A major update to Dragon Ball timelines

[TheGodOfICE777]

when have i said that? if it is showing the sequences of events of the main timeline, then it wouldn't show a non connected timeline, canon or not


no

Bro have you not been paying attention at all? Its showing the chronological events of “canon” things hence why super events are Shown in chronological order and gt not necessarily making them the same timeline but just canon proving they’re different timelines which is consistent with toriyama stating it’s side story

 

[Nullflowerblush]

like how guides have shown age 779 being when trunks goes to the timeline

Any examples? The Daizenshuu does not, the Chouzenshuu does not, and I can't recall any other databooks that present chronological tables.

It’s just showing the chronological events in different timelines

Is there any reason to assume that of the History Exhibit, instead of assuming the simplest answer—Occam's Razor—that GT and the Super anime take place within the same timeline? Declaring that "The History Exhibit presents every event across all the different timelines in the same place" requires far more baseless assumptions than "The History Exhibit follows the canon timeline of the original series, leading into Super, and concluding with GT, as is explicitly shown".

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Bro have you not been paying attention at all? Its showing the chronological events of “canon” things hence why super events are Shown in chronological order and gt not necessarily making them the same timeline but just canon proving they’re different timelines which is consistent with toriyama stating it’s side story

"side story" and "alternate timeline" are not even close to being similar.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If anything, Toriyama describing GT as a "side story" is proof that the former is canon to the latter, but not as significant.

 

[omegabronic]

Bro have you not been paying attention at all? Its showing the chronological events of “canon” things hence why super events are Shown in chronological order

no, it is showing the chronological events of the main super timeline, hence why the events of black's original timeline does not show up

and gt not necessarily making them the same timeline but just canon proving they’re different timelines

you would need to provide extra evidence to say that this is the intended meaning there

which is consistent with toriyama stating it’s side story

side story=/=alternate timeline

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

If anything, Toriyama describing GT as a "side story" is proof that the former is canon to the latter, but not as significant.

I don't quite understand what you're proposing?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't quite understand what you're proposing?

Me neither, I've been watching this for hours and trying to understand

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Any examples? The Daizenshuu does not, the Chouzenshuu does not, and I can't recall any other databooks that present chronological tables.

Is there any reason to assume that of the History Exhibit, instead of assuming the simplest answer—Occam's Razor—that GT and the Super anime take place within the same timeline? Declaring that "The History Exhibit presents every event across all the different timelines in the same place" requires far more baseless assumptions than "The History Exhibit follows the canon timeline of the original series, leading into Super, and concluding with GT, as is explicitly shown".

According to db wiki The timeline is provided by Toei Doga in Daizenshuu 7 and in the Dragon Ball GT: Perfect File books https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Timeline are included and noted

How is it baseless assumptions there’s countless time rings and timelines within the series so it’s consistent with that fact plus gt is shown to be a continuation of the toei anime as well making that more consistent

no, it is showing the chronological events of the main super timeline, hence why the events of black's original timeline does not show up


you would need to provide extra evidence to say that this is the intended meaning there


side story=/=alternate timeline

That literally can’t be the case

Yeah, from the interview in the OP

Translations | Dragon Ball GT Dragon Book: GT Back Then (Kōzō Morishita Interview)

English translation of the Kōzō Morishita 'GT Back Then' interview from the 2006 Dragon Ball GT Dragon Box DVD release in Japan

www.kanzenshuu.com

I mean, there's literally an entire episode worth of GT Vegeta reminiscing on his past and we get an entire highlight reel of Z Anime scenes that differ from how said scenes happened in the manga (episode 55), and the ending also has a highlight reel of the Z Anime.

Aside from that, GT Goku references the time he fell into Hell in the Saiyan Saga, which is explicitly an Anime filler original scene.

