A different essay for Ascended Athena????? (God of War)

[Georredannea15]

Alr, Here we go!

1. Transduality: Characters with this type of nonduality exist outside and independently of the logical systems they're nondual regarding while also possessing qualitative superiority to them. Besides immunizing them against the dualities in question, this power also immunizes them against attempts to apply those dualities to them, as they would transcend the scope of the haxes that could do so.

As Page explains, Transduality is divided into "Non-duality/Transduality", and transduality is basically being beyond dualities/non-dual beings.

Now, to get to the point, Athena, who sacrificed to save Zeus, she ascended to a higher existence. As a result, she gained higher power and higher existence than anyone else.

Yes, basically Athena, according to Cory Barlog's statements, ascended to a higher existence, transcendent of all powers and all beings in all pantheons.

And among these beings, realms and powers, this includes the primordial beings. And primordial beings are themselves non-dual beings possessing non-duality, that is, non-dual beings lack and indepented of dualities. Their non-duality is that they are basically independent and unaffected by all dualities in their realms and in reality (Already accepted in the wiki.) As for Athena, according to the Cory's and in game statements i quoted above, is a being has a higher existence, which is beyond all powers, all realms and all beings in all reality.

This is fundamentally important because Nonduality/Transduality is fundamentally a state of existence, and Athena, by the statement in the game and by Cory's interwiew supported by the game, clearly has a higher existence againts them.

And also, because of she's "higher existence", she has an existence that cannot be interacted, even with forces that affect dual forces and non-dual beings(primordial beings and primordial forces.)

TL;DR

• With her transcendent existence, Athena has a higher existence than all realms, all powers, all beings and all of reality plane.
• Among the beings that she transcends and has a higher existence, there are primordials, which are non-dual beings that are independent and unaffected by dualities, and dualities that have primordial powers and are spread throughout all reality.
• Thanks to she's higher existence, she has a non-interactive state against primordial realms/forces(they contain dualities), primordial beings(non-dual beings), all forces that affect them and all of the reality.

So, she should has Non-duality type 2 with aspect type 2 in she's ascended key.

Don't worry, this isn't a 6-D or similar upgrade, Athena will still remain where she is.

 

[Gasper]

Agree, surprised she dosen't have that already.

 

[Georredannea15]

Agree, surprised she dosen't have that already.

With the new standards and the existence of non-dual beings and dualities in the verse, she definitely should have this.

 

[Georredannea15]

Is there a thread for it ?
link

It's already in the OP, I even added profiles that are already accepted on the wiki

 

[KLOL506]

Nah. I ain't touching this with a 10-meter pole.

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Ultima_Reality IDK who else to tag for Transduality-related shit.

 

[Georredannea15]

My brother doesn't touch of this.

Jokes aside, as you can see from the standards and feats... She should have this

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Is this transcendence over dualities by property of having qualities above dual systems? Or is this simply a more "alien" state to non-duality?

If its the latter, then this should be still non-duality.

 

[Georredannea15]

Is this transcendence over dualities by property of having qualities above dual systems? Or is this simply a more "alien" state to non-duality?

If its the latter, then this should be still non-duality.

For Athena, in terms of her "existence", she transcends all reality, all beings, all non-dual beings (primordial beings )and dual realms(primordial realms). She has a higher existence, and these, even non-dual beings and powers superior to dual forces (primordial forces) cannot interact with Athena because of she's "transcended existence."

Btw, these primordial and dual realms, as well as non-dual beings, are what the wiki currently accepts, as I added in the OP with their profiles.

 

[Deagonx]

I'm kind of surprised the Primordials have Nonduality given the justification:

Nonduality (Nature Type 1, Aspect Type 2) (Are the personifications of the most fundamental aspects of reality,[9] predating and being independent of any and all of them.[10] Said aspects include, space and time, life and death, darkness and light, dreams and the physical world and more)

Perhaps this simply wasn't written well, but the first scan doesn't say literally anything like that. In fact, it's just pictures of the Primordials, their names, and then the meaning of their names. Ourea literally just means mountains. The second link is a 6 hour video, but it's time stamped at 0:13s so I watched for a little bit and didn't hear anything about them predating or being independent to aspects of reality.

So I mean, I don't reject the reasoning for Athena, but it's really odd that we don't have more concrete evidence for the Primordials.

 

[Georredannea15]

I'm kind of surprised the Primordials have Nonduality given the justification:


Perhaps this simply wasn't written well, but the first scan doesn't say literally anything like that. In fact, it's just pictures of the Primordials, their names, and then the meaning of their names. Ourea literally just means mountains. The second link is a 6 hour video, but it's time stamped at 0:13s so I watched for a little bit and didn't hear anything about them predating or being independent to aspects of reality.

So I mean, I don't reject the reasoning for Athena, but it's really odd that we don't have more concrete evidence for the Primordials.

