or members in Civilization Pages.

 

[Rez]

If you mean adding the details of all of the locations on the planet to the Planet profile. That was an early idea, but it clogs up the profile massively, and would just make enormous walls of information. It would be much more efficient to have separate profiles. Much like we often have profiles for individual units or members in Civilization Pages.

No I mean making an specific location related profile for the planet which only deals with the battle locations located on the said planet but yeah I understand even this might be a bit too much

 

[KieranH10]

No I mean making an specific location related profile for the planet which only deals with the battle locations located on the said planet but yeah I understand even this might be a bit too much

Yes, the Planet would be valid for a profile. But it would be difficult to go into detail on every notable building generally since there would be a whole lot of such. So each notable area on said planet would also warrant a profile, that can simply be linked on the Planet's profile.
Kinda like a profile family tree in a way, many profiles of varying scale would be able to branch off of one another.

 

[Arceus0x]

oh heck yeah dap me up

 

[Arceus0x]

Prepare yourself

 

[Damage3245]

Prepare yourself

This isn't helpful.

 

[KieranH10]

Prepare yourself

This isn't helpful.

Funny as it is. I do agree with Damage that this thread should likely stay serious, as this is a pretty big topic.

 

[Arceus0x]

sorry but i had to do at least one funny location. I am legit hyped for this, this would help the cosmologies a lot.
Would multiverses count?

 

[KieranH10]

sorry but i had to do at least one funny location. I am legit hyped for this, this would help the cosmologies a lot.
Would multiverses count?

I'm unsure, It would be very helpful to do such. But I would assume if it were to happen, we'd at very least need something like a disambiguation page for Multiverses. Since pretty much anything beyond tier 2 would likely have some kinda Multiversal Structure.

Then again, I'd also assume most Multiverses would likely just be the same profile in most ways. Since I personally cant think of any real examples of a Multiverse that isn't just "Something that contains a number of Universes"

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Just wondering, but would something like the Mathiverse receive a profile because of this? As that was deemed more a location than a character

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I skimmed through it since I don't have much time on my hands right now but I'll go back and read it all later.

It looks very good so far, but I'm not sure how your solution to the overlapping thing would really work out in practice. Yeah we have DOOM's Hell as an example, but that's really only one example out of the many potential profiles that could overlap between these different formats. I'd suggest maybe attempting to create a few sandboxes for these merged profiles to see how they turn out before actually going forward and implementing them as actual pages.

 

[KieranH10]

Just wondering, but would something like the Mathiverse receive a profile because of this? As that was deemed more a location than a character

Most likely. While I'm not massively knowledgeable myself on the MathiVerse case, from what I've heard it would likely fit the standard.

It looks very good so far, but I'm not sure how your solution to the overlapping thing would really work out in practice. Yeah we have DOOM's Hell as an example, but that's really only one example out of the many potential profiles that could overlap between these different formats. I'd suggest maybe attempting to create a few sandboxes for these merged profiles to see how they turn out before actually going forward and implementing them as actual pages.

That is a good idea actually. I'll make a few sandboxes for the examples I mentioned when I get a bit of time.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

I'd really like to do that, there are some locations I'd like to do for GF at least

 

[Lapsad]

I thought it was a first choice.

 

[KieranH10]

I'd really like to do that, there are some locations I'd like to do for GF at least

Should I put you up for agreement?

I thought it was a first choice.

That seems to have a note regarding the profile relating more to a character than the Location.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Should I put you up for agreement?

definitely yes

 

[Arceus0x]

an example. "Another Dimension" from Kirby is pretty much confirmed a 2-C multiverse (either effi or me are gonna make a crt about the info hopefully soon). Would that kind of thing be allowed or not?

 

[KieranH10]

an example. "Another Dimension" from Kirby is pretty much confirmed a 2-C multiverse (either effi or me are gonna make a crt about the info hopefully soon). Would that kind of thing be allowed or not?

I'm unsure since I'm not too certain on Kirby myself. Profiles would have to follow the same rules that we already have, so it would likely be helpful to propose a profile as a CRT first to make sure those that are knowledgeable on such would confirm it's correct.

I'd personally say that if it's notable enough to the series, most things should pass through though much like our other profiles, we obviously wouldn't be making profiles for "Building #3 second to the left in scene 45" though for obvious reasons. But if it's worth something in the series, it's worth something here.

definitely yes

Okie dokie.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with this CRT.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Ah yes, if this is accepted then Ultima or was DT who created in the past page for Mathyverse can re-add it...Tier 0 Location.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neutral on this, but I like the idea. Especially if locations can help out for certain characters or whether or not certain characters will have access to certain weapons, powers or abilities.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm definitely interested in this idea I won't lie

 

[Abstractions]

I think the concept is fairly interesting and actually quite enjoy the idea of it, if executed properly.

"Most environmental features will not factor into a battle as they would be classed as outside help. If environmental features are wanted to be included in a battle, it must be on the Fun and Games forum."

I actually don't think this should be the case, surprisingly. Environments can be used to even a playing field that would otherwise be weighted towards one party.

Say we put some extremely skilled gunslinger vs. someone with a sword in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, it becomes rather unfair because there's no obstacles to obscure the range user's vision or inhibit their line of sight.