So I'm not sure how literally the "side story of canon DB" comment from Toriyama can be taken as meaning it's part of the manga timeline, though I suppose what the OP proposes about it being a different timeline makes it work.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I'm not completely opposed to the idea of Super being pre GT. It's actually supported by other depictions of how GT ties in with Super across multiple platforms, including those Toriyama okayed.

 

[omegabronic]

How is it baseless assumptions there’s countless time rings and timelines within the series so it’s consistent with that fact plus gt is shown to be a continuation of the toei anime as well making that more consistent

That literally can’t be the case

several years of difference between one and the other, minor stuff like the hell thing could have perfectly happened in the in between years, also things like gregory already being said to exist in the original manga anyway

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

several years of difference between one and the other, minor stuff like the hell thing could have perfectly happened in the in between years, also things like gregory already being said to exist in the original manga anyway

Gregory is never shown in the manga and never hit like Goku hit him in the anime ”but maybe he’s hidden” is clearly a joke he’s never been depicted is an anime exclusive thing and him falling in hell is clearly him reminiscing on him falling off snakeway itd Be your burden of proof to prove he fell within the timeskip which wouldn’t make sense anyways because he only fell the first time because he was asleep also those aren’t the only evidence for gt being a continuation of toei anime if you read the other stuff I replied to

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I'm so ******* confused. Anyways I agree.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm so ******* confused. Anyways I agree.

Imagine me writing all this and I don't understand practically anything where they want to go, lol

 

[omegabronic]

Gregory is never shown in the manga

he never appeared, but it is said that he was there, i believe that i already showed the scan earlier?

and never hit like Goku hit him in the anime

?

”but maybe he’s hidden” is clearly a joke

an explanation nonetheless, why would we discard it? also, i don't think that it was a joke, maybe a funny factoid

he’s never been depicted is an anime exclusive thing

he was clearly stated to exist in the manga

and him falling in hell is clearly him reminiscing on him falling off snakeway itd Be your burden of proof to prove he fell within the timeskip

simple, toei continuity is not canon to the manga, dbgt was retroactively added to the main canon that follows up the manga, therefore that being a reference to a toei continuity stuff is retconed, what event is he talking about? who knows, we just know that due to the retroactively inclusion, it can't be refering to the toei stuff

which wouldn’t make sense anyways because he only fell the first time because he was asleep

which stops him from falling again how?

also those aren’t the only evidence for gt being a continuation of toei anime if you read the other stuff I replied to

i believe i already covered that up above

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

he never appeared, but it is said that he was there, i believe that i already showed the scan earlier?


?


an explanation nonetheless, why would we discard it? also, i don't think that it was a joke, maybe a funny factoid


he was clearly stated to exist in the manga


simple, toei continuity is not canon to the manga, dbgt was retroactively added to the main canon that follows up the manga, therefore that being a reference to a toei continuity stuff is retconed, what event is he talking about? who knows, we just know that due to the retroactively inclusion, it can't be refering to the toei stuff


which stops him from falling again how?


i believe i already covered that up above

He never appeared he’s never been shown and he’s never stated to be there in the z manga or super manga

In the anime goku hits Gregory for training

He’s never stated to exist in the manga it literally says he’s only appeared in the anime but not the manga but maybe he’s hiding it’s a joke it’d be your burden of proof to prove he actually exists as there’s nothing suggesting he does

Burden of proof? Also this and this you’re not gonna succeed in downgrading GT by steel manning your arguments plus 2 staff already agreed that it’d just be a canon alternate timeline as opposed to the future of dbs

There’s no logical reason he’d fall again he had to do a lot of stuff to get back up you’d have to again provide a logical reason how he would accidentally fall down again

I don’t believe you did

Edit: I know you want to downgrade GT but even if GT was a future timeline of Super That’d make super universe 7 2-C because of the sugoroku space which was between Space-Times

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Cosmology/scaling implications should be discussed in another thread IMO even though theres like 100 threads for that already

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I feel like a revision as controversial and major as merging GT into the canon timeline itself that includes Super in it would probably warrant at least one Staff Thread.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I feel like a revision as controversial and major as merging GT into the canon timeline itself that includes Super in it would probably warrant at least one Staff Thread.

