A few more Arceus abilities

[DaFritzi]

As Dragonmasterxyz said.

In Arceus case it's ridiculously hard to get rid of his conscousness since it's basically everywhere and in everything. Also it doesn't matter how little of the OS is left Arceus will come back, but without the OS he can't, therefore low-godly.

But it's no problem that he "only" has low-godly, combine that with type 8 reliant on nearly everything that is and you got a defense monster that you can only beat if you erase the entire multiverse along with all its timelines and all it's concepts.

 

[Aparajita]

So, has this been accepted/concluded?

 

[DaFritzi]

If Cal agrees. This are the points that would be added to the profile:

- Non-corporeal

- Low-godly regen

- Type 8 Immortality (reliant on Pokemon, people, the concepts of time/space/antimatter/emotion/willpower/knowledge, therefore the multiverse itself)

I also included emotion/willpower/knowledge because of the lake trio, if we include time/space/antimatter because of the creation trio, it should apply them as well. If someone disagrees with this we can discuss it further.

Everyone fine with the wording?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ahh kk I see now. However I have another question. Since we accept that the concepts must be destroyed before Arceus can truly die, due to verse equalization wouldn't he also revive if his opponents still alive?

For example, if his opponents still have wills or emotions in them, then couldn't Arceus revive from that due to them still having something that abided by the concepts of willpower and emotion?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No. That would be saying like SMT characters can't die because their opponent is still alive. Same with Tiamat from F/GO.

 

[Aparajita]

No. That would be saying like SMT characters can't die because their opponent is still alive. Same with Tiamat from F/GO.

Something in Undertale. Oh yeah, Chara can't die until the concept of violence is destroyed?

 

[DontTalk]

You kinda lost me. Because creating a manifestation is not close to shapeshifting.

Fashinoning oneself into an egg is shapeshifting. Creating a manifestation is nothing but low level reality warping. Anyone with halfway good matter manipulation can create himself a physical body.


I still believe type 8 is nonsense.

Assume you kill of arceus diembodied conciousness completly, without any trace left in any place, including the parts in all pokemons and humans: Which quote tells you that he can then regenerate even if that is the case?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, if he did it before, he can do it again. Original Spirit is originally just that. A spirit. An awareness. It created itself a llama god once. The myth explicitly states that the awareness, which means consciousness, and spirit, is inside the people and Pokemon of Sinnoh. If the same awareness created a physical form once, why should he be incapable of creating one again?

 

[DontTalk]

Well, I have nothing against low-godly regen and non-corporeality, I suppose.

I don't think the rest is justified though.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I have added those two, then. Though, isn't this the same type 8 several SMT characters have? Reliant on the believers, or in this case, the created?

 

[DontTalk]

I don't know SMT characters, so I don't know what they have and why.

If they are explained to regenerate as long as there are people believing in their existence (something that I think is a common point for Shinto gods, since they are born from believe or something like that), that is something entirely different than the case with arceus.

In arceus case it is just stated that he is part of humans, not that he would regenerate if those parts are destroyed as long as there are humans.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Arceus is based on Shinto stuff though.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Actually, I think I'm starting to see what you mean. The fact that Arceus can regenerate from that doesn't mean that he's reliant on that. While this makes for some broken Low Godly regen, it doesn't necessarily mean type 8 immortality.

 

[DaFritzi]

I understand, if someone where to destroy the spirit within all people, pokemon, whatsoever than Arceus could be destroyed even though those people still exist.

I don't mind dropping type 8 then. We could add type 3 instead (immortality through regen).

If we drop type 8 however I suggest adding an explanation to the profile about where the OS is (people, pokemon, concepts, multiverse itself) and that as long as there is even the slightest trace of the OS left Arceus will be able to regenerate.

It might be only type 3 and only low-godly regen by exact definition, but it should be stated in the profile how much more powerful Arceus regen/immortality is than the terms convey.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well isnt the spirits of all people, pokemon, etc, part of the OS? As in, their whole soul in general is?

Wouldnt destroying the OS inside a person or pokemon mean their whole soul is destroyed?

 

[DontTalk]

as long as there is even the slightest trace of the OS left Arceus will be able to regenerate.

Can you really speak of parts of a disembodied conciousness though? Like those spiritual things aren't terribly bound to shape, something like destroying half a soul/disembodied conciousness sounds strange to me. And if you can actually just destroy parts of a soul/disembodied conciousness could the rest of it die due to it, like a human would die if you blew away half its body?

It might be only type 3 and only low-godly regen by exact definition, but it should be stated in the profile how much more powerful Arceus regen/immortality is than the terms convey.

That kinda is conveyed through the fact that Arceus is listed as omnipresent, though. Like, basically every omnipresent entity has that, unless they need a physical body due to some reasons.

@Kukui: As far as I understand the sinnoh myth, it was like that in the past, but at that time every human was also every other human and pokemon basically. At that time everything shared spirit and awareness.

In the present that is kinda obviously not the case anymore in pokemon verse. (like there are seperate beings not sharing their conciousness with each other)

It also would kinda imply that there is only one soul in pokemon...


So I don't think there is anything that would suggest that arceus actively is everyone.

(and if he were that would kinda still not be type 8, since in that case the people you say he would have immortality dependend on are Arceus, which brings back the point that you can not have type 8 dependend on yourself...)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

DT's right. I understand his point now. Arceus has something reminiscent of type 8, but we cannot define it as type 8. Arceus's regen is like a duplication user hiding a clone so they can come back if something bad happened.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ahh k so it isnt type 8 immo its just really good low-godly regen and type 3 immortality right?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah.

 

[DaFritzi]

I agree with everything so far.

@DT. I understand, so Non-Corporeal + Omnipresent means that you are essentially everwhere and in everyone/everything at the same time. Makes sense.

However I still think that it should be noted in the profile that Arceus consciousness even exists in the concepts themselves, because that does not automatically come to mind when you read omnipresent.

 

[DaFritzi]

Bump. I want to know if someone supports this. I would like to have this added because otherwise in an Arceus vs thread you would have to explain everything we discussed here for someone to accept this argument. (Or can you just link this thread as proof?)

 

[The_Everlasting]

Bumping this, as I was thinking it over and realized it didn't make much sense.

Why would creating an entirely different avatar qualify as giving the avatars Low-Godly Regen?

It's like saying MCU Ultron has Low-Godly Regen because he can possess his other robots if his original body is destroyed.

 

[DaFritzi]

That depends on the point of view. Arceus and OS are the same being = low godly regen. Arceus and OS are separate beings = type 8 immortality relient on OS (and whatever is part of it).

The myth never mentiones those two as seperate entities which is, I believe why we decided on regen. But if doubt this I have no problem discussing it further.

About Ultron: Can Ultron rebuild himself from other robots? To me this seems like parasitic immortality.