8-B Avatar (Last Airbender)

[KingEzran]

I've been procrastinating this thread for a long time, but I'm FINALLY doing it! Yaaaay! Alright, so, this thread is grounded on @TheRustyOne 's avatar calc for Aang being 8-B. This calc has been approved, however, there are more characters that should benefit from this. 1: Toph. This is an Earthbending feat, and with Toph known for being equal to or greater than Aang in regards to Earthbending, this would mean that she should likely be taken up to 8-B. 2: Katara. We see in this scene from Book 3 that Katara is comparable to Toph in regards to bending. That being said, Katara should be promoted to 8-B as well. 3-4: Zuko and Azula. In the Agni Kai battle between Zuko and Azula, we see that at this point, Zuko and Azula are just about even. In this, we also see that Azula's bending is more powerful than Katara's. 5-6: Ozai and Iroh. Ozai was still the most powerful fire bender at this time, and was a great threat to Aang, even his earthbending as we see in the fight. And as Zuko said, aside from Aang, Iroh was the only other person they figured could defeat Ozai.

(Note: I'm sure some LOK characters would scale, but I don't know enough about the verse to know who would be amped.)

Characters to be upgraded:

Aang
Toph
Katara
Zuko
Azula
Ozai
Iroh

Scaling chain (at least somewhat accurate

Ozai/Iroh > Azula > Toph/Katara/Aang/Zuko ???

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Aang is only 8-B with firebending due to Sozin's comet

The comet specifically states that it greatly enhances the power of firebending and only it. Meaning his Earthbending during the comet is the same strength as without the comet.

So yeah, the cast aren't 8-B

 

[KingEzran]

Aang is only 8-B with firebending due to Sozin's comet

The comet specifically states that it greatly enhances the power of firebending and only it. Meaning his Earthbending during the comet is the same strength as without the comet.

So yeah, the cast aren't 8-B

It's his earthbending that he uses in the calc. Ik the Sozin Comet doesn't boost his Earthbending. What I'm saying is that throughout Book 3, the cast is 8-B.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Oh thought at first you posted the Firebending 8-B calc. In that case I'll remain neutral for now

 

[KingEzran]

Oh thought at first you posted the Firebending 8-B calc. In that case I'll remain neutral for now

That's why it helps to click links.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Lol

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Base Aang being 8-B in general makes perfect sense to be honest. Earthbending is implied to be Aang's weakest element based on statements from Toph and this is also further elaborated in Legend of Korra based on Tenzin's statement. But despite that, his Earthbending is sort of tough enough to repel blows from Sozen's comet Ozai. But yeah, Toph and Katara are both shown to be superior to Aang in the respective Earth and Water departments yes, so they'd scale accordingly.

As for Zuko and Azula, I do agree 100% they're evenly matched or Zuko might actually be a bit superior. He would have won if Azula hadn't cheated in the last second. Although, they only appear to be 8-B with enhancements from Sozen's comet. When it comes to Team Avatar characters, several of them surpass their masters; Katara eventually surpasses Pakku and becomes the world's strongest water bender, Toph battle Bumi to a draw even before the Sozen's comet war, and she only got much stronger. Yeah, it's amazing how OP Toph has grown in the sequal comics that are currently on going. But Zuko doesn't seem to have the same jump; he and Azula are both still below Jeong Jeong according to some info. But, I can very much guarantee that all the Sozen's comet amped firebenders scale above that.

As for Ozai, actually him being hyped as the strongest firebender was later revealed to be a hyperbole. He's indeed still very powerful, but I'd argue Iroh is just as strong, if not stronger. That being said, neither one of them have reason to be weaker than Pakku or Bumi even without Sozen's comet. And Ozai and Iroh should still be the same tier regardless. Iroh was more concerned that he didn't want to take the Avatar's destiny from him, but it has been shown that he has the better feats overall and is better control over firebending than Ozai.

Also, in addition to stuff in the OP, the Legend of Korra cast should also be upgraded accordingly. I already made mention of Amon, Tarrlok, and Yakone being stronger than young Katara; as their chi is strongest enough to bloodbend without a full moon when Katara's Chi isn't without one. And this can scale to other Korra cast members.

 

[KingEzran]

So you agree with the changes, Medeus?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Base Aang being 8-B in general makes perfect sense to be honest. Earthbending is implied to be Aang's weakest element based on statements from Toph and this is also further elaborated in Legend of Korra based on Tenzin's statement. But despite that, his Earthbending is sort of tough enough to repel blows from Sozen's comet Ozai. But yeah, Toph and Katara are both shown to be superior to Aang in the respective Earth and Water departments yes, so they'd scale accordingly.