Lava pits or spiked pits like in Mortal Kombat end up being threatening to both parties in the given scenario, so things like this don't exactly shift the odds one way or another. Context makes it important, but I think environments are nice to make fights more fun or happen in a more balanced way.

If an environment lets characters take advantage of their strengths more, like Camouflage and whatnot, I'm all for them being acceptable in matches, as it would rely on the characters still getting the better of one another or use some of their intelligence to take advantage of their environment, and intellect isn't something we often see used when debating.

Of course if things are intentionally crippling for one character, things can be labelled a stomp and the environment be removed from the equation or changed.

 

[KieranH10]

Neutral on this, but I like the idea. Especially if locations can help out for certain characters or whether or not certain characters will have access to certain weapons, powers or abilities.

I believe these profiles would be a great benefit to our current profiles and verses, yes.

I think the concept is fairly interesting and actually quite enjoy the idea of it, if executed properly.

Do you think that the current Sandbox in the OP seems good enough? Is there anything you would add or that you think is missing?

I actually don't think this should be the case, surprisingly. Environments can be used to even a playing field that would otherwise be weighted towards one party.

Say we put some extremely skilled gunslinger vs. someone with a sword in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, it becomes rather unfair because there's no obstacles to obscure the range user's vision or inhibit their line of sight.

Lava pits or spiked pits like in Mortal Kombat end up being threatening to both parties in the given scenario, so things like this don't exactly shift the odds one way or another. Context makes it important, but I think environments are nice to make fights more fun or happen in a more balanced way.

If an environment lets characters take advantage of their strengths more, like Camouflage and whatnot, I'm all for them being acceptable in matches, as it would rely on the characters still getting the better of one another or use some of their intelligence to take advantage of their environment, and intellect isn't something we often see used when debating.

Of course if things are intentionally crippling for one character, things can be labelled a stomp and the environment be removed from the equation or changed.

This makes a lot of sense. Perhaps the rule should be altered and toned down a little to allow for Arena's to be used in matches if they make them more fair. I still believe that using an arena to purposefully give a character an advantage when it isn't needed or makes the match very one-sided should not be allowed, as these would obviously be borderline, if not outright stomps.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Really like this idea (you already know that from our DMs), I really think it can open the doors on new profiles and stuff like that. I agree with this.

 

[OwenVaunman]

This looks good to me, and I think it is quite logical, it also opens up some more opportunities to be more effective. I agree

 

[OwenVaunman]

Places like the TVA which nullifies magic, and Krypton which removes Kryptonians powers would be important things to have.

 

[Roachman40]

I agree with this, looks good mi hombre

 

[KieranH10]

I agree with this, looks good mi hombre

Gracias mi amigo

 

[Bobsican]

I extremely agree with the OP.
However, what would qualify as "hazards"? As while someone well-versed on the site can guess it means to any animated being, the term can also be misunderstood as any sort of threat to either participant (such as the place in question being full of spikes or having passive hax).
I also don't think they exactly fall as outside help as the external content isn't necessarily sided for either participant, and may even be just against both or indifferent beyond what one of the two may do.

 

[Lou_change]

So currently are areas unrelated to the characters fighting allowed.
I agree with this by the way but I have a question do the inhabitants just make sure that they don't get involved, do they act like they would act normally in this situation for them.

 

[KieranH10]

However, what would qualify as "hazards"? As while someone well-versed on the site can guess it means to any animated being, the term can also be misunderstood as any sort of threat to either participant (such as the place in question being full of spikes or having passive hax).
I also don't think they exactly fall as outside help as the external content isn't necessarily sided for either participant, and may even be just against both or indifferent beyond what one of the two may do.

I think the likes of Spikes and more would fall under Hazards. Anything that is hazardous that is part of the environment I suppose.

So currently are areas unrelated to the characters fighting allowed.

That is be being discussed as of now. Some people believe that this would be fine. I personally believe that Locations could make battles one sided and can favor certain characters that would not normally be their regular fighting area.

I have a question do the inhabitants just make sure that they don't get involved, do they act like they would act normally in this situation for them.

That is a good question, this could be another option for battle rules.


Now that I think of it, it may be worth creating a sort of "Location Rules" page for editing, creating, and using Locations in battles.

 

[Lou_change]

That is be being discussed as of now. Some people believe that this would be fine. I personally believe that Locations could make battles one sided and can favor certain characters that would not normally be their regular fighting area.

I mean both lines of logic are correct for example having battles in the vacuum of space would screw over a ton of characters but having powers like elemental manipulations that requires the elements there to work, underground movement, stealth Mastery, surface scaling, camouflage, acrobatics, construction all are very weak to certain locations, but the thing is Standard Battle Assumptions already approves of battle locations other than central park if it makes battles more fair perhaps threads that use locations should have to go through match up addition requests before being allowed to be added or a thread just for that.

 

[Psychomaster35]

I agree with this

 

[KieranH10]

@Antvasima @Promestein @AKM sama

This is a pretty big subject so I feel like I should ask you here. How do you feel about this?

 

[Arceus0x]

how is it when the smallest revision threads happen they'll always be there but when there's a whole colossal change being applied they are just gone?