A lazy man and his gigantic text (Guardian Downgrade and Additions)

[Wokistan]

I can easily see D2 having tier 4 feats. I just can't think of any. If they're there feel free to do that.

 

[Wokistan]

Riven can probably scale to tier 4 but this stuff is a lot easier to just upgrade later when the characters can actually be analyzed.

 

[Archaron]

Except they do not. Warlocks in particular lost mid godly, exotics shift, the Guardians are clearly not at their apex of power any more. If there are tier 4 feats in D2 the second key can have those, but I do not remember any.

You actually can do that, and that's already a huge point of contention for characters who even have reasoning between tier 2. Don't scale guardians there as of now.

The warlock losing his mid godly solely because an active skill is not on his list of skills, is not an argument to separate by keys, only that logically they should have a certain difference in time to use his Regenerationn on versus thread. Okay, you can prove to me that the guardian is "weaker" because logically he never gets stronger, his tier is varied again this argument has no basis unless proven and if you proves denying the varied tier.

I am willing to debate about tier 2 of the guardian, and I do not really guarantee that if he denies the level he will be declaring the PIS.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I can easily see D2 having tier 4 feats. I just can't think of any. If they're there feel free to do that.

I can easily believe it too, but I just haven't seen any yet. At all. If someone wants to go through the entire DLCs feel free.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

There is none the closest thing to Tier 4 is Ghaul's Ship needing a sun to recharge.

 

[Wokistan]

I could see tier 4 some raid bosses, especially Riven. As of now its safer to not, unless there's also the nova bomb thing in which case we can do 4-C off of them being generally weaker but not overwhelmingly so.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Riven would be... something. Maybe. We should wait and see, though.

 

[CNBA3]

I don't really believe that a simple disconnection from the lake would mean that they are any less weaker via the Sword Logic since they didn't really truly die, With a new exotics they scale to planet level, and guardians retained their former powers too, with Nova Bomb being Star-Large Star.

The vex are fine what the lore is described as with 2-A since vault of glass. If it is described as beyond linear time then it has to be immeasurable.

The developers stated that Ghaul is the strongest enemy the guardians ever faced so he can be well above at least Material Oryx, possibly higher with light powers since he got it directly from the Traveler

 

[Archaron]

We have reached a conclusion. One person just isn't happy with it.

You are the definition of famous Mary goes with the others. Were you agreeing with everything the wok talks about, what are your motives? does not realize that separating by keys is simply wanting to separate the cheese from the milk.

@Wok yourself suggested the "possibly/likely Low 2-C" and now appears by simply denying the tier, I really do not understand this contradiction. I think we better ask the majority's opinion with our motives and arguments, and I hope all of us will argue why your agree, seriously.

 

[Wokistan]

...because I can change my mind? It's safer to not do that yet, and just add it later if we accept it, as that's already part of the Oryx revisions.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Nova bombs being collapsing stars doesn't really make any sense as it would mean every void walker warlock is star level at least.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Wew.

Archaron, I came in here disagreeing with most things. Woki is almost certainly more knowledgeable on the verse but I have made my points and the others have agreed to them. You are literally the only one trying to push for 2-A.

My intentions are to get a decent verse to an acceptable point. That means no wank. That is my intention. If Wok can create a feasible alternative to current tiering, I agree to it.

Please keep insults out of CRTs, my man. Cheers and have a nice day.

 

[Archaron]

That's your motive... oh god people have chosen a wrong person to always base himself.

Okay then, I've already applied what was discussed and accepted by most here. Can someone edit the profiles of the vexs? Aegis can you do that? I'm customizing the profile of the guardian at the moment, and preparing myself for the blog of the throne world.

 

[CNBA3]

@ Sigurd Snake in The Eye, nothing suggest that they can't, It is a matter of what they have and what they have done individually or as a group

 

[Archaron]

Wew.
Archaron, I came in here disagreeing with most things. Woki is almost certainly more knowledgeable on the verse but I have made my points and the others have agreed to them. You are literally the only one trying to push for 2-A.

My intentions are to get a decent verse to an acceptable point. That means no wank. That is my intention. If Wok can create a feasible alternative to current tiering, I agree to it.

Please keep insults out of CRTs, my man. Cheers and have a nice day.

I gave my point, if people do not agree with him then there is nothing I can do. And please do not put someone as knowledgeable of the verse, we all have our knowledge that we seek to look for, and we learn, but I think you do not look, and it's only based on the someone you think is right on the subject, what I really think is wrong.

With acceptable points, does it mean taking the smallest feat and saying that it is the largest? I do not agree with that, it's the same logic that in a calculation the low end is always the most reliable. We all have our opinions, but it is the argument that matters and not the person who brings it.

I did not insult you, what you are doing is literally the meaning of the definition of the term that I gave, whether it took as an insult simply was not.

 

[Wokistan]

Just leave it at possibly far higher, and don't start conflict here over this.

 

[Archaron]

Okay, I'm aware of that. Wok, you or aegis can edit the profile of atheon and panoptes?

