9-B+ tournament round 1, match 2 (Rarity vs Sarasvati)

[Lightbuster30]

I say OP should search up a virtual coin tosser, give the pony and vampire one side and choose the side it lands on. Or just use an actual coin if they can't find one. Idk, leave it to chance or something.

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Change my vote to incon

 

[Coolboy6]

Ok counted

 

[Sonicflare9]

saras fra

 

[J.J._Chambers]

Sarasvati FRA

 

[Coolboy6]

Counted and grace

 

[Lightbuster30]

Right, so two things

1. Shouldn't there be 4 votes for incon since pepper changed from Rarity to incon?
2. If anyone thinks the incon reasoning is invalid they can kindly say something. As far as I'm concerned, none of the reasoning for Rarity not keeping the shield up is legit. Sara's teleporting and flying everywhere? Makes Rarity hide behind the shield almost immediately to avoid injury since she knows she won't get a hit in. Can't hold the shield up forever? Wrong again. She only has to wait for a recharge while inside the shield. Sara's can break the shield? Again, no, Gloriosa has more firepower than anything the verse has cooked up, and can't break the shields without serious effort. This also ties back into the recharge deal: The more effort Rarity puts into the shields; the video I put last comment shows it, the faster it depletes. The sheer power gap between those two characters means Rarity will be exhausting almost none of her magical stamina since the shield only has to go to 9-B+.

Will idiotically put the shield down to try a fight she knows she can't win outright, all because she "Has to fight"? I mean hey, if people want to effectively mind control a character into losing by all means. Totally a legit way to win. A little side note, I've looked at dozens of profiles with incons way before this match, and I'll say more than half of them would have bullshit incons if this logic actually worked. So either their profiles are wrong, or a character willingly inducing an incon is a legitimate strategy.

I have yet to see any reason why the incon isn't a valid option.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Sarasvati outlives

 

[Lightbuster30]

Oh right, vampire. Would've been nice if that were the first argument brought up the first time I mentioned an icon. Would've saved me a headache.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Hey, wait does she even have any wincons then? She can't trap because Sarasvati just teleports or elemental intangs out (Watching the video, Seraphim appeared to turn into leaves at times, so I guess it was legit the whole time). She can't bypass the regen, so AP is out of the question, and she can't hide in a shield. If there're no wincons Coolboy might as well just request a mod to close this and have Saras move to the next match.

 

[Coolboy6]

Forgot to mention that Rarity can Restrain people with her shield projectiles (1:39)

Hey, wait does she even have any wincons then? She can't trap because Sarasvati just teleports or elemental intangs out (Watching the video, Seraphim appeared to turn into leaves at times, so I guess it was legit the whole time). She can't bypass the regen, so AP is out of the question, and she can't hide in a shield. If there're no wincons Coolboy might as well just request a mod to close this and have Saras move to the next match.

She could do this

 

[Lightbuster30]

She could do this

I just pointed out in that very comment why it would not work.

 

[Coolboy6]

I wouldn’t say it’s a stomp if the opponent could hold their own long enough before being defeated if that’s how the rules work

 

[Lightbuster30]

That's not what a stomp is. It's not you instantly losing or not being able to put up a fight. It simply means zero way to win as it was defined to me. And honestly, with all the flying teleporting going around, it really would be a stomp. Prolonging a fight doesn't suddenly mean you stand a chance. That literally flies in the face of what it means to "stand a chance".

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Lightbuster, this match isn't a stomp. Just because Sarasvati has moves and abilities that allow her circumvent Rarity's own doesn't make it a stomp, only decisive.

Common Examples of a Decisive/Non-Stomp Match:

• Both characters have several methods of winning, including options that allow them to win instantly. However, one character can reliably use/activate their winning move(s) first.
• One character has more ways to win than the other, but the other character wins more times than not due to matchup specifics that allow/cause them to use their winning move(s) immediately.
• Both characters are otherwise evenly matched in terms of stats and abilities, but one has regeneration that the other cannot easily surmount.
• Both characters are evenly matched and have regenerative and defensive abilities that prevent the other from killing them, but one character has moves that allow for them to gain the upper hand.

This match falls under the umbrella of decisive, not that of a stomp.