Also the topic of this thread is to have GT as a canon timeline but an alternate timeline so if someone wishes to do that they may create their own thread instead of saying that blasphemy in this one

 

[omegabronic]

He never appeared he’s never been shown and he’s never stated to be there in the z manga or super manga

we already went over this

In the anime goku hits Gregory for training

i don't how that is relevant in anyway?

He’s never stated to exist in the manga it literally says he’s only appeared in the anime but not the manga but maybe he’s hiding it’s a joke it’d be your burden of proof to prove he actually exists as there’s nothing suggesting he does

the burden is on you, he is stated to be in the manga, nothing indicates that the statement is not true, so we take it as true, plus it is collaborated in dbs, which is an manga continuation, where we can see that gregory exists

Burden of proof?

do you know what a retcon is?

Also this

proves nothing regarding cannon
https://i.gyazo.com/5dc8e8ff262af8ad6372011447c5d280.png

and this

what am i supposed to be seeing?

you’re not gonna succeed in downgrading GT by steel manning your arguments

is that the problem here?

plus 2 staff already agreed that it’d just be a canon alternate timeline as opposed to the future of dbs

no, two staffs agreed with it in the false assumption that this was what the scans in the op said, it isn't, everything in the op is talking about gt as if it was the future of dbs

There’s no logical reason he’d fall again

there is no "again" here, that would be the first time

he had to do a lot of stuff to get back up

i straight up said that the toei stuff was retroactively retconed didn't i?

you’d have to again provide a logical reason how he would accidentally fall down again

there is no "again" to speak of

I don’t believe you did

i believe i did

Edit: I know you want to downgrade GT but even if GT was a future timeline of Super That’d make super universe 7 2-C because of the sugoroku space which was between Space-Times

dude, is that really what matters to you, i don't care if gt is downgraded or not, this is about accuracy, leave scaling stuff to another thread

Also the topic of this thread is to have GT as a canon timeline but an alternate timeline so if someone wishes to do that they may create their own thread instead of saying that blasphemy in this one

dude, all of the scans in the op are saying that gt is canon and the future of dbs, if the suggestion doesn't match the sources used then we go by what the sources are saying

I feel like a revision as controversial and major as merging GT into the canon timeline itself that includes Super in it would probably warrant at least one Staff Thread.

let us wait and see, not anything else to do but that

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

we already went over this


i don't how that is relevant in anyway?


the burden is on you, he is stated to be in the manga, nothing indicates that the statement is not true, so we take it as true, plus it is collaborated in dbs, which is an manga continuation, where we can see that gregory exists


do you know what a retcon is?


proves nothing regarding cannon
https://i.gyazo.com/5dc8e8ff262af8ad6372011447c5d280.png

what am i supposed to be seeing?


is that the problem here?


no, two staffs agreed with it in the false assumption that this was what the scans in the op said, it isn't, everything in the op is talking about gt as if it was the future of dbs


there is no "again" here, that would be the first time


i straight up said that the toei stuff was retroactively retconed didn't i?


there is no "again" to speak of


i believe i did


dude, is that really what matters to you, i don't care if gt is downgraded or not, this is about accuracy, leave scaling stuff to another thread


dude, all of the scans in the op are saying that gt is canon and the future of dbs, if the suggestion doesn't match the sources used then we go by what the sources are saying



let us wait and see, not anything else to do but that

Gregory was an original creation for the Dragon Ball Z television series, designed by Akira Toriyama himself at the request of Toei Animation, who asked him to develop one more character for the events during Goku’s training at Kaiō’s.
Gregory
He’s Kaiō-sama‘s caretaker who you’ll know from the anime. He doesn’t appear in the comic, but maybe he’s just hiding somewhere!
He’s originally for the toei anime that comment is obviously a joke