As for Zuko and Azula, I do agree 100% they're evenly matched or Zuko might actually be a bit superior. He would have won if Azula hadn't cheated in the last second. Although, they only appear to be 8-B with enhancements from Sozen's comet. When it comes to Team Avatar characters, several of them surpass their masters; Katara eventually surpasses Pakku and becomes the world's strongest water bender, Toph battle Bumi to a draw even before the Sozen's comet war, and she only got much stronger. Yeah, it's amazing how OP Toph has grown in the sequal comics that are currently on going. But Zuko doesn't seem to have the same jump; he and Azula are both still below Jeong Jeong according to some info. But, I can very much guarantee that all the Sozen's comet amped firebenders scale above that.

As for Ozai, actually him being hyped as the strongest firebender was later revealed to be a hyperbole. He's indeed still very powerful, but I'd argue Iroh is just as strong, if not stronger. That being said, neither one of them have reason to be weaker than Pakku or Bumi even without Sozen's comet. And Ozai and Iroh should still be the same tier regardless. Iroh was more concerned that he didn't want to take the Avatar's destiny from him, but it has been shown that he has the better feats overall and is better control over firebending than Ozai.

Also, in addition to stuff in the OP, the Legend of Korra cast should also be upgraded accordingly. I already made mention of Amon, Tarrlok, and Yakone being stronger than young Katara; as their chi is strongest enough to bloodbend without a full moon when Katara's Chi isn't without one. And this can scale to other Korra cast members.

Iirc, Azula is generally superior to Zuko and lost because she was on the verge of going insane at the time

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Iirc, Azula is generally superior to Zuko and lost because she was on the verge of going insane at the time

She wasn't superior, they were dead even in the finale and it was actually Zuko who gained the upper hand on her. Don't forget Zuko also trained and re-learned firebending from the original source (being the dragons)

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

She wasn't superior, they were dead even in the finale and it was actually Zuko who gained the upper hand on her. Don't forget Zuko also trained and re-learned firebending from the original source (being the dragons)

I know, it's just that Azula herself wasn't at her prime, being nearly insane.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Azula was fire superior throughout season 2, but Zuko trained from the Dragons and grew much stronger. And Azula's greatest weapon is more so her art of deception rather than raw power; she no longer beats Zuko in the latter though her firebending is still hotter. And she was slipping mentally due to being on her own when she used to have Mai and Ty Lee by her side.

@KingEzran yes, I agree with the upgrades.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Azula was fire superior throughout season 2, but Zuko trained from the Dragons and grew much stronger. And Azula's greatest weapon is more so her art of deception rather than raw power; she no longer beats Zuko in the latter though her firebending is still hotter. And she was slipping mentally due to being on her own when she used to have Mai and Ty Lee by her side.

@KingEzran yes, I agree with the upgrades.

If so, then what would Sozin comet in terms of tier? Since they are already 8-B as of now

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I would probably just put At least to their current tiers in lack of better options perhaps. I know Firelord Sozen has his own 8-A feat, but I don't think that can directly scale to anyone.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Anyway upgrade makes sense

 

[Arcker123]

I agree

 

[KingEzran]

If so, then what would Sozin comet in terms of tier? Since they are already 8-B as of now

Well, there is nothing to put Sozin's comet higher than 8-B to my knowledge. Although due to the fact that it increases the power of firebenders, who are currently agreed to be 8-B. An "At Least 8-B" or "At Least 8-B, likely higher" would do in my opinion. Since there's only one 8-A feat and as Medeus said, it's not applicable to anyone (aside from Base Roku). All we know is that they are higher than Aang's 35.2 ton feat. However, the 8-B tier definitely has leniancy as it goes up to 100 tons max. So, 8-B will do for now. After all, the series does not give a set multiplier for those enhanced by the comet.

 

[KingEzran]

Let me revise this scaling chain actually...

Ozai/Iroh > Aang > Zuko/Azula > Katara/Toph

While Azula's flames are hotter, as Medeus said, she is not stronger from what we see. I put Aang above Zuko as he was a hope of defeating the Fire Lord, although, he was quite overpowered without the Avatar State. I put Katara and Toph below these two, because Katara's bending seems to be weaker than Azula's, it's just that Katara had better defensive strategy. And in this book, Katara and Toph are dead even...but then this isn't completely accurate since Toph is equal to or greater than Aang in earthbending. It's mainly due to his that I don't know where Toph should be on the scaling chain, since she should be equal to Katara, but also as strong if not stronger than Aang. I can't think of any time she got a power upgrade that would make her stronger than Katara so...the scaling gets a little bit wacky.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Katara was also much more resourceful than Azula despite clearly being much weaker and had the advantage of being sane, while Azula's metal state was literally crumbling

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Toph getting a lot stronger happens in the sequel comics; and she apparently trained herself. I agree Katara has less raw power than Azula, she used tactics combined with Azula being exhausted from fighting Zuko + her infamous mental state. And Aang's firebending does get a lot stronger than his other three elements; like even to the point where he could have redirected his lightning at Ozai and took him out then. But the scaling chain as it is still looks good.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Toph getting a lot stronger happens in the sequel comics; and she apparently trained herself. I agree Katara has less raw power than Azula, she used tactics combined with Azula being exhausted from fighting Zuko + her infamous mental state. And Aang's firebending does get a lot stronger than his other three elements; like even to the point where he could have redirected his lightning at Ozai and took him out then. But the scaling chain as it is still looks good.

If Toph got a lot stronger in the comics, shouldn't she get a new key seperated from her season 3 self

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, no one got around to finding a big list of sequal comics feats or for the cast to get new keys based on those new feats.

 

[KingEzran]

I've always known about the comics, but never known if they were canon, so I didn't exactly bother with them.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

They are canon I think

 

[KingEzran]

Well, the comic and comic feats would probably be for some other CRT. Until then, looks like we've agreed upon 8-B ATLA.

 

[Eficiente]

Just throwing an idea, their bending seems to vary depending how much of the elements they have to mess with.

 

[KingEzran]

Just throwing an idea, their bending seems to vary depending how much of the elements they have to mess with.

I suppose that would provide a reasonable explanation as she had a whole body of water when fighting Toph, but not much against Azula. This definitely makes sense. I agree. I'll let Medeus get comments in here though.

 

[Newendigo]

Yeah, the 8-B feat would probably only be usted when the Earthbenders get a certaib amount of matters. Likely the same case as other elements to variables degrees.

The scaling chain could get really messy from this.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

I'm in favor of 8-B Avatar.

Time to put them up against baseline Demon level threats in OPM lol

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Also RIP Edward's chances of at least beating base Aang with speed equal a̶l̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶w̶n̶

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, even smaller rocks can still be bent with the same amount of kinetic energy; pebbles can hit with just as much force as a boulder if they're a lot faster for instance. Though there are good points that not every element is always assumed equalized; Earthbenders usually have the most raw power but least agile where as airbenders are the opposite. And it is true that benders can be heavily limited when there's little to nothing to bend.

 

[Eficiente]

The first sentence looks like something that should be the case but not necessarily proven in the series. Things like Earthbenders lifting massive things and Katara pushing away a ship while in the ocean surely can't be replicated with far less earth and water if they wanted to do a feat of the same level, Airbenders have used more elaborated techniques and more air than normal to do feats than one would imagine their regular airbending can't do. And everyone's durability speaks for itself.

There's also that one statement in the Kyoshi novel about Avatars in Avatar state being able to mess a landmass or whatever.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The first sentence looks like something that should be the case but not necessarily proven in the series. Things like Earthbenders lifting massive things and Katara pushing away a ship while in the ocean surely can't be replicated with far less earth and water if they wanted to do a feat of the same level, Airbenders have used more elaborated techniques and more air than normal to do feats than one would imagine their regular airbending can't do. And everyone's durability speaks for itself.

There's also that one statement in the Kyoshi novel about Avatars in Avatar state being able to mess a landmass or whatever.

That feat you linked should probably get calced, since that could serve as justifications for the Seaason 3 cast

 

[KingEzran]

That feat you linked should probably get calced, since that could serve as justifications for the Seaason 3 cast

I can probably figure something out. I have a perfect image for the reference of the size of a Fire Nation Cruiser. Frankly, my main problem will be calculating the volume of such an awkward shape.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I can probably figure something out. I have a perfect image for the reference of the size of a Fire Nation Cruiser. Frankly, my main problem will be calculating the volume of such an awkward shape.

Maybe compare it to volume of a real battleship and kind of scale it up/down

 

[KingEzran]

Alright so...there's good and bad news. The good news is that I can probably find the mass of a Fire Nation Cruiser, the bad news is, the models of cruisers vary and the one that I can actually calculate is a completely different model than the one Katara moves. But in the super rare case that somehow all cruisers are the same mass, then that would be another Class M feat for Book 3 Avatar. In fact, it actually wouldn't be too much lower than Aang's Class M earthbending feat. And that's just the body of the ship alone, not even all the cylinders and flags n' stuff on the top. Although, even assuming the mass of these cruisers were the same, the different measurements would cause problems when trying to find something to scale off of for the KE in the separate scene. :/

Most times you see Fire Nation Cruisers, you pretty much only see them from one angle, combine that with the fact that the models are differentiating in most scenes and it's like...pfft, good luck calcing.

Gilad suggested using the measurements of a real battleship. Well, that would be Class M once again, although, I can't get the measurements of the front of the ship, and since that's all that's displayed, I still wouldn't be able to get what I need to calc KE. So, I probably won't be able to calc that KE, but either way you put it, it seems like Katara matches up to Toph once again with both of them at Class M.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, I can think of examples of Toph or other metal benders shooting a pebble at massive speeds; Toph did something like that against Combustion Man. And characters do that all the time via metal bending in Legend of Korra. Yeah, lifting strength is limited to when there's a lot of water or Earth. And yes, most benders are glass cannons without immense focus on their chi, but they can harden their water or Earth barriers a great deal with their Chi.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

bump

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

What's everything looking like so far.