Rarity can defend, block and protect herself from Sarasvati's attacks, and she can attack and damage Sarasvati. Rarity isn't helpless, and not all scenarios automatically lead to Sarasvati's victory/Rarity's loss. It's simply that Sarasvati achieves that more often than not.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Rarity can defend, block and protect herself from Sarasvati's attacks, and she can attack and damage Sarasvati. Rarity isn't helpless, and not all scenarios automatically lead to Sarasvati's victory/Rarity's loss.

Nope. Rarity has no way to win. She has to have a wincon to not be stomped. If the wincon can be undone like regenerating from fatal damage, then guess what? No wincon. Bfr someone to another Universe? Not a wincon if the other guy can travel to and fro Universes. The wincon needs to work. None of Rarities' wincons work. You think Rarity has a wincon? By all means, show me.

Stomp isn't defined by being able to block and damage. Stomp as far as I've been told, is defined by whether or not you have a wincon. Doesn't matter if Rarity can attack and defend, it's literally not possible for her to win.

It's simply that Sarasvati achieves that more often than not.

Uh? No? She achieves all scenarios period. There is no scenario where Rarity comes out on top or avoids defeat.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Based on what I've been shown on Rarity, she has ways of fighting Sarasvati and retaliating with her own attacks. Trapping her in that crystal ring you mentioned and then attacking her with crystals is possible and, with enough of them, it could defeat Sarasvati; it's simply hard for Rarity to achieve, but it's not a 0% chance. That makes it not a stomp, only decisive.

Healing damage with regeneration is literally listed as an example of not a stomp. And both characters have abilities that damage, block or restrain the other. The only difference is the likelihood of each working.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Rarity has no method of winning. None of her moves can actually work. Elemental intag instantly nulls restraining. if the wincon can be countered then it was never a wincon to begin with. Wincons need to actually work to be considered wincons. Bypass regen? She's not strong enough. Saras can outlIive, so being in a shield only delays a loss.

Rarity's moves can definitely work. Sarasvati doesn't have elemental intagibility, it was removed. Her agility and teleportation are what allow her to maneuver around the traps; however, it's not that there's 0 chance of Rarity managing a trap + crystal projectile combo to damage Sarasvati. Saras has regen, yes, but that doesn't make it a stomp. I don't understand how Saras outliving is a factor.

If Rarity has no way to win, then Saras won't be winning "more times", she'll be winning every. Single. Time. Rarity doesn't have more ways to win, she doesn't have ways to win period.

Treated above, but also that makes the battle decisive, not a stomp.

Having a hard time overcoming regen isn't the same as not being able to overcome it at all. Furthermore, they aren't evenly matched at all. Sara's is more than 1.5x her AP.

Saras's regen isn't to the point she can ignore all the damage she suffers. It helps her obviously, but not a valid point for a stomp. Also, while there's always a case by case scenario, but it was treated many times on the website that you generally need a x5 AP gap, at the very least, to have an AP stomp.

Rarity is neither evenly matched or capable of regen. More importantly, she doesn't have a single move that gives her the upper hand. At best she maybe, kinda, sorta, semi-slows Saras with a lucky crystal restraint before the latter ports out literally instantly? That would really be stretching the definition of "upper hand" imo.

Having some AP gap doesn't make "not evenly matched". Saras having regen and Rarity not doesn't make it a stomp either; the page site clearly says so. Rarity won't go down without a fight, you showcased that in detail with your arguments.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I just want to preface an apology for how long this comment is, but I think it's better than making two separate comments.

Based on what I've been shown on Rarity, she has ways of fighting Sarasvati and retaliating with her own attacks. Trapping her in that crystal ring you mentioned and then attacking her with crystals is possible and, with enough of them, it could defeat Sarasvati;

Who proceeds to dodge out of the way with teleportation every time. Teleportation insta gibs any chance she has at hitting her. Maybe if Saras had to physically move out of the way, which would give the projectiles a chance to hit, but that isn't what's going to happen. Why would Saras sit there and not escape asap?

Also, Rarity would have to hit several times in a row to cause critical damage. She's half as strong, and her non-restraining projectiles on go a few feet in front of her. Yes, I'm aware she used a bigger crystal, but it never caused damage and moved hilariously slowly. Comparatively, we see her closer range projectiles can't even hurt Vignette when she uses them. Her not being able to harm people with crystals is actually pretty consistent.