Shows that it’s a continuation of toei

no it’s not lol it’s just showcasing the canon stuff and showing the events in a chronological order we discussed this on discord

again also why and how would he fall off snakeway it’s clearly referencing Z

burden of proof on you to prove its retconned

I was showing that Gregory was in the anime and not in the manga

already proved Gregory doesn’t exist in the manga

refers to dragon balls animation

that’s the problem it’s just the intentions are clear that’s all

there is no false assumption it’s just Your assumption steel manning your argument

I mean it doesn’t really matter I just wanted to let you know because you said GT would be downgraded earlier inthe crt

Gt being canon but an alternate timeline is the point of the thread you’re just the one making a false idea and I’m saying if you wanna keep saying you want super and gt to share a timeline feel free to make a crt

 

[omegabronic]

Gregory was an original creation for the Dragon Ball Z television series, designed by Akira Toriyama himself at the request of Toei Animation, who asked him to develop one more character for the events during Goku’s training at Kaiō’s.
Gregory
He’s Kaiō-sama‘s caretaker who you’ll know from the anime. He doesn’t appear in the comic, but maybe he’s just hiding somewhere!
He’s originally for the toei anime that comment is obviously a joke

again, any reason to not consider that as a valid explanation? specially when it is supported by the dbs anime?

Shows that it’s a continuation of toei

no it doesn't? how does that prove that?

no it’s not lol it’s just showcasing the canon stuff and showing the events in a chronological order we discussed this on discord

yeah, but 1 as null explained it, occams razor, you examplanation requires way too many assumptions rather then the simplest one, 2 i explained multiple times how another random, non conected timeline apearing there makes absolutely 0 sense, but you kept ignoring it, nothing indicates that it is showing an alternate timeline there

again also why and how would he fall off snakeway it’s clearly referencing Z

it WAS referring z back in the day, if it was retconed into being an cannon continuation of super, then it can't be a reference to that anymore

burden of proof on you to prove its retconned

it being retroactively implemented as a continuation of super?

I was showing that Gregory was in the anime and not in the manga

and i showed that he was in the manga

already proved Gregory doesn’t exist in the manga

no, you proved that he was created for the anime, he was stated to exist in the manga

refers to dragon balls animation

dude, could you please structure your answers? it is incredibly hard to know what you are responding to, assuming that this is about this image, it straight up says that dragon ball is being continued in the animation

that’s the problem it’s just the intentions are clear that’s all

again, i have no idea what you are referring to

there is no false assumption it’s just Your assumption steel manning your argument

i also don't know what you are referring to here, also accusing me does nothing to the thread

I mean it doesn’t really matter I just wanted to let you know because you said GT would be downgraded earlier inthe crt

stop derailing, this is not relevant here

Gt being canon but an alternate timeline is the point of the thread you’re just the one making a false idea and I’m saying if you wanna keep saying you want super and gt to share a timeline feel free to make a crt

you just ignored everything i said, address my points directly please, the scans in the op are not supporting gt being an alternate timeline whatsoever

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

again, any reason to not consider that as a valid explanation? specially when it is supported by the dbs anime?


no it doesn't? how does that prove that?


yeah, but 1 as null explained it, occams razor, you examplanation requires way too many assumptions rather then the simplest one, 2 i explained multiple times how another random, non conected timeline apearing there makes absolutely 0 sense, but you kept ignoring it, nothing indicates that it is showing an alternate timeline there


it WAS referring z back in the day, if it was retconed into being an cannon continuation of super, then it can't be a reference to that anymore


it being retroactively implemented as a continuation of super?


and i showed that he was in the manga


no, you proved that he was created for the anime, he was stated to exist in the manga


dude, could you please structure your answers? it is incredibly hard to know what you are responding to, assuming that this is about this image, it straight up says that dragon ball is being continued in the animation


again, i have no idea what you are referring to


i also don't know what you are referring to here, also accusing me does nothing to the thread


stop derailing, this is not relevant here


you just ignored everything i said, address my points directly please, the scans in the op are not supporting gt being an alternate timeline whatsoever