I guess you were in that revision too, I also added the revision to the OP just in case. Scans and statements are there.

Btw, being independent and unaffected by dualities, as well as existing before them, is a simple example of non-duality.

 

[Deagonx]

Scans and statements are there.

Right but shouldn't they be... in the justification?

 

[Georredannea15]

Right but shouldn't they be... in the justification?

Yeah, I didn't edit these and frankly I don't even know how to edit them.

We can add and fix it later.

I'm glad I added the previous OP

 

[NHTkenshin2]

For Athena, in terms of her "existence", she transcends all reality, all beings, all non-dual beings (primordial beings )and dual realms(primordial realms). She has a higher existence, and these, even non-dual beings and powers superior to dual forces (primordial forces) cannot interact with Athena because of she's "transcended existence."

Btw, these primordial and dual realms, as well as non-dual beings, are what the wiki currently accepts, as I added in the OP with their profiles.

My question was more if she is this beyond this non-duality by specifically having qualities beyond it (i.e. the idea of duality being inferior to her). If she simply exists in a higher dimension in comparison to these non-dual entities then she is simply just more alien to these dualities, the important bit is if she has qualities fundamentally superior to them.

I guess this could work if there is confirmation that the primordial forces are "all of duality"

 

[Georredannea15]

My question was more if she is this beyond this non-duality by specifically having qualities beyond it (i.e. the idea of duality being inferior to her). If she simply exists in a higher dimension in comparison to these non-dual entities then she is simply just more alien to these dualities, the important bit is if she has qualities fundamentally superior to them.

Certainly she has an existence that is transcendent, higher existence than even these forces, all of beings, and realms. So, because of she's transcended existence, she cannot be harmed by them and even she has a situation that she cannot be interacted with them.

I guess this could work if there is confirmation that the primordial forces are "all of duality"

Primordial realms are also dual realms(contains dualities) and primordial forces are dual forces, and primordial beings are non-dual beings. This is already accepted on the wiki

Frankly, it does not matter whether primordials are non-dual beings or not, but I can say that they are extra supports.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I definitely agree

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Seems fine

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Looks good to me.

 

[Fixxed]

Well from my view athena and hope must be aspect type 3

She transcend morpheus that are stated to be the oneness logic, unite the duality. And the other primordial that are neither duality or oneness

So she transcend duality and nonduality

 

[Benimōru]

Ya, looks perfectly good.

 

[KLOL506]

She transcend morpheus that are stated to be the oneness logic, unite the duality.

We don't use this statement anymore. Just in case people forget.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, I didn't edit these and frankly I don't even know how to edit them.

We can add and fix it later.

I'm glad I added the previous OP

@Planck69 Can you help with this, given that you helped in the Primordial Nonduality revision?

 

[Georredannea15]

Dude, why did this one die so fast, why isn't anyone looking? There were many staff and users participating in TD threads on the wiki

 

[KLOL506]

Dude, why did this one die so fast, why isn't anyone looking? There were many staff and users participating in TD threads on the wiki

Those threads that revised TD and ND were half-assed so to speak.

I don't think this thread or the previous one will matter in the long run, as Ultima plans to overhaul transduality entirely, ridding me of this one particular headache once and for all. But alas, it's not coming anytime soon, certainly not before I leave for Canada.

 

[Matrixxxx]

Absolutely agree

 

[Georredannea15]

Those threads that revised TD and ND were half-assed so to speak.

I don't think this thread or the previous one will matter in the long run, as Ultima plans to overhaul transduality entirely, ridding me of this one particular headache once and for all. But alas, it's not coming anytime soon, certainly not before I leave for Canada.

Honestly, I can't wait that long. The TD and ND thread before this took months and was much discussed.

If the staff thinks it's up to the new standards, then I'll move on.

Btw, good luck with going to Canada, man.

 

[Georredannea15]

Bump??

 

[AloseVQ]

Alr, Here we go!

As Page explains, Transduality is divided into "Non-duality/Transduality", and transduality is basically being beyond dualities/non-dual beings.

Now, to get to the point, Athena, who sacrificed to save Zeus, she ascended to a higher existence. As a result, she gained higher power and higher existence than anyone else.

Yes, basically Athena, according to Cory Barlog's statements, ascended to a higher existence, transcendent of all powers and all beings in all pantheons.

And among these beings, realms and powers, this includes the primordial beings. And primordial beings are themselves non-dual beings possessing non-duality, that is, non-dual beings lack and indepented of dualities. Their non-duality is that they are basically independent and unaffected by all dualities in their realms and in reality (Already accepted in the wiki.) As for Athena, according to the Cory's and in game statements i quoted above, is a being has a higher existence, which is beyond all powers, all realms and all beings in all reality.

This is fundamentally important because Nonduality/Transduality is fundamentally a state of existence, and Athena, by the statement in the game and by Cory's interwiew supported by the game, clearly has a higher existence againts them.