 

[Wokistan]

I honestly don't know what to do with the vex files. I was talking about The Guardian.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

@Archaron I can change the pages if they are unlocked, yes.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@CNBA

Destiny is riddled with hyperbolic flavor text lol,this is the Orpheus Rigs the hunter exotic boots.

"Quantis Rhee has almost forgotten what colors are. For months, she has prowled the deep, shadowed catacombs of Nessus—the places where the inexorable Vex burrowed into the rogue planet and replaced natural life with a cold, inhuman labyrinth.

Light is scarce in this place. But Quantis knows how to find it—how to feel for the un-ripples of the Void, to draw Light from the infinities between spaces. She knows how to roll black holes between her fingertips, and how to nock her bow with the inescapable gravities of the universe.

Soon Quantis will leave this place, return to the City, report her findings. See colors again. But that won't last long. She is a Nightstalker. Out here—balanced upon the infinitesimal knife's edge—is where she truly belongs."

 

[Wokistan]

Ironically that may not even be hyperbolic, considering Graviton Lance also has black hole stuff. The "infinities between spaces" is just the Void.

 

[Archaron]

This thread ended up serving everyone not only the guardian, I believe the conclusion is above. I'm going to edit and I'll put "possibly far higher", but I still really disagree with changing keys, it will mess things up, especially with files after the 1st.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Ironically that may not even be hyperbolic, considering Graviton Lance also has black hole stuff. The "infinities between spaces" is just the Void.

You can hardly call that a black hole,it doesn't even function like one but it does shoot bullets that simulate it somewhat.

 

[Wokistan]

They're just tiny. Black holes that small aren't going to stick around. Regardless, that's not really the point of the thread. If we're good to go with the Hunter, I'll edit the AP to:

At least 5-C, likely 4-B (Defeated foes such as Malok, Pride of Oryx, The Warpriest, and Oryx, the Taken King), possibly far higher (something something tier 2 scaling isn't set in stone) | At least 5-C (While overall weaker than their Destiny 1 selves, still defeated the likes of a group of Taken who were stated to destroy a moon and Hiraks, the Mindbender, who was able to shift an asteroid in and out of his Ascendant Realm), possibly far higher (Defeated Dominus Ghaul, who was said to be the strongest foe in Destiny, something about Vex scaling maybe not being ok)

 

[Wokistan]

What the hell happened to the formatting

 

[Archaron]

Funny that void light manipulates gravity, but even so it interprets as hyperbole, I still do not understand why.

 

[Wokistan]

Can someone get me links to use on the Ghaul statement and the Taken moon bust though? Always good to have sources.

 

[CNBA3]

@Sigurd: if it was hyperbolic, how did we even fight God's like Oryx, Atheom, Akris, Ghaul, etc? Even texts like that are born of truths, grimoire is not a form of fable story telling, it is told as lore, things that happened.

With sword logic, the Guardians can challenge Oryx who's Universal level. And even challenged Vex elite.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

@Wokistan Here's the Ghaul statement.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@CNBA

By completeing a series of steps to weaken them before you get insta killed.

 

[Wokistan]

Guys we're not arguing about Orpheus rig right now. We're getting the AP fixed before anything else.

@Galaxian Thanks. Now if Bambu (he first brought it to my attention) or anyone else can send me the Taken statement or tell me what level, we'll be good to go.

 

[CNBA3]

More like repeated steps as they tank attacks of such level. That changes nothing what happened.

 

[Archaron]

@Wok

I disagree with the "likely 4-B", I have already shown that the guardian challenged oryx in the 1x1 along his entire court. The warpriest has full citation of involvement during the war against the taishibeth, which would leave the guardian as "at most 4-B". And again you can prove that it is "weaker" than in destiny 1? because as far as I know, his strength derives from his light and nothing else.

 

[Wokistan]

You disagree with likely 4-B but support at most? I don't see what you mean here. PRetty sure raids not being soloed is also canon, considering other examples of canon raids (The disastrous first attempt on Crota, Riven)


They lost the light and had to reclaim it from shards of the traveler, the traveler was not treated the best by Ghaul. I can probably scale Riven to 4-B as is, but for now I'd rather just go with the safe option and put something set in stone.

 

[CNBA3]

Here is the taken regular feat https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/sacrilege?highlight=Io

Actually that depends on the Guardians story from the very beginning of D2 which tells what they did in D1

I still strongly believe Guardians can go higher via challenging Vex, though I was skeptical at first, now there is no need for that after looking back at the lore

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Wokistan

I don't really see how Ghaul is the most powerful foe ever,like how is he above Oryx if were to take that interview seriously? ( I guess he did cripple all of the Guardians.)

 

[Archaron]

@Archaron I can change the pages if they are unlocked, yes.

Ask the ant to open it, he will open it for you, just say it is to apply the revision.

 

[Wokistan]

I don't think it makes much sense either, but the main reason for the possibly far higher is the ambiguity surrounding Vex and tier 2 hive. Him being above like an echo of Oryx isn't that big of a stretch.

 

[Wokistan]

Galaxian I can do the Guardian if you want.

 

[CNBA3]

Well this is not the first case vsbsttle uses author's quotes about characters being stronger than other people, via "word of god"