Not really a Lot of events of dbs is shown to be based off dbz anime like goku vs ssj2 buu and when cell blew up the earth gregory is shown being blown up as well iirc opposed to the manga just having the monkey and king Kai blow up

Yeah, from the interview in the OP

Translations | Dragon Ball GT Dragon Book: GT Back Then (Kōzō Morishita Interview)

English translation of the Kōzō Morishita 'GT Back Then' interview from the 2006 Dragon Ball GT Dragon Box DVD release in Japan

www.kanzenshuu.com

I mean, there's literally an entire episode worth of GT Vegeta reminiscing on his past and we get an entire highlight reel of Z Anime scenes that differ from how said scenes happened in the manga (episode 55), and the ending also has a highlight reel of the Z Anime.

Aside from that, GT Goku references the time he fell into Hell in the Saiyan Saga, which is explicitly an Anime filler original scene.

So I'm not sure how literally the "side story of canon DB" comment from Toriyama can be taken as meaning it's part of the manga timeline, though I suppose what the OP proposes about it being a different timeline makes it work.

How does my explanation require many assumptions youre literally saying things got retconned and saying that dbs and gt share a timeline for the sake of your argument your using occams razor here not me

proved my point with that message

never stated to exist in the manga it just says HE MIGHT BE HIDING

im not accusing you I’m just saying you’re steel manning your argument if it’s not your intepretation you said it’s false and that the staff votes dont count for that reason when they saw the same exact scans you did

It is you’re using occams razor

i also don’t really feel like clogging up this thread anymore so i would prefer if you chat on discord since I legit talked about most of what you said on discord and you use the same points again in the thread

 

[omegabronic]

i also don’t really feel like clogging up this thread anymore so i would prefer if you chat on discord since I legit talked about most of what you said on discord and you use the same points again in the thread

very well, i say the exact same thing to you

 

[omegabronic]

Someone should probably translate the time line sequiment, but apparently the chozenchuu updated the dragon ball time line seguiment to include gt as well

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Someone should probably translate the time line sequiment, but apparently the chozenchuu updated the dragon ball time line seguiment to include gt as well

chozenshu has GT stuff in it already (sugoroku space).

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

chozenshu has GT stuff in it already (sugoroku space).

Do you have the complete guide?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Do you have the complete guide?

Here's a more complete image.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Here's a more complete image.

Thanks

 

[pineappleman]

i wince in pain every time i'm reading a thread and omega's crammed dozen quote individual posts make their debut

 

[omegabronic]

i wince in pain every time i'm reading a thread and omega's crammed dozen quote individual posts make their debut

clog gets avoided

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

i wince in pain every time i'm reading a thread and omega's crammed dozen quote individual posts make their debut

I agree

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

For people who are saying it doesn't matter because it's non canon, it does. It shows how Toriyama portrays GT in relation to Super, which in just about every depiction depicts GT as taking place post-Super. Meaning we can use Non-Canon to see how Toriyama in most cases see GT's relation to Super, not for any other reason.

The timeline itself is a chronological timeline depiction on this, and it was made by Toriyama. They don't show Alternate Timelines. It's one single timeline chronological depiction of events. So in Toriyama's mind (since he uses Super's logo instead of Battle of Gods), all of Super is 5 years before GT starts. Like. I am not going to be the one to talk about what changes or powerscaling or whatever (that mess deserves it's own thread), but what's genuinely undeniable is that aspect, especially since they use the official DBS' Logo for the DBS portion and not BoG Movie Logo which are distinctly different Logos, so you can't chalk it up to Toriyama just making it vague. It's a retcon sure, I 100% agree, but it's there.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

For people who are saying it doesn't matter because it's non canon, it does. It shows how Toriyama portrays GT in relation to Super, which in just about every depiction depicts GT as taking place post-Super. Meaning we can use Non-Canon to see how Toriyama in most cases see GT's relation to Super, not for any other reason.