And also, because of she's "higher existence", she has an existence that cannot be interacted, even with forces that affect dual forces and non-dual beings(primordial beings and primordial forces.)

TL;DR

• With her transcendent existence, Athena has a higher existence than all realms, all powers, all beings and all of reality plane.
• Among the beings that she transcends and has a higher existence, there are primordials, which are non-dual beings that are independent and unaffected by dualities, and dualities that have primordial powers and are spread throughout all reality.
• Thanks to she's higher existence, she has a non-interactive state against primordial realms/forces(they contain dualities), primordial beings(non-dual beings), all forces that affect them and all of the reality.

So, she should has Non-duality type 2 with aspect type 2 in she's ascended key.

Don't worry, this isn't a 6-D or similar upgrade, Athena will still remain where she is.

Looks good, I agree.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

That's the way it should be. I agree.

 

[Planck69]

Anyway, the evidence seems more than enough, especially with a visual showcase of non-interaction from Kratos, who can interact with souls, magic, concepts and space-time with his bare hands.

I agree with the upgrade.

@KingTempest @Lonkitt @Celestial_Pegasus @LephyrTheRevanchist @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X

Thoughts?

 

[Robo432343]

don't you need proof that she transcends ALL dualities, not just some??

 

[Deagonx]

don't you need proof that she transcends all dualities, not just some??

Yeah. Nonduality Type 1 would be the more natural conclusion, assuming the Primordials actually represent dualities.

 

[Georredannea15]

don't you need proof that she transcends ALL dualities, not just some??

The dualities of the primordials are already all dualities in the verse, Athena "has a higher existence that transcends all powers, all beings, all primordial realms and the entire plane"

Even as a result of this, she has a non-interactive state towards them. So yeah, we have this

 

[Deagonx]

The dualities of the primordials are already all dualities in the verse, Athena "has a higher existence that transcends all powers, all beings, all primordial realms and the entire plane"

Even as a result of this, she has a non-interactive state towards them. So yeah, we have this

Right, but to get Transduality you need to have Qualitative Superiority to them. As was discussed in the prior CRT and mentioned briefly in the gen thread about Ultima's revision, Athena has no evidence supporting qualitative superiority over the rest of GoW.

 

[Georredannea15]

Right, but to get Transduality you need to have Qualitative Superiority to them. As was discussed in the prior CRT and mentioned briefly in the gen thread about Ultima's revision, Athena has no evidence supporting qualitative superiority over the rest of GoW.

Athena's denied qualitative superiority was precisely dimensional superiority, qualitative superiority is something that works differently in TD, which means being always superior to each of these concepts.


QS used in dimensional superiority =/= QS used in TD, this has already been discussed in the previous TD thread. And this is something that is usually evidenced by your transcendence and non-interactable with dualities, and most importantly it has to be from the point of view of existence.

 

[Planck69]

I think what Geor is going for might be Nonduality Type 1 Aspect 2, which goes for all dualities but not via being qualitatively above them in the sense of being of a higher dimensional/order nature.

That should fit here better. I suppose it can be considered superior to the Primordials but I don't know how that'd work.

 

[Planck69]

Athena's denied qualitative superiority was precisely dimensional superiority, qualitative superiority is something that works differently in TD, which means being always superior to each of these concepts.


QS used in dimensional superiority =/= QS used in TD, this has already been discussed in the previous TD thread

The link goes to the Tiering System FAQ so I dunno about this.

 

[Deagonx]

Athena's denied qualitative superiority was precisely dimensional superiority, qualitative superiority is something that works differently in TD, which means being always superior to each of these concepts.


QS used in dimensional superiority =/= QS used in TD, this has already been discussed in the previous TD thread

Where was that discussed? I cannot imagine us using the phrase "qualitative superiority" in two different ways given that this is a term we invented ourselves. It would be entirely pointless to do that because we could just say "superior" to.

 

[Georredannea15]

The link goes to the Tiering System FAQ so I dunno about this.

Let me put it this way, the qualitative superiority here was initially wanted to be removed due to confusion, and what happened here is the simplest example of this

The qualitative superiority found in TD means to be always superior to these concepts and to be non-interactive towards them, and you have to do this from the point of view of existence.

And yes, this is clearly shown in Athena

 

[Robo432343]

I think what Geor is going for might be Nonduality Type 1 Aspect 2, which goes for all dualities but not via being qualitatively above them in the sense of being of a higher dimensional/order nature.

That should fit here better. I suppose it can be considered superior to the Primordials but I don't know how that'd work.

yes i agree with this

 

[Planck69]

Let me put it this way, the qualitative superiority here was initially wanted to be removed due to confusion, and what happened here is the simplest example of this

The qualitative superiority found in TD means to be always superior to these concepts and to be non-interactive towards them, and you have to do this from the point of view of existence.

And yes, this is clearly shown in Athena

Can you link to the thread then? The only mention on the pages is about tiering.