A Contradictory Rule for Tier High 3-A to Low 2-C Jumps

[Aachintya31]

This thread was made in regards to the recently concluded (almost 1.5 months) Tier 2 Requirements and Examples Revision thread. The follow up or part 2 of it covers an entirely different issue which is not my concern. I didn't raise my concerns there because it would clog the thread and i could be banned for derailment.

The Issue :

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

Low 2-C: Universe level+​

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale.

Notice the bolded part "Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier."
Now for example ,we have a character capable of destroying a significant part of space-time continuum on a universal scale but not entire past, present and future . This character under consideration would be destroying uncountable infinite 3-D snapshots of the universe which should grant him a tier higher than High 3-A but not Low 2-C (because of the condition of affecting entirety of past ,present and future).
According to Continuum Hypothesis , there is no such thing as being higher into countable infinite without being uncountable infinite.

Conclusion :

Remove the entire past ,present and future and add this to the definition of Low 2-C

Low 2-C: Universe level+​

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (affecting the significant parts of a timeline not necessarily entire past, present and future. ) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.

B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.

 

[Reiner04]

Basically True but be ready for the storm.

 

[Planck69]

I do agree that there's a bit of an issue in regards to those feats but I don't think this would be the best way to solve them.

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT

What do you guys think?

 

[DontTalkDT]

This is already handled by Low 2-C criteria A).
Either one can demonstrate that the area corresponds in size to a large extradimensional space, and get upgraded, or one can't and isn't.

Generally, the gaps are still uncountably infinite, though. That we count small higher dimensions as not higher is where the exception lies. (and not just for this, but for every dimensional tier) Small extradimensional spaces are basically considered different in size depending on whether you have one of them or many of them chained together. Hence it's not wrong to say that infinitely times more powerful than small extradimensional space is still 3-D level (because we consider such a small space 3D level), but infinity small spaces together is 4-D level (as we then consider each small space small 4-D level). That weirdness is just a consequence of making our tiering system not 100% math based.

 

[Reiner04]

Either one can demonstrate that the area corresponds in size to a large extradimensional space

So basically there is a character who destroyed 1 hour of timeline, will he be upgraded to low 2C?

 

[Aachintya31]

This is already handled by Low 2-C criteria A).
Either one can demonstrate that the area corresponds in size to a large extradimensional space, and get upgraded, or one can't and isn't.

Fine. I guess. There are a lot of verses who are Atleast High 3-A for this. for example

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Damn, how straight forward.

And yeah, I also thought the requirement of needing to destroy Past, present and future was kinda whack....

Like, most Universal characters can't do that lol.

 

[Everything12]

Disagree, this is one of those cases where mathematics says one thing while fiction generally treats it a different way. As a fictional series indexing site we go with the way that bests fits with how fiction operates.

 

[Reiner04]

I think DT already answered it, it can be closed

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I think DT already answered it, it can be closed

Everything12 .....disagrees and we don't haber enough Staff input...

Threads like this require at least 3-4 staff to be approved.

 

[Reiner04]

3-4 staff

DT solos

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

DT solos

DDM solos.............

 

[Reiner04]

DDM solos.............

Indeed

 

[Everything12]

I don't think DontTalkDT was agreeing to the threads proposed change. More speaking about how the logic was correct, but we don't quite use it.

 

[Aachintya31]

Disagree, this is one of those cases where mathematics says one thing while fiction generally treats it a different way. As a fictional series indexing site we go with the way that bests fits with how fiction operates.

For no reason ? You’re literally saying you know it’s wrong but it’s going to stay that way because you say so fiction operates like that.

 

[Aachintya31]

I don't think DontTalkDT was agreeing to the threads proposed change. More speaking about how the logic was correct, but we don't quite use it.

Yeah. I suppose if those are already covered then there is no need to change the definitions whatsoever.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

For no reason ? You’re literally saying you know it’s wrong but it’s going to stay that way because you say so fiction operates like that.

 

[Everything12]

For no reason ? You’re literally saying you know it’s wrong but it’s going to stay that way because you say so fiction operates like that.

The reason is that it would cause issues to arise with tiering, so mathematics takes a backseat in this case because tiering fictional series accurately is more important than being mathematical accurate.

 

[Reiner04]

I don't think DontTalkDT was agreeing to the threads proposed change. More speaking about how the logic was correct, but we don't quite use it.

Yeah. Anyway @OP want's the thread closed can you do it?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Indeed

̶C̶h̶e̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶D̶i̶s̶c̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶s̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶

 

[Aachintya31]

The reason is that it would cause issues to arise with tiering, so mathematics takes a backseat in this case because tiering fictional series accurately is more important than being mathematical accurate.

Thank You E12 for your input .
I guess we need to extensively use other definitions of Low 2-C i've seen not being often used and such cases arise where characters are scaled Atleast High 3-A or possibly Low 2-C.

 

[Reiner04]

̶C̶h̶e̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶D̶i̶s̶c̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶s̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶

Indian songs always have a nice bits to them especially one based off older culture.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Indian songs always have a nice bits to them especially one based off older culture.

̶P̶u̶n̶j̶a̶b̶i̶ ̶s̶o̶n̶g̶s̶ ̶

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Agree. The Past, Present, and Future exist within the same spacetime. It is weird to say that a character can destroy space-time on a universal scale but did not destroy the present, future, past etc. Then it would not be universal scale.

 

[Reiner04]

Someone should close it already tbh

 

[Antvasima]

Someone should close it already tbh

I will do so. That you to everybody who helped out here.