The timeline itself is a chronological timeline depiction on this, and it was made by Toriyama. They don't show Alternate Timelines. It's one single timeline chronological depiction of events. So in Toriyama's mind (since he uses Super's logo instead of Battle of Gods), all of Super is 5 years before GT starts. Like. I am not going to be the one to talk about what changes or powerscaling or whatever (that mess deserves it's own thread), but what's genuinely undeniable is that aspect, especially since they use the official DBS' Logo for the DBS portion and not BoG Movie Logo which are distinctly different Logos, so you can't chalk it up to Toriyama just making it vague. It's a retcon sure, I 100% agree, but it's there.

Doesn’t change much regarding power scaling besides upgrading Super but guides have noted different timelines in the past according to db wiki but we’re gonna double check it but super and gt being one timeline creates a lot of inconsistencies

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Doesn’t change much regarding power scaling besides upgrading Super but guides have noted different timelines in the past according to db wiki but we’re gonna double check it but super and gt being one timeline creates a lot of inconsistencies

Has it been 48 hours?

 

[omegabronic]

Doesn’t change much regarding power scaling besides upgrading Super

maybe, maybe not, i have some reservations to that, but yeah, let us discuss power scaling in another thread

 

[omegabronic]

Has it been 48 hours?

only 2 staffs agreed, need one more, and even then i would like to know their opinions on the current topic

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

only 2 staffs agreed, need one more, and even then i would like to know their opinions on the current topic

I've already tagged some administrators and moderators, we just have to wait for them, this is a very big and important thing, I'm fine if this is not accepted, but I think it's fair to be part of the Dragon Ball canon timelines.

 

[Damage3245]

Doesn’t change much regarding power scaling besides upgrading Super but guides have noted different timelines in the past according to db wiki but we’re gonna double check it but super and gt being one timeline creates a lot of inconsistencies

Why would this upgrade Super exactly?

 

[Damage3245]

In 1993, Akira Toriyama entrusts Takao Koyama with the new story of the little robot and for the designs he chooses Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru (creator of SS4). That manga is titled "The Return Of Dr. Slump" and is the official continuation of the story that ended in 1984.

https://drslump.fandom.com/wiki/The_Brief_Return_of_Dr._Slump

And now the big reveal begins!!!

As we know, Arale is considered "canonical" within the story in Dragon Ball. That's because Arale appeared in the Dragon Ball manga helping Goku and in the anime dbs

Because in one of the chapters of the sequel to Dr.Slump, Goku makes an appearance, but surprisingly, he's Goku from Dragon Ball GT!

This took place long before Dragon Ball Super existed as the official continuation to Dragon Ball.

So why would this have any bearing on GT still being canon?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Why would it be separate? If Dr. Slump and Dragon Ball exist within the same timeline, then GT should exist in the primary canon.

I only have a 15 minute break (currently at work) so I'll make this quick....

I could have addressed the entire matter from top to bottom but my attention is split between different tasks so Ill make this quick
In regards to DBGT. I would not say that they specifically share the same timeline with Dr. Slump, not in the way your thinking at least
Godofice basically said 10% of what I would have said had I had the full time

This scan here is all that is needed to make my point
Basically, All that happens and occurs in Dr. Slump is written to happen. Thats the nature of Dr. Slumps reality. DBGT existing was simply because the Author Avatars simply drew it to exist nothing more and nothing less. Its NOT because the Brief Returns chronologically flows into the DBGT timeline (even more so because Z-Timeline Goku and Goten made appearances in the chapters as well) but more so because the Author Avatars HAS the KNOWLEDGE of DBGT's world and simply drew it into being because they can which proves that Author Avatars of the Main timeline are aware of DBGT existence in the multiverse.

Dr. Slump and the original series exist in one timeline. GT co-exists with Dr. Slump. Therefore, GT co-exists with the original series.

They already answered that.