So, unless she rushes to Saras and physically hits her, she can't deal damage, and I will personally guarantee Saras won't teleport away from the most obvious attack of the century. Especially if she's as combat smart as you say she is.

it's simply hard for Rarity to achieve, but it's not a 0% chance. That makes it not a stomp, only decisive.

As far as I'm seeing? It goes beyond just "Hard to achieve".

Healing damage with regeneration is literally listed as an example of not a stomp.

Like I said, that only applies if the regen can't be beaten easily, not if you can't overcome it at all.

And both characters have abilities that damage,

Do you mean punching in the face? Because the crystals can't actually deal damage.

block or restrain the other.

Not permanently, and can instantly be escaped through teleportation. Also, for reasons posted in comment #101, she can't even use it in the first place.

Rarity's moves can definitely work.

How?

Sarasvati doesn't have elemental intagibility, it was removed.

Yeah, because I; a guy with no knowledge on the verse, questioned it one time. I even admitted later in the thread that there was a blatant example of it that I didn't see at first, and admitted I was wrong to question it.

however, it's not that there's 0 chance of Rarity managing a trap + crystal projectile combo to damage Sarasvati.

It can happen, but what I'm saying is it won't enable her to win. Rarity would have to spam punches over and over again while Saras sits there letting it happen. She already is 50% weaker, and her crystal projectiles can't harm comparables or weakers.

Saras has regen, yes, but that doesn't make it a stomp.

I never said regen made it a stomp, only that It's one of other ways this thread is a stomp. One way out of others, not the only way.

I don't understand how Saras outliving is a factor.

If Saras can outlive, then the Omni shield is worthless. Saras can just wait until Rarity dies of old age thanks to her longer lifespan.

Also, I was wrong about the Omni shield. I've rewatched the scene a few more times and I noticed she only did this in her pony-up form, which is way stronger and not her base form. So, she can't actually use the Omni shield to begin with due to not being in her base key.

Treated above, but also that makes the battle decisive, not a stomp.

Having no wincons and having no way to use those wincons to win does not a decisive match make. Does she have wincons? Can she win using said wincons to achieve victory? If the answer is no to one or both of those questions, you're dealing with a stomp thread.

Saras's regen isn't to the point she can ignore all the damage she suffers.

Maybe, but it means Rarity would have to punch over and over and over again, which isn't happening. Repeated attacks are the only way she can hurt Saras beyond her ability to regenerate. And that won't happen with her teleporting around, flying around, and recovering, Yet another wincon that can't actually be used to win.

you generally need a x5 AP gap, at the very least, to have an AP stomp.

I never said it was an AP stomp, but Rarity being less than half as strong means the number of successful attacks she'll have to deal in close range combat basically doubles.

Having some AP gap doesn't make "not evenly matched".

Not by itself, no, but I wasn't entirely talking about that. And it's not "some" AP gap. Half as strong is a massive detriment. Most people will get their asses handed to them hard if they don't have the skills to make up for it, which Rarity doesn't have, only decent reactions. Saras being as skilled as she is, just makes this so much worse for Rarity.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Wait a second.

Alright, just rewatched the video posted by Coolboy. The one showing Rarity using restraining crystals. Rarity was in pony-up form when she used the restaining crystal too. So, she doesn't have access to it in her base.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

A character not taking the chance they have at winning or it not being enough, versus them dying before they can even harm the enemy, is completely different. This match enters the 1st category.
There's a massive difference between a character that won't win versus a character that can't win. Rarity has ways of dealing with Sarasvati.

Who proceeds to dodge out of the way with teleportation every time. Teleportation insta gibs any chance she has at hitting her. Maybe if Saras had to physically move out of the way, which would give the projectiles a chance to hit, but that isn't what's going to happen. Why would Saras sit there and not escape asap?

Sarasvati having teleportation doesn't guarantee Rarity won't hit or restrain her. To begin with, Sarasvati usually starts fighting with her sword, not at ranged. So at that range, Rarity definitely has the opportunity to attack and damage Saras with crystals. With the own clips I showed of Saras' subordinate, she teleported 3 times in that fight, which isn't "spamming". Most of the fight, she used regular swordsmanship and agility. She even got hit directly with a headbutt attack.

Also, Rarity would have to hit several times in a row to cause critical damage. She's half as strong. So, unless she rushes to Saras and physically hits her, she can't deal damage, and I will personally guarantee Saras won't teleport away from the most obvious attack of the century. Especially if she's as combat smart as you say she is.

A 50% AP difference is hardly much within the realm of this wiki. You can look up threads discussing stomps; it's generally agreed upon that a stomp starts around a x5 AP gap, and if an attack has a x7.5 AP gap then it enters the realm of one-shot. Sarasvati has a x0.54 AP advantage; comparatively, that's nothing. As that level of AP difference, Rarity can absolutely damage Saras. You might be misunderstanding how much (or how little for the wiki) a x0.5 AP difference is.
Being combat-smart doesn't guarantee you will make the correct choice every single second like a robot in a combat scenario, and Saras hasn't fought a crystal user like Rarity before. Also, I don't know why or how you "personally guarantee for Saras" when you don't know the character or series. What are you pulling here?

Like I said, that only applies if the regen can't be beaten easily, not if you can't overcome it at all.

Mid-low regeneration is hardly anything that "can't be overcome", especially when that regeneration isn't instantaneous. You might be overestimating the potency of Mid-low regen?

Not permanently, and can instantly be escaped through teleportation.

That doesn't negate Rarity's option of restraining Sarasvati and then attacking her with crystals. Just because a move is unlikely to succeed, it hardly means it cannot succeed.

How?

You defended Rarity for so long on this thread, and I even concured that Rarity's toolset has the potential to and can work on Sarasvati. Go back to read on your own arguments. What I was arguing was simply that it's hard for it succeed, not that it's impossible.

It can happen, but what I'm saying is it won't enable her to win. Rarity would have to spam punches over and over again while Saras sits there letting it happen. She already is 50% weaker, and her crystal projectiles can't harm comparables or weakers.

That doesn't constitute a stomp or even a part of a stomp. The ability and option for Rarity to use that method is present and can work. It likely won't fully succeed, but it can succeed. The important thing is that as long as something can succeed, then even if that something won't, then it's not a stomp.

If Saras can outlive, then the Omni shield is worthless. Saras can just wait until Rarity dies of old age thanks to her longer lifespan.

That is not a valid victory condition.

Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week, knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.

Also, I was wrong about the Omni shield. I've rewatched the scene a few more times and I noticed she only did this in her pony-up form, which is way stronger and not her base form. So, she can't actually use the Omni shield to begin with due to not being in her key. Evidently. it seems being outlived wasn't Rarity's only problem.

No, you were not wrong. Don't start downplaying your own character to try and force this into a stomp. Here, Rarity clearly uses her omni shield while in human form.

Having no wincons and having no way to use those wincons to win does not a decisive match make.

Not being able to use the wincons to win doesn't constitute a stomp in the other character's favor. If a character has any mode to victory, but they lose due to either not using often enough, or not intensely enough, or it's not in character, or for whatever other reason, then too bad for them.

No, but it means Rarity would have to punch over and over and over again, which isn't happening. Repeated attacks are the only way she can hurt Saras beyond her ability to regenerate. And that won't happen with her teleporting around, flying around, and recovering, Yet another wincon that can't actually be used to win.

That punching example can work, it simply won't because of Saras' agility. Like mentioned above, a stomp is when someone can't win (as in, they have no chance at all, no matter how much you look), not when they just won't. The difference may be subtle, but it's an important one here on this wiki.

I never said it was an AP stomp, but Rarity being less than half as strong means the number of successful attacks she'll have to deal in close range combat basically doubles.
[...]
Not by itself, no, but I wasn't entirely talking about that. And it's not "some" AP gap. Half as strong is a massive detriment. Most people will get their asses handed to them hard if they don't have the skills to make up for it, which Rarity doesn't have, only decent reactions.

Again, within this wiki, a x0.5 AP gap is close to nothing that Rarity cannot ever overcome.

Yeah, just rewatched the video posted by Coolboy. The one showing Rarity using restraining crystals. Rarity was in pony-up form when she used the restaining crystal too. So, she doesn't have access to it in her base. Strike that as another unusable wincon.

Also wrong. They are clearly in human form. Are you intentionally downplaying your character to avoid a loss or what?
A stomp is when someone can't win, not when they just won't.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Even if Rarity really cannot use the omni shield, she still has shields and crystals at her disposal, which still contribute to her having a way of damaging and eventually defeating Sarasvati. Regardless, Rarity can win, but she won't win, because of the results that came out of the debate. Result: the match is decisive, not a stomp.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm just gonna respond to these two things first before anything else.

No, you were not wrong. Don't start downplaying your own character to try and force this into a stomp. Here, Rarity clearly uses her omni shield while in human form.

The very video you claim proves me wrong shows Rarity in her pony-up form. Pony-up form is characterized by having pony ears and the end of their hair having an extension.

This is a powered-up state and cannot be used, and by extension, its abilities. This is very blatantly pony-up form. Pony ear at the top of her head, the end of her hair is extended. I don't give a shit what you feel like calling it, this is a power-up state.

Also wrong. They are clearly in human form. Are you intentionally downplaying your character to avoid a loss or what?
A stomp is when someone can't win, not when they just won't.

Pony ears, hair extended at the end. It's pony-up. If you think this isn't transforming into a different state, you're lying through your teeth. That's as blatant a transformation as it gets. Get off my ass with this "intentional downplay" shit. I pointed it out for a reason.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

That's the differenting part? Oh ok, my bad. The visual differences are quite minor, so it's not obvious.

However, Rarity still has the crystals, shields, and energy projection, and she isn't a newbie in combat either. Still only decisive, not stomp.

 

[Armorchompy]

this doesn't really seem like a stomp to me no

 

[Lightbuster30]

this doesn't really seem like a stomp to me no

Two of Rarities biggest wincons just got nipped hard. Now she's stuck with crystal projectiles that haven't shown the AP to harm comparable characters and crystal shields that can only give her some extra time before ultimately losing. We're talking about a high schooler with decent reflexes, but ultimately zero hand-to-hand, or even general combat training against a centuries-old vampire trained in all sorts of combat. Where is the non-stomp?

 

[Armorchompy]

and energy projection

seems fairly decisive, but not stompy

 

[Lightbuster30]

seems fairly decisive, but not stompy

Energy manipulation comes from crystal projectiles according to her page. As in: The same ones that don't have evidence and even have anti-feats against them scaling to her tier.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Rarity still has the crystal shields, which can be used to block or deflect Saras' attacks, both close and ranged. I think you had linked a clip to a showing of such a thing. Those shields can also be used be push Saras around or buy time. The fact Rarity can do that at all, and also capitalize on the possibility of Saras being caught off to fire crystals at her, directly translates to Rarity being able to fight Saras; it can work. Can work =/= Will work

 

[Armorchompy]

Energy manipulation comes from crystal projectiles according to her page. As in: The same ones that don't have evidence and even have anti-feats against them scaling to her tier.

Even if that was the case, still not a stomp if admittedly slightly unfair.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Energy manipulation comes from crystal projectiles according to her page. As in: The same ones that don't have evidence and even have anti-feats against them scaling to her tier.

What you are talking about (of crystals not doing damage) comes from this clip, where you can't tell me Rarity was seriously using crystals offensively with the intent of harming the other character. Rarity was using that to disrupt the other girl and get away.

 

[Coolboy6]

this doesn't really seem like a stomp to me no

This was concluded either way so it should be closed.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

And that same clip shows Rarity using her crystal shield as a way of negating the other's girls "magic thingy" as they call it. And Saras' elemental powers, could be classified under magic, and even if not, it would work because of the verse equalisation when it comes to similar energies. You can't call that "Rarity has nothing" or "Rarity is helpless"

 

[Lightbuster30]

This was concluded either way so it should be closed.

Not if there's still discussion to be had in other areas. That said I will be unable to comment for maybe 20 minutes. Depends on how long it takes.

 

[Lightbuster30]

And that same clip shows Rarity using her crystal shield as a way of negating the other's girls "magic thingy" as they call it. And Saras' elemental powers, could be classified under magic, and even if not, it would work because of the verse equalisation when it comes to similar energies. You can't call that "Rarity has nothing" or "Rarity is helpless"

It didn't negate anything (Haven't left yet, so still got time). The shield got absorbed each time. Nothing was negated, and being affected by the phone is a direct anti-feat to that idea.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

The other girl says, and I quote "Stop unmagicking my magic thingy". Regardless of what it does, it interfered with that other girl's magic, in some way. Aka, those crystals are perfectly capable of interefering with Sarasvati.

Anyway, like Coolboy said, the match had already reached a conclusion, people had already voted by taking into account our arguments, a victor was decided, and now it's being confirmed that the match wasn't a stomp, only simply decisive for one side. There's not much more point in arguing this.
If the situation was reversed, and Sarasvati was clearly beaten by someone else, that doesn't make it a stomp or right for me to start arguing it's a stomp. In fact, that's what happened in Sarasvati's next round fight. She got soundly beaten by her opponent; outsmarted, outexperienced and outskilled. And that's fine; doesn't make it a stomp, because she had wincons: they simply weren't enough and/or didn't work.

In Naruto Part 1, Neji outexperienced, outskilled, and outpowered Hinata. That doesn't mean Hinata didn't put up a fight. Not a stomp, simply decisive.
In Harry Potter, Snape has shown to outskill, outexperience and outsmart Harry. That doesn't mean Harry can't do anything against Snape with his own spells. Not a stomp, simply decisive.
In very early Pokemon, Ash's Caterpie is outpowered, outskilled and outexperienced by Team Rocket's Koffing and Ekans. Caterpie still managed to incapacitate them and secure Ash's victory. Not a stomp, because Caterpie had a wincon, even if it had a very low chance of succeeding. It ended up succeeding. But even if it had failed, it would still not be a stomp, because Caterpie would have a wincon.
If my childhood friend, who became a professional football player a few years ago, faces against Cristiano Ronaldo, my friend has a low chance of scoring against Ronaldo, but it's not impossibe because he's not useless with a ball at his feet. If I faced Ronaldo, it would be a stomp. But if my friend faces him, it's not a stomp, simply decisive in Ronaldo's favor.

 

[Armorchompy]

In Naruto Part 1, Neji outexperienced, outskilled, and outpowered Hinata. That doesn't mean Hinata didn't put up a fight. Not a stomp, simply decisive.
In Harry Potter, Snape has shown to outskill, outexperience and outsmart Harry. That doesn't mean Harry can't do anything against Snape with his own spells. Not a stomp, simply decisive.
In very early Pokemon, Ash's Caterpie is outpowered, outskilled and outexperienced by Team Rocket's Koffing and Ekans. Caterpie still managed to incapacitate them and secure Ash's victory. Not a stomp, because Caterpie had a wincon, even if it had a very low chance of succeeding. It ended up succeeding. But even if it had failed, it would still not be a stomp, because Caterpie would have a wincon.
If my childhood friend, who became a professional football player a few years ago, faces against Cristiano Ronaldo, my friend has a low chance of scoring against Ronaldo, but it's not impossibe because he's not useless with a ball at his feet. If I faced Ronaldo, it would be a stomp. But if my friend faces him, it's not a stomp, simply decisive in Ronaldo's favor.

I could beat up all those people at once

 

[Lightbuster30]

A character not taking the chance they have at winning or it not being enough, versus them dying before they can even harm the enemy, is completely different. This match enters the 1st category.

I never said Rarity wouldn't take the chance, I'm saying Saras teleportation and intang means she won't get to take the chance, hence it would fall under the latter category.

Sarasvati having teleportation doesn't guarantee Rarity won't hit or restrain her. To begin with, Sarasvati usually starts fighting with her sword, not at ranged. So at that range, Rarity definitely has the opportunity to attack and damage Saras with crystals.

Rarity needs to hit enough though. Just "hitting" isn't good enough. All I'm saying is that teleportation and flying around makes it much harder.

I still don't think the crystals are a wincon. I can only recall two instances of Rarity using them as projectiles and neither of them were really impressive, even ignoring Rarity didn't want to seriously hurt, that doesn't negate that she could have knocked her out or her phone out of her hands with them or even outright destroy the phone as she did later on and neutralize the threat then and there.

An issue I have with them is that as far as I'm aware, those are the only two scenes where she's used them offensively, and neither was particularly impressive. One is a bigger crystal that moves slowly, and the other is a small barrage that doesn't travel far at all. They're used so little, it's hard to properly gauge them.

With the own clips I showed of Saras' subordinate, she teleported 3 times in that fight, which isn't "spamming".

I won't disagree, but I just want to say that the way you described things earlier in the thread gave me a different viewpoint on how she would fight. And while is was only three times, Seras seemed to open with it near the start.

A 50% AP difference is hardly much within the realm of this wiki. You can look up threads discussing stomps; it's generally agreed upon that a stomp starts around a x5 AP gap, and if an attack has a x7.5 AP gap then it enters the realm of one-shot. Sarasvati has a x0.54 AP advantage; comparatively, that's nothing. As that level of AP difference, Rarity can absolutely damage Saras.

I'm not saying she can't damage her with that gap. It's a contributing reason for the match being a stomp. This isn't one single reason, but a bunch of them coming into play at once. I'm saying the gap makes it that much harder for her. If she opens with a teleport attack like Seraphim did, I'm seeing Rarity take critical damage right out the gate, and being half as strong means the damage she takes is that much more serious. Again, not saying it's a one-shot, but it's very worth pointing out.

Being combat-smart doesn't guarantee you will make the correct choice every single second like a robot in a combat scenario,

Never said she would? The skill difference makes landing enough hand-to-hand blows all but impossible if it came to it. This ain't Naruto, where the chunin have undergone training or have actual combat experience. At least those characters are somewhat comparable. I'd like to see how 100 years of combat knowledge can be competed with by a weaker person, with zip. At least those other characters had useful skills, abilities or were good with strategy to make up for the areas they were less skilled in.

What's Rarity got to make up for the ludicrous skill gap? A shield to delay hits, the ability to push it backward, and a small gem barrage? That ain't much from my perspective.

And I'll say again, that even if Rarity gets a couple of lucky hits, she still needs way more than a measly "couple".

and Saras hasn't fought a crystal user like Rarity before.

I can't imagine it'll be that hard to adjust to given Rarity only has two basic attacks with them. She's not King Sombra or anything.

Also, I don't know why or how you "personally guarantee for Saras" when you don't know the character or series. What are you pulling here?

I'm "pulling" what I think makes the most sense in that scenario and based on what little I've been given on the series? Why would I expect any character to sit there and let themselves be hit if they can avoid it? Unless I'm given a reason to assume otherwise, I generally default to assuming the character will try to avoid taking obvious hits.

Mid-low regeneration is hardly anything that "can't be overcome", especially when that regeneration isn't instantaneous. You might be overestimating the potency of Mid-low regen?

I never meant it couldn't be overcome by purely itself. It's a combination of other factors that led me to that conclusion. Ok, then how fast and reliable is it?

That doesn't negate Rarity's option of restraining Sarasvati and then attacking her with crystals. Just because a move is unlikely to succeed, it hardly means it cannot succeed.

Considering she doesn't even have that ability, it's not succeeding in the first place.

You defended Rarity for so long on this thread, and I even concured that Rarity's toolset has the potential to and can work on Sarasvati. Go back to read on your own arguments. What I was arguing was simply that it's hard for it succeed, not that it's impossible.

Man, that was like a month ago. My opinions can change since then, and two major parts of her arsenal aren't even usable.

That doesn't constitute a stomp or even a part of a stomp. The ability and option for Rarity to use that method is present and can work. It likely won't fully succeed, but it can succeed. The important thing is that as long as something can succeed, then even if that something won't, then it's not a stomp.

This is referring to the binding argument, so I'll just say I won't argue since she doesn't have it.

That is not a valid victory condition.

Same as above, but with the dome. I know it'd be easier to just not respond if I think it doesn't matter. but still.

Not being able to use the wincons to win doesn't constitute a stomp in the other character's favor. If a character has any mode to victory,

Not being able to use wincons is the same as not having wincons in the first place. Why should I give a shit if a character "hypothetically" could take someone out if they'll never get the chance to begin with? I don't see Rarities chances. What? A one-off surprise barrage of gems that barley goes outside extended melee, if at all?

Pushing her back with a shield and then having to run many meters to catch up at normal human speed? Give me one reason to assume Saras won't recover in time from being pushed. Not even pushed hard?

 

[Lightbuster30]

The other girl says, and I quote "Stop unmagicking my magic thingy".

Vignette doesn't know shit about magic. I will advise against using anything she says about the shield to reach a conclusion. Hell, just look at your own quote. It's blatant she doesn't know the first thing about what's actually happening.

Regardless of what it does, it interfered with that other girl's magic,

Yes. It took the hit for her and got absorbed into the phone in place of Rarity. This is blatantly what's happening on-screen. Rarity makes shield, Vignette uses the phone camera to try and absorb Rarity, it hits the shield, and absorbs it instead. There you go. That's the extent of "interfering with the magic". It's interfering about as much an actual shield interferes with an incoming